Roon vs. jRiver - Strengths and Weaknesses

[Boomzilla]

This isn't a partisan diatribe - but rather a comparison of relative virtues and shortcomings for anyone who might be trying to evaluate the two products. I've used both for long enough to have encountered their relative strengths and weaknesses, and share comments in hopes that they might be of use to others.

The limitations of this commentary, obviously, are that the features that are of value to me may not be those that you're looking for, specifically. But I don't doubt that other Roon and jRiver users will contribute their experiences as well.

Both products are mature, well designed, and both beloved and hated by the audio public. Each product has its unique mix of features.

ROON:

The Roon system costs either $119 as an annual subscription or $499 for a lifetime membership. This feature alone may stop some potential users, who feel that the cost is excessive. But with that cost comes a variety of perks including:

A formal service department with competent and relatively quick response (to some customers, this feature alone may justify the cost)
An in-depth and informative trove of data about the artist, the background of the music, and the recording
Intelligent automatic music selection of similar music from online services such as TIDAL or Spotify providing "internet radio" of music similar to that which you've previously played
A proprietary Ethernet streaming method (RAAT) that seems superior to generic DLNA
Multiple support for different devices simultaneously, allowing different music to be played in various rooms of the household
Full wireless support

The major shortcomings that I'd attribute to Roon (and, like the perks above, these may or may not apply to you) include:

Higher cost
Lack of a built-in CD-ripping function
Significantly weaker support for OS-X than for Windows
Requires Roon-ready hardware
Fewer customization functions than its competitor (but also easier to use)

JRIVER:

Currently in "Media Center 24" version, the jRiver product costs $59.98 (a one-time expense for OS-X, Windows, or Linuxº or $79.98 (a cross-platform "multi-license"). J-River periodically updates their software, and to get the latest version, upgrade fees are charged. But updates are not mandatory, and if one sees no features of interest in a specific upgrade, the existing version will continue working.

J-River's virtues include:

Lower cost
High flexibility including settings for almost everything
Designed to manage all media including video
Much broader hardware compatibility
Whole-house support via zones
Included disc-ripper with broad CODEC support

The shortcomings that I'm aware of include:

No formal support - an online Wiki and forum are the only resources
More complicated to master than Roon
Some of the customization options don't work or create unexpected side effects
Less integrated support for intelligent internet radio
DLNA Ethernet streaming can revert to lower quality MP3 without warning
Significantly weaker support for OS-X than for Windows

And the winner is? Sorry - it's not that simple. The choice between Roon and jRiver will have to be an individual one based on the features that are important to you. Since both offer trial periods, feel free to compare and contrast yourself. I'd think that for the tweaker personality, jRiver would offer more options to control the output, but for the "just play me some music" person, the Roon option might seem more attractive.

There are also a variety of other options on the market, but these are the two that I've spent the most time with. So rather than to open the thread to "a mile wide and an inch deep," consider adding your comments regarding Roon and jRiver (only). This isn't a popularity contest, so just because a majority of those on this Lounge prefer one or the other of these two products doesn't mean necessarily that that product is for YOU. Once you get over the initial learning curve, both products have things to offer (or not) that can tailor them to your needs.

Happy shopping - Boomzilla

[foggy1956]

Dec 30, 2018 6:50:26 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

This isn't a partisan diatribe - but rather a comparison of relative virtues and shortcomings for anyone who might be trying to evaluate the two products. I've used both for long enough to have encountered their relative strengths and weaknesses, and share comments in hopes that they might be of use to others.

The limitations of this commentary, obviously, are that the features that are of value to me may not be those that you're looking for, specifically. But I don't doubt that other Roon and jRiver users will contribute their experiences as well.

Both products are mature, well designed, and both beloved and hated by the audio public. Each product has its unique mix of features.

ROON:

The Roon system costs either $119 as an annual subscription or $499 for a lifetime membership. This feature alone may stop some potential users, who feel that the cost is excessive. But with that cost comes a variety of perks including:

A formal service department with competent and relatively quick response (to some customers, this feature alone may justify the cost)
An in-depth and informative trove of data about the artist, the background of the music, and the recording
Intelligent automatic music selection of similar music from online services such as TIDAL or Spotify providing "internet radio" of music similar to that which you've previously played
A proprietary Ethernet streaming method (RAAT) that seems superior to generic DLNA
Multiple support for different devices simultaneously, allowing different music to be played in various rooms of the household
Full wireless support

The major shortcomings that I'd attribute to Roon (and, like the perks above, these may or may not apply to you) include:

Higher cost
Lack of a built-in CD-ripping function
Significantly weaker support for OS-X than for Windows
Requires Roon-ready hardware
Fewer customization functions than its competitor (but also easier to use)

JRIVER:

Currently in "Media Center 24" version, the jRiver product costs $59.98 (a one-time expense for OS-X, Windows, or Linuxº or $79.98 (a cross-platform "multi-license"). J-River periodically updates their software, and to get the latest version, upgrade fees are charged. But updates are not mandatory, and if one sees no features of interest in a specific upgrade, the existing version will continue working.

J-River's virtues include:

Lower cost
High flexibility including settings for almost everything
Designed to manage all media including video
Much broader hardware compatibility
Whole-house support via zones
Included disc-ripper with broad CODEC support

The shortcomings that I'm aware of include:

No formal support - an online Wiki and forum are the only resources
More complicated to master than Roon
Some of the customization options don't work or create unexpected side effects
Less integrated support for intelligent internet radio
DLNA Ethernet streaming can revert to lower quality MP3 without warning
Significantly weaker support for OS-X than for Windows

And the winner is? Sorry - it's not that simple. The choice between Roon and jRiver will have to be an individual one based on the features that are important to you. Since both offer trial periods, feel free to compare and contrast yourself. I'd think that for the tweaker personality, jRiver would offer more options to control the output, but for the "just play me some music" person, the Roon option might seem more attractive.

There are also a variety of other options on the market, but these are the two that I've spent the most time with. So rather than to open the thread to "a mile wide and an inch deep," consider adding your comments regarding Roon and jRiver (only). This isn't a popularity contest, so just because a majority of those on this Lounge prefer one or the other of these two products doesn't mean necessarily that that product is for YOU. Once you get over the initial learning curve, both products have things to offer (or not) that can tailor them to your needs.

Happy shopping - Boomzilla

I appreciate the way jriver handles all my audio and video through a single app, my HTPC defaults to jriver in the theater view GUI on startup which is very easy to use once jriver is set up.  The Red October filters also seem to do a wonderful job of rendering video although it takes some time to tune do to all the various options.

[klinemj]

Boomzilla

I will add one more shortcoming of jRiver.

Their customer service is very bad, as are the manners of the owner who personally deals with anything that goes beyond the realm of their forum.

I'll share my example as a warning to others. I upgraded to v24 from v18 based on them saying it would support Tidal and streaming of Tidal. When I got v24, those features didn't work but I was assured they did and that it was just a matter of settings. I kept trying to make it work - to no avail. My 30 day clock was ticking, but they kept saying either that it worked fine or that they were working on a fix. They eventually admitted that it did not work for either feature I wanted and said they were not sure if it ever would. I asked for a refund, and the owner got pissy with me saying:
1) They don't issue refunds.
2) That I'm an idiot because if I understood the fundamentals of how their system worked, I would know that what I was asking for was technically impossible (despite their own wiki saying it should do what I expected...and even the owners said it would do it on their forum).
3) That me saying anything at all about the issue on their forum (which was the only way to get support since they have no way to reach out privately for support) was a violation of forum rules and therefore he banned me for 24 hours and erased anything from me that could be seen as remotely negative toward the product not working as promised.

The owner refused my request for a refund after all that, so I challenged the charge on my credit card and won.

I'll never use their product again, nor will I ever use any products for which the owner is involved in any way.

Mark

[wilburthegoose]

^^^
This

[foggy1956]

Dec 30, 2018 8:36:53 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Boomzilla

I will add one more shortcoming of jRiver.

Their customer service is very bad, as are the manners of the owner who personally deals with anything that goes beyond the realm of their forum.

I'll share my example as a warning to others. I upgraded to v24 from v18 based on them saying it would support Tidal and streaming of Tidal. When I got v24, those features didn't work but I was assured they did and that it was just a matter of settings. I kept trying to make it work - to no avail. My 30 day clock was ticking, but they kept saying either that it worked fine or that they were working on a fix. They eventually admitted that it did not work for either feature I wanted and said they were not sure if it ever would. I asked for a refund, and the owner got pissy with me saying:
1) They don't issue refunds.
2) That I'm an idiot because if I understood the fundamentals of how their system worked, I would know that what I was asking for was technically impossible (despite their own wiki saying it should do what I expected...and even the owners said it would do it on their forum).
3) That me saying anything at all about the issue on their forum (which was the only way to get support since they have no way to reach out privately for support) was a violation of forum rules and therefore he banned me for 24 hours and erased anything from me that could be seen as remotely negative toward the product not working as promised.

The owner refused my request for a refund after all that, so I challenged the charge on my credit card and won.

I'll never use their product again, nor will I ever use any products for which the owner is involved in any way.

Mark

Isn't big Dan involved in Emotiva?

[klinemj]

foggy1956 Yes, Big Dan is involved in Emotiva, but I am referring to jRiver...and he's got nothing to do with them, at least as far as I know.

Mark

[emofrmcgy]

Dec 30, 2018 9:58:19 GMT -5 foggy1956 said:

Dec 30, 2018 8:36:53 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Boomzilla

I will add one more shortcoming of jRiver.

Their customer service is very bad, as are the manners of the owner who personally deals with anything that goes beyond the realm of their forum.

I'll share my example as a warning to others. I upgraded to v24 from v18 based on them saying it would support Tidal and streaming of Tidal. When I got v24, those features didn't work but I was assured they did and that it was just a matter of settings. I kept trying to make it work - to no avail. My 30 day clock was ticking, but they kept saying either that it worked fine or that they were working on a fix. They eventually admitted that it did not work for either feature I wanted and said they were not sure if it ever would. I asked for a refund, and the owner got pissy with me saying:
1) They don't issue refunds.
2) That I'm an idiot because if I understood the fundamentals of how their system worked, I would know that what I was asking for was technically impossible (despite their own wiki saying it should do what I expected...and even the owners said it would do it on their forum).
3) That me saying anything at all about the issue on their forum (which was the only way to get support since they have no way to reach out privately for support) was a violation of forum rules and therefore he banned me for 24 hours and erased anything from me that could be seen as remotely negative toward the product not working as promised.

The owner refused my request for a refund after all that, so I challenged the charge on my credit card and won.

I'll never use their product again, nor will I ever use any products for which the owner is involved in any way.

Mark

Isn't big Dan involved in Emotiva?

LMAO!!!!

I’ve had great experiences with jriver. None of the shortcomings affect me in any way. It worked perfectly for the year or so I used it on my windoze pc.

[DYohn]

I tried JRiver. Hated it.

[foggy1956]

Dec 30, 2018 10:10:11 GMT -5 klinemj said:

foggy1956 Yes, Big Dan is involved in Emotiva, but I am referring to jRiver...and he's got nothing to do with them, at least as far as I know.

Mark

But you stated, "nor will I use any product in which the owner is involved."

[foggy1956]

Dec 30, 2018 10:21:06 GMT -5 DYohn said:

I tried JRiver. Hated it.

Glad Boom said this wasn't a popularity contest😂

[adaboy]

Dec 30, 2018 10:25:05 GMT -5 foggy1956 said:

Dec 30, 2018 10:10:11 GMT -5 klinemj said:

foggy1956 Yes, Big Dan is involved in Emotiva, but I am referring to jRiver...and he's got nothing to do with them, at least as far as I know.

Mark

But you stated, "nor will I use any product in which the owner is involved."

Are you saying Big Dan has a stake in jRiver?

[foggy1956]

Dec 30, 2018 10:28:13 GMT -5 adaboy said:

Dec 30, 2018 10:25:05 GMT -5 foggy1956 said:

But you stated, "nor will I use any product in which the owner is involved."

Are you saying Big Dan has a stake in jRiver?

Not at all

[adaboy]

Dec 30, 2018 10:46:03 GMT -5 foggy1956 said:

Dec 30, 2018 10:28:13 GMT -5 adaboy said:

Are you saying Big Dan has a stake in jRiver?

Not at all

Oh ok I'm so confused. At first I thought it was a hilarious dig at emotiva but then I was like maybe this wasn't satirical.

Can you help me out with this one?

[foggy1956]

Dec 30, 2018 10:49:17 GMT -5 adaboy said:

Dec 30, 2018 10:46:03 GMT -5 foggy1956 said:

Not at all

Oh ok I'm so confused. At first I thought it was a hilarious dig at emotiva but then I was like maybe this wasn't satirical.

Can you help me out with this one?

I misread Mark's statement as, he would not by any product in which an onwer was involved, not the owner of jriver

[Boomzilla]

I've an audio bud whose stated goal has been to "master" all the the jRiver settings. He thinks that his tweaking has tuned jRiver to the shining pinnacle of audio goodness. And, knowing him as well as I do, he may be right. He seriously obsesses over these things and jRiver is the "tweaker's Paradise."

I need to arrange a visit soon to hear what he's done and to see how. Should his settings do what he claims, I'll ask if I can copy them and post them here for you all to try. But he's more likely to swear me to secrecy... LOL

Having beaten the learning curve of both Roon & jRiver, I don't really mind switching back and forth. I already have both jRemote and Roon Remote installed on my iPad, so I can control either program from the living room. I haven't tried running both server programs simultaneously on my Mac Mini, and I'm somewhat reluctant to try (they may both want some of the same resources, and be crash prone). Or even worse, should they corrupt the data drive...

One way it might work would be to connect the main data HDD (an external, USB-3 4TB number) to Roon and then connect the backup (an external RAID-10, 4TB unit) to jRiver. Has anyone else tried to simultaneously run the two programs?

That's the only way I can think of to directly and conveniently compare "Roon-sound" to "jRiver-sound."

And for what it's worth, I understood klinemj clearly on his first post - that may be a scary thing...

Happy New Year, y'all!

Boomzilla

[RichGuy]

Dec 30, 2018 10:21:06 GMT -5 DYohn said:

I tried JRiver. Hated it.

My first couple of experiences with JRiver I hated it, I later tried it again and have loved it ever since.

I only use JRiver for music and use Theater View, this is my preferred way to listen to my music both for sound quality and user interface.

[foggy1956]

Dec 30, 2018 13:50:46 GMT -5 RichGuy said:

Dec 30, 2018 10:21:06 GMT -5 DYohn said:

I tried JRiver. Hated it.

My first couple of experiences with JRiver I hated it, I later tried it again and have loved it ever since.

I only use JRiver for music and use Theater View, this is my preferred way to listen to my music both for sound quality and user interface.

Curious, what if anything, do you use for video?

[RichGuy]

Dec 30, 2018 8:36:53 GMT -5 klinemj said:

I'll never use their product again, nor will I ever use any products for which the owner is involved in any way.

Mark

For those confused, I believe he is saying he will not use any product which the "owner of JRiver is involved" not a product which the owner of a company is involved.

[RichGuy]

Dec 30, 2018 13:56:35 GMT -5 foggy1956 said:

Dec 30, 2018 13:50:46 GMT -5 RichGuy said:

My first couple of experiences with JRiver I hated it, I later tried it again and have loved it ever since.

I only use JRiver for music and use Theater View, this is my preferred way to listen to my music both for sound quality and user interface.

Curious, what if anything, do you use for video?

Blu-ray & DVD I prefer using my Oppo 203, for TV I use a very modified & customized Windows Media Center, for streaming I use various sources one of my favorites is Amazon Prime. For instance I've found HBO works better on Amazon Prime than through HBO's own streaming.

[foggy1956]

Dec 30, 2018 14:09:15 GMT -5 RichGuy said:

Dec 30, 2018 13:56:35 GMT -5 foggy1956 said:

Curious, what if anything, do you use for video?

Blu-ray & DVD I prefer using my Oppo 203, for TV I use a very modified & customized Windows Media Center, for streaming I use various sources one of my favorites is Amazon Prime.

Thanks, I use the Oppo for discs but prefer the jriver interface over the Oppo's for movies stored on my Nas