New power cord for XPA-DR2

[valicu2000]

Hello all!

I'm planning a power cord upgrade for my XPA-DR2 and I'm simply blown away by reviews, some of the products aren't either available locally. What would best suit from the following list:

Furutech Absolute Power-18

PS Audio PerfectWave AC-5

ZAVFINO Legion

... any other from the list here: stereoplanet.ro/alimentare/cabluri_alimentare/1_2_2_0_m&page=1

Soon XSP-1 will arrive and I'll do the same operation for it, but I guess I will go for a lower cost cable like Furutech G-314Ag-15Plus-E ... or am I wrong?

Which of the preamplifier and power amplifier needs which kind of cable? The beefier and expensive one for the power amplifier and the cheaper one for the preamp ... or vice-versa?

Other details:

- they are using 230V (because Europe)

- I mostly listen to electronic music, but I really enjoy sometimes to listen jazz and vocals

- 99% of time I play music from my PC through an iFi Micro iUSB 3.0 reclocker (which doesn't sound as good on speakers as it does on headphones)

- at the moment my setup sounds kind of bright and the sound doesn't have enough depth and stage

Thank you very much!

[leonski]

One of the PANGEA series:

www.upscaleaudio.com/products/pangea-audio-ac-14se-mkii-power-cord

The 14ga. 'SE' version is probably adequate. Though Pangea DOES make a 9 ga. as well.

I would AVOID anything smaller than 14 for a power amp. If the amp shipped with something awful like 16, it needs to be replaced sooner than later.
For a high-power amp? 12 becomes the minimum.

Make certain you have a DEDICATED 20 amp circuit, while you're at it.

If you are in the LEAST handy, you can also DIY several versions of known designs. They mainly use BELDEN cable.
The 83803 is a premium, 2X shielded 3 conductor in 12 ga.
The 19364 is a premium 2X shielded 3 conductor in 14 ga.

Differences in tinning / insulation exist, but BOTH have a large fan base. the 12ga. is $$$ but if you want some, maybe we can do a GROUP BUY with some others and save a bunch.
The 14ga is far less $$$.

Than you need to worry about ends for the cables.     And what standards exist wherever you live.

I have a DacMagicPlus and know your 'brightness' doesnt' start THERE.

[goldenear2]

Anticable Level 3 Reference
anticables.com/power-cords#!/Level-3-Reference-Series-Power-Cords/p/14644872/category=3461168

[valicu2000]

Thank you, guys!

First of all I prefer not to buy from USA, I'm from Romania, Europe and besides the fact that it will take ages for it to arrive, there's also a customs fee.

leonski: I have a 20 amp circuit for that specific room, but since I live in a flat I also have a computer and a monitor plugged in separate wall outlets (but on same circuit). The current OEM cable is 13 ga and I intend to go for 11 ga or 10 ga for XPA-DR2 ... and I don't want to mess around with DIY stuff, I just want to keep it simple.

I need to choose a cable from here:

stereoplanet.ro/alimentare/cabluri_alimentare/1_2_2_0_m&page=1

... preferably from the first 4 pages because I don't want to invest in a cable more than 20% of the XPA-DR2's retail price. Thank you!

[Loop 7]

Pangea

[RichGuy]

Build your own, power cables are very easy to make.

diyaudioprojects.com/Power/diyMains/

[leonski]

I don't offhand know the correct plug for Romania, but you ARE 230vac and 50hz.
You don't need the 'amps' to get the 'watts' which is Volts X Amps. (P = I E)
So, a 10 amp draw is actually as much power as a 20 amp draw from the USA with 1/2 the voltage.

Keep in mind that you are also probably DERATED about 20% for long-term draw.

You should be able to source materials for DIY from either Germany or the UK.

I don't trust the MAIL in Italy.

Under the vast majority of conditions, I would NOT blame the power cord for system brightness.
I'd look instead to basic things like setup and THE ROOM which is most of what you're hearing, anyway.
Can I presume your speaker PHASE is correct? What you describe sounds like speakers wired incorrectly.
Poor image and lack of 'stage'.

I'm also suspicious of ANY reclocker device, especially one which sounds better with headphones over speakers....or vice-versa.

One last point?    Here in the US, we have mainly 'even' number gauge for conductors.    Most house wiring will  be 12 or 14 with a smattering of 10 and
perhaps larger for dedicated circuits for HIGH CURRENT stuff like cloths dryers and whole-house Air Conditioning.   
In no case should you go thinner (higher number) for your amp.   And 14 or whatever is FINE for low-current devices like preamps and CD players......

[valicu2000]

leonski: Yeah, I know that the power amp needs a hefty cable. Luckily my speakers are efficient (~94 dBA) and they don't draw too much power (I've never went with the volume past 50%). With the DIY cable is too much hassle for nothing ... I could save something like $20 on a $350 cable ... not worth, not now.

The whole electric circuit in the flat was redone 2 years ago using 10ga copper wire on ALL wall outlets, so it's safe.

The problem with the brightness occurs on different days ... I listen to the same song 2-3 days and in the 4th there's brightness/harshness to it. Now if I think, it could be the Emotiva PT-100 preamplifier ... If I stand very close to the speakers I can hear a constant hiss when there's no music. That hiss has a constant volume ... perhaps because there's no grounding to the preamp?

[rbk123]

Get something you can return if you find out it makes little to no difference. Research and spend your time/money on room treatments.

[405x5]

Jan 5, 2019 11:53:36 GMT -5 valicu2000 said:

Hello all!

I'm planning a power cord upgrade for my XPA-DR2 and I'm simply blown away by reviews, some of the products aren't either available locally. What would best suit from the following list:

Furutech Absolute Power-18

PS Audio PerfectWave AC-5

ZAVFINO Legion

... any other from the list here: stereoplanet.ro/alimentare/cabluri_alimentare/1_2_2_0_m&page=1

Soon XSP-1 will arrive and I'll do the same operation for it, but I guess I will go for a lower cost cable like Furutech G-314Ag-15Plus-E ... or am I wrong?

Which of the preamplifier and power amplifier needs which kind of cable? The beefier and expensive one for the power amplifier and the cheaper one for the preamp ... or vice-versa?

Other details:

- they are using 230V (because Europe)

- I mostly listen to electronic music, but I really enjoy sometimes to listen jazz and vocals

- 99% of time I play music from my PC through an iFi Micro iUSB 3.0 reclocker (which doesn't sound as good on speakers as it does on headphones)

- at the moment my setup sounds kind of bright and the sound doesn't have enough depth and stage

Thank you very much!

The complaints you describe about the sound you’re getting have all to do with loudspeakers and their placement, the room architecture, floor and wall treatments, etc.
Much can be done to improve on the sound but swapping out a wire is no solution.

Bill

[leonski]

I wonder.......You are in a flat which means you are IN PART subject to what your neighbors do.
I know my (now gone) Plasma TV would issue RFI which would interfere with AM Radio to at least 8 to 10 meters.
Is it possible you have a neighbor who is causing some interference or YOU have an appliance or light (fluorescent is implicated)
which causes such interference?
Could YOU have something turning on or off which is source of interference?

You also have a fairly powerful amp connected to high sensitivity speakers. I'm generally not on board with that approach.

Does the problem occur with EITHER the A-300 or the DR2?

[valicu2000]

405x5 : I don't think there's absolutely no benefit going from the stock power cord to a better one ... wall treatments will follow. The issue doesn't occur every day.

leonski : I've switched all my lightning to LEDs, no damn fluorescent tube in this house. I've read about this problem when I had two A-300s in bi-amping and one of them had an internal modem-like noise (which wasn't reproduced at the local store). It's very possible to have a neighbor with such installation ... I don't know, can't ask them. This room is the farthest from the circuit breaker (around 15 - 20 meters of cabling length), shouldn't be there some attenuation for such issues?. I also suspect the PT-100.

"You also have a fairly powerful amp connected to high sensitivity speakers. I'm generally not on board with that approach." ... well, what can you recommend?

Yeah, the A-300 used to sound brighter in some days. Of course there was no messing with cables or settings ... the only idea that comes in my head is the PC from where I'm playing music - I didn't tried playing other source in the bright sounding days .

Thank you!

[405x5]

Jan 6, 2019 13:38:18 GMT -5 valicu2000 said:

405x5 : I don't think there's absolutely no benefit going from the stock power cord to a better one ... wall treatments will follow. The issue doesn't occur every day.

Well, there certainly is no topic that has been mercilessly beaten back into the earth more than this one!
I would not try to convince you one way or the other, should you feel in your mind you can gain something with a new wire, however, I can tell by what you've written, you have been sucker punched by that part of the industry, that puts fancy names on wires and somehow gets folks to bend over and grab their ankles. 
You see, the problem here is, there is no such thing as a "better one" if the electrical connections are properly made and the resistance is correct for the application.

Bill

[garbulky]

This may not gel with your plans but I reccommend no upgrade. Use it for something that makes a difference like room treatments or a nice headphone amp (basx a-100)

[leonski]

If I may be permitted the opposite, in some ways, opinion and to stake out some more rational 'middle ground'?

Yes, some power cordage is priced to ridiculous levels. And the advertising / claims are either so esoteric you need a degree in Quantum Physics to make a Stab at understanding the claims or forget it.

Still and all, some high power amps are shipped with Inadequate cordage. A 300 a side amp shipping with a 14ga cord? Or a monoblock which is spec'd to require a 20 amp service that comes with a 14 or 16?

The middle ground is 2 pronged.
Fundamentals. Cord must have enough capacity for WORST CASE current demand. Also? Shielded, while controversial, may help. And grounded ONLY at the outlet end, not both ends.
Costing must be reasonable and SHOULD be. Belden 83603, a premium 12x3 with double shield goes about 10$ per foot, if you buy 100 feet. (can you say Group Buy?) while the more modes 14x3 with similar specs is
MUCH less $$ and should work for ALL low current devices from CD players to DAC to Preamp. Even amps of 150 a side or less?
While ALL competently made cordage should be very low resistance, especially since we are NOT worried about huge lengths, it is the IR drop......that matters.

IF you were an amplifier manufacturer you'd consider the cost / value of the included power cord.   You wouldn't go for the high priced unless you charged Extra.   But opinions are 
so far all over the place that would be a waste.   Instead, I'd include a functional piece KNOWING that many buyers would change the cord to suit themselves.   

Take your huge monoblocks and low sensitivity speakers. Play it LOUD for an hour or so. I'll bet you could warm the plug end.......a real bad sign.

It's tough to have too much current AVAILABLE when talking powerful and multi-channel amps. I know in the old days, my Carver Cube of 2x200 (@8) would flicker the house lights in time to the music. Bad idea.

Has everyone gone over to my poll on power outlets / circuits?     Please add YOUR information so we get enough data.      My opinion is that it is nearly impossible to have Too Much available power.....

[Ex_Vintage]

Jan 6, 2019 17:16:25 GMT -5 leonski said:

If I may be permitted the opposite, in some ways, opinion and to stake out some more rational 'middle ground'?

Yes, some power cordage is priced to ridiculous levels. And the advertising / claims are either so esoteric you need a degree in Quantum Physics to make a Stab at understanding the claims or forget it.

Still and all, some high power amps are shipped with Inadequate cordage. A 300 a side amp shipping with a 14ga cord? Or a monoblock which is spec'd to require a 20 amp service that comes with a 14 or 16?

The middle ground is 2 pronged.
Fundamentals. Cord must have enough capacity for WORST CASE current demand. Also? Shielded, while controversial, may help. And grounded ONLY at the outlet end, not both ends.
Costing must be reasonable and SHOULD be. Belden 83603, a premium 12x3 with double shield goes about 10$ per foot, if you buy 100 feet. (can you say Group Buy?) while the more modes 14x3 with similar specs is
MUCH less $$ and should work for ALL low current devices from CD players to DAC to Preamp. Even amps of 150 a side or less?
While ALL competently made cordage should be very low resistance, especially since we are NOT worried about huge lengths, it is the IR drop......that matters.

IF you were an amplifier manufacturer you'd consider the cost / value of the included power cord.   You wouldn't go for the high priced unless you charged Extra.   But opinions are 
so far all over the place that would be a waste.   Instead, I'd include a functional piece KNOWING that many buyers would change the cord to suit themselves.   

Take your huge monoblocks and low sensitivity speakers. Play it LOUD for an hour or so. I'll bet you could warm the plug end.......a real bad sign.

It's tough to have too much current AVAILABLE when talking powerful and multi-channel amps. I know in the old days, my Carver Cube of 2x200 (@8) would flicker the house lights in time to the music. Bad idea.

Has everyone gone over to my poll on power outlets / circuits?     Please add YOUR information so we get enough data.      My opinion is that it is nearly impossible to have Too Much available power.....

That is unless you want to spend large quantities of $ for no gain. Reducing voltage drop by a volt or 2 will not improve your sound. Filtering is by far the best value if you have interference issues.

[leonski]

If you purchase by fundamentals, NO need for large outlay. COST at the OEM level would be minimal but would add to the final cost.....

RFI can enter many places. LONG power cords is but one place and won't necessarily be fixed by power conditioner.
Or even an isolation transformer.

See if you might agree if you look at it from the amp manufacturers viewpoint. At higher costs, the cords don't necessarily get better
But you might be more likely to swap for better.
Even if a 15x more expensive set of Pass Labs Monos came witha 15x more costly cord, it would still be <100$ worth.

[RichGuy]

Power cables can be improved but there is no reason to spend hundreds of dollars. Here is the main things to consider.

1. Proper gauge wire for the component.

2. Using larger wire than what is in your wall is useless you can use 14awg, 12awg or 10awg wire depending on your system, the component you're connecting and what wire is already in your wall. There is no need to make your power cable larger wire than what is in your walls.

3. A quality shielded wire can help your power cable from both picking up unwanted noise and also keep it from transferring noise to other wires and components in your system. The wire in your walls are not shielded but those wires are in your walls and not running next to your wires and system components. For best results shielded power cables and a good power conditioner help to clean noise picked up before your system and then keep it clean.

4. Quality snug fitting connectors.

5. Keep cables the proper length with no loops or tangled messes of wire acting like antennas to attract or transmit noise.

6. What power cables can change in your system is an improvement in the noise floor, less unwanted noise with a possible slight improvement in detail because of the lower noise floor. Power cables will not change the sound as far as warmth / brightness etc, they won't improve sound in general but can help by keeping the sound at its best by keeping unwanted noise out of your system.

Building your own should not cost very much, connectors typically can be had on average $10 - $20 each sometimes IEC connectors may be a little more. Good shielded wire $3.00 - $10.00 a foot. If you want to make them look very nice this can be done using Tech Flex braided sleeving and heat shrink tubing.

Building your own quality power cables is very easy, connectors need only a small screw driver to install, no soldering is needed. Very nice power cables can be made starting at around $30 - $40 for short lengths and a little more when long lengths are needed.

[leonski]

Jan 7, 2019 1:46:00 GMT -5 RichGuy said:

Power cables can be improved but there is no reason to spend hundreds of dollars. Here is the main things to consider.

1. Proper gauge wire for the component.

2. Using larger wire than what is in your wall is useless you can use 14awg, 12awg or 10awg wire depending on your system, the component you're connecting and what wire is already in your wall. There is no need to make your power cable larger wire than what is in your walls.

3. A quality shielded wire can help your power cable from both picking up unwanted noise and also keep it from transferring noise to other wires and components in your system. The wire in your walls are not shielded but those wires are in your walls and not running next to your wires and system components. For best results shielded power cables and a good power conditioner help to clean noise picked up before your system and then keep it clean.

4. Quality snug fitting connectors.

5. Keep cables the proper length with no loops or tangled messes of wire acting like antennas to attract or transmit noise.

6. What power cables can change in your system is an improvement in the noise floor, less unwanted noise with a possible slight improvement in detail because of the lower noise floor. Power cables will not change the sound as far as warmth / brightness etc, they won't improve sound in general but can help by keeping the sound at its best by keeping unwanted noise out of your system.

Building your own should not cost very much, connectors typically can be had on average $10 - $20 each sometimes IEC connectors may be a little more. Good shielded wire $3.00 - $10.00 a foot. If you want to make them look very nice this can be done using Tech Flex braided sleeving and heat shrink tubing.

Building your own quality power cables is very easy, connectors need only a small screw driver to install, no soldering is needed. Very nice power cables can be made starting at around $30 - $40 for short lengths and a little more when long lengths are needed.

Substantially agree.
No real need for megabucks.   And as it turns out, if you can swing it or do a group buy?    You can get some pretty good value cooking, too.
At the 10$ per foot level (100 feet min) you can get Belden 83603 which is a 12-3 with double shield......
I'm not a big fan of 'cable as tone control' either.    What a crap-shoot THAT is.

Anybody up for a group buy?