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Post by Bonzo on Feb 18, 2019 21:07:54 GMT -5
What I see is something I said several years ago coming true, that 4K discs will be the last physical disc format. Once 4K streaming becomes the norm, thats it. I wouldn't mind it so much if TV would / could adopt the higher rez sounds to go along with it. The fact that most TV is still only sent out as DD 5.1 is pathetic. Until 8k TVs become the norm and money can be made on 8k players and discs. Seriously, if streaming is going to be it, I want the best quality pic and sound possible. Can we have that? I want it too, but I don't think we will get it. Best case it will be a niche. At least in my opinion. I'm not happy about it. I would be very happy to be wrong. |
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Post by Loop 7 on Feb 18, 2019 21:29:02 GMT -5
1080p streaming, if one has excellent broadband, can look REALLY good but I think the lossy music model that took over CDs may happening to Blu-ray ---- most consumers feel it's good enough.
Note: Blu-ray discs are still compressed (uncompressed 4k movies would involve terabytes) but I assume not as much as streaming.
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Post by Loop 7 on Feb 18, 2019 22:02:21 GMT -5
Which companies are still manufacturing Blu-ray capable drives? To clarify, companies actually making the drives, not counting those companies who make BRD players using third party drives.
Panasonic and LG? Or, are there more?
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Post by wilburthegoose on Feb 19, 2019 8:45:40 GMT -5
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Post by rbk123 on Feb 19, 2019 9:33:45 GMT -5
Regular DVD's account for 57% of all disk purchases; that says a lot.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 19, 2019 10:54:34 GMT -5
An industry insider (my company is part of the semiconductor and display manufacturing industry) tells me that 8K will never be more than a display technology. There are no plans for 8K content by anyone. Indeed, the value of 4K content is being questioned with the advent of better and faster up-scaling engines built into 4K displays.
Samsung pulling out of BRD and UHD player manufacturing is a big deal. I believe they are third in the market and they manufacture for several brands.
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Post by mgbpuff on Feb 19, 2019 11:59:53 GMT -5
The press release I read said they are pulling out of the U.S. market only. What does that imply? _____ tariffs?
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 19, 2019 12:40:53 GMT -5
The problem seems to be that the market just plain doesn't care enough. (Of course, there is a fair argument that, if you have to walk up to within two feet of the screen to see the difference, then maybe it really isn't all that important after all.)
The reality is that upscaled HD content does NOT look quite as good as true 4k content... but, at the best of times, it can be pretty close. Likewise, 4k streaming can look very good, but not as good as a 4k disc, which has much higher bandwidth and uses less compression. And, of course, it doesn't help that not all "4k content" is really filmed and processed fully in 4k.
And it helps even less that, with many shows and movies, beyond a certain point the absolute quality just plain doesn't matter all that much. This all begs the question of whether "8k" will actually be a visible improvement - or just a marketing slogan.
I think the whole concept of streaming, and on-demand, rather than OWNERSHIP, also erodes the concern many of us have for quality... When I purchase a disc, which I plan to watch over and over again, I tend to be very concerned about minor details of exactly how good it looks and sounds... But I just can't work up as much concern for a movie I'm watching on my streaming subscription... To me it feels sort of like the difference between getting my own car detailed... and a rental...
And, to me, it seems that we're heading in the direction of a world where everything you watch is a "just a rental"...
An industry insider (my company is part of the semiconductor and display manufacturing industry) tells me that 8K will never be more than a display technology. There are no plans for 8K content by anyone. Indeed, the value of 4K content is being questioned with the advent of better and faster up-scaling engines built into 4K displays. Samsung pulling out of BRD and UHD player manufacturing is a big deal. I believe they are third in the market and they manufacture for several brands. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 19, 2019 12:41:50 GMT -5
No.
That started when sales of streaming subscriptions topped the sales of physical discs.
That started when Oppo stopped making their Blu-ray players... |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 19, 2019 12:48:30 GMT -5
It also seemed to suggest that they plan to stop "making new designs".... which does not suggest that they will necessarily stop manufacturing current designs.... especially for OEM customers. The fact is that the US market has embraced streaming more thoroughly than the markets in many other parts of the globe...
And, because of this, sales of discs and disc players have declined more quickly in the USA than in other parts of the world... The demand for these products in the USA is simply drying up...
(You will notice that retail stores in the USA have also all started reducing their space allotments for discs and disc players or announced plans to do so.)
The press release I read said they are pulling out of the U.S. market only. What does that imply? _____ tariffs? |
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Post by 405x5 on Feb 19, 2019 13:04:57 GMT -5
Regular DVD's account for 57% of all disk purchases; that says a lot. I still enjoy DVD, even though I have replaced a number of them with Blu Ray. The sound of some of the new movies (Netflix Rentals) just on regular DVD is excellent, rivaling the audio of many. If a movie sucks, matters not what medium it comes on. A disaster when technical excellence trumps a good story. Bill |
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Post by 405x5 on Feb 19, 2019 13:11:04 GMT -5
Too bad about Samsung. I played "Stump the Band" with them once and won...…..(so to speak) In the early adoption of blu ray, I picked up a concert from the Police, that the Samsung player could not, properly decode despite the latest firmware for that unit. They complemented me on my taste in music, and sent me a newer model at no cost as an exchange. Bill |
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Post by Bonzo on Feb 19, 2019 13:19:40 GMT -5
The press release I read said they are pulling out of the U.S. market only. What does that imply? _____ tariffs? I have the same question as to why Panny OLEDS are not available in the US either. What's up with that? |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 19, 2019 13:20:01 GMT -5
Never forget that this is an INDUSTRY and the idea of all industry is to make money. New audio or video formats and "improved" screen resolutions and surround sound schemes and new technologies are less about improving the look, sound or enjoyment for the user and more about getting more of that user's money and finding ways to improve profit margins. Same for the death of discs and disc players (when something is not selling, you lose money making it) and of the "rental" streaming model. MUCH more money can potentially be made from streaming than from physical media sales. Make no mistake, the rise of streaming is just as much about the industry figuring out how to capitalize on it as it is about the desire for user convenience.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 19, 2019 13:20:34 GMT -5
The press release I read said they are pulling out of the U.S. market only. What does that imply? _____ tariffs? I have the same question as to why Panny OLEDS are not available in the US either. What's up with that? Because the screens are made by LG. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 19, 2019 13:22:14 GMT -5
The press release I read said they are pulling out of the U.S. market only. What does that imply? _____ tariffs? Likely more about sales numbers disappearing in the US. |
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Post by teaman on Feb 19, 2019 13:26:54 GMT -5
I would be shopping the new Panasonic players if I were in the market. Hands down the nicest and most advanced players on the market.
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Post by geeqner on Feb 19, 2019 13:29:02 GMT -5
The problem seems to be that the market just plain doesn't care enough. (Of course, there is a fair argument that, if you have to walk up to within two feet of the screen to see the difference, then maybe it really isn't all that important after all.)
The reality is that upscaled HD content does NOT look quite as good as true 4k content... but, at the best of times, it can be pretty close. Likewise, 4k streaming can look very good, but not as good as a 4k disc, which has much higher bandwidth and uses less compression. And, of course, it doesn't help that not all "4k content" is really filmed and processed fully in 4k.
And it helps even less that, with many shows and movies, beyond a certain point the absolute quality just plain doesn't matter all that much. This all begs the question of whether "8k" will actually be a visible improvement - or just a marketing slogan.
I think the whole concept of streaming, and on-demand, rather than OWNERSHIP, also erodes the concern many of us have for quality... When I purchase a disc, which I plan to watch over and over again, I tend to be very concerned about minor details of exactly how good it looks and sounds... But I just can't work up as much concern for a movie I'm watching on my streaming subscription... To me it feels sort of like the difference between getting my own car detailed... and a rental...
And, to me, it seems that we're heading in the direction of a world where everything you watch is a "just a rental"...
An industry insider (my company is part of the semiconductor and display manufacturing industry) tells me that 8K will never be more than a display technology. There are no plans for 8K content by anyone. Indeed, the value of 4K content is being questioned with the advent of better and faster up-scaling engines built into 4K displays. Samsung pulling out of BRD and UHD player manufacturing is a big deal. I believe they are third in the market and they manufacture for several brands. I also think that as Streaming replaces Physical Media - The speed and bandwidth required to go to higher and higher resolutions simply becomes "Impractical". Remember that your Display is a 2-Dimensional array. (Resolution is expanded along TWO axis.) Assuming that each Pixel has several pieces of data associated with it (Greyscale / color code or nnn bits) Doubling the resolution from 1K to 2K or 2K to 4K DOES NOT simply DOUBLE the amount of data - It QUADRUPLES IT (I KNOW that this is over-simplified - but You'll get the point): --1000 X 1000 = 1,000,000 --2000 X 2000 = 4,000,000 --4000 X 4000 = 16,000,000 [NOT 8,000,000] This means that you now have either 16 TIMES The Data when going from 1K to 4K or FOUR Times as much when going from 2K to 4K Even with REALLY fast Internet connections and modern compression technologies - this is A WHOLE LOT of Data, and once everybody in a neighborhood starts doing it, the current Data Services that are available may be unable to keep-up. [Maybe we'll have to go BACK to physical media the size of a Lazer-Disk or LP, but with data densities of a Blue Ray in order to store a movie...] (never quite understood why 2K never really took-hold except maybe for Computers, where 4K is still too "taxing" for all but the most expensive Graphics Cards to keep-up with decent frame-rates) At some point - going to a higher resolution makes no sense unless you have a REALLY HUGE screen (if your eyes cannot see an appreciable difference, then there's NO POINT to it, regardless of what marketing says) I hope that at some point, the "resolution wars" STOP at some reasonable dot-pitch that makes sense (When done RIGHT, 4K is REALLY NICE on screens over a certain size - but at some point, people are going to get sick of having to invest in new equipment for no appreciable difference, and the Data Infrastructure will need to be upgraded by a quantup-leap in order to cope with it. |
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Post by Bonzo on Feb 19, 2019 13:53:32 GMT -5
I have the same question as to why Panny OLEDS are not available in the US either. What's up with that? Because the screens are made by LG. So are Sony OLEDs. So why is Panasonic singled out? |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 19, 2019 13:59:10 GMT -5
Because the screens are made by LG. So are Sony OLEDs. So why is Panasonic singled out? Contracts. |
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