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Post by rockman85 on Feb 27, 2019 3:53:56 GMT -5
Put simply, I want to get the Node 2i as my new Streamer. I could either
A. Use the analog out and feed directly into my Basx A300
B. Use the analog out and feed into the analog input of my Stealth DC-1
C. Use the digital output to feed into the Stealth DC-1
My question is this, is there any benefit to using the Stealth DC-1 as a preamp, apart of functionality and ease of use. Will using the analog input of the DC-1 improve the sound at all of the Node 2i, or should I ditch my DC-1 and just use the Node2i directly?
Thanks all.
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Feb 27, 2019 12:33:30 GMT -5
I would be asking if using the DC-1 as the DAC sounds better than using the internal DAC in the Bluesound (Option C). Put simply, I want to get the Node 2i as my new Streamer. I could either A. Use the analog out and feed directly into my Basx A300 B. Use the analog out and feed into the analog input of my Stealth DC-1 C. Use the digital output to feed into the Stealth DC-1 My question is this, is there any benefit to using the Stealth DC-1 as a preamp, apart of functionality and ease of use. Will using the analog input of the DC-1 improve the sound at all of the Node 2i, or should I ditch my DC-1 and just use the Node2i directly? Thanks all.
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Post by rockman85 on Feb 27, 2019 13:21:03 GMT -5
Yes Keith, I definitely will test this out. TBH I dont know very much about DACs, I know they DC-1 has the AD1955 and the Node2i has a BurrBrown PCM5122 DAC. I have no idea what the differences are sonically, will have to test for myself. BUT, the main reason I am shying away from option C, is that the Node2i can decode MQA, hence my leaning on going with the analog out options.
So, just basically, will running the Node2i analog through the Stealth add anything, or would it be pretty neutral?
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Post by Ex_Vintage on Feb 27, 2019 13:44:13 GMT -5
My experience with the Node 2i is that the analog out (the Bluesound internal DAC) sounded a bit lacking in the low frequency area. When I first fired up the Node, I used the analog output to my MC700 and the sound was noticeably lacking a solid base response. I ended up using the digital output to the MC and the sound was much fuller. I have both the digital and analog paths hooked up to my pre-pro , so doing a A/B comparison is very easy. I think with the options you have, you should find a configuration that you like.
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Post by geeqner on Feb 27, 2019 14:54:16 GMT -5
I think that given the options at your disposal - you should be able to find one that you like best.
I'm liking my Node 2i so far.
Like you - I have not had much exposure to using different DACs.
From the research that I did PRIOR to purchasing my Node 2i - it appears to incorporate "Upper-Middle-Class DAC Circuitry", but it has been cleverly implemented.
I currently have no way of doing a "quality" A/B comparison, but once I'm set-up on Tidal, I should be able to play and stream the same recording and simply switch Inputs to my Receiver that functions as the Pre-Amp. From a subjective viewpoint - I'd say that the sound quality / equalization of the Analog Output of the Node 2i is about the same as what I'd expect from a modern middle-of-the-road CD Player, which is PLENTY good for MY System...
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Post by garbulky on Feb 27, 2019 15:45:50 GMT -5
Yes Keith, I definitely will test this out. TBH I dont know very much about DACs, I know they DC-1 has the AD1955 and the Node2i has a BurrBrown PCM5122 DAC. I have no idea what the differences are sonically, will have to test for myself. BUT, the main reason I am shying away from option C, is that the Node2i can decode MQA, hence my leaning on going with the analog out options. So, just basically, will running the Node2i analog through the Stealth add anything, or would it be pretty neutral? Just so you know the DC-1 has two ad1955 dacs running in dual mono mode. It also has two separate headphone amps. It also has two separate digitally controlled analog resistor ladders - one for headphones and one for the analog output. It also converts the single ended unbalanced analog signal to balanced internally to provide a balanced output. Its jitter reduction circuit also processes the digital signal at its native rate without upsampling unlike the older generation XDA-2 which resampled everything to 96khz. I would definitely try the DC-1 DAC as that has more potential to provide a benefit than just using it as a preamp. Not saying it will. But that's what I would try. . |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,266
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Post by KeithL on Feb 27, 2019 16:37:51 GMT -5
The single most important thing to keep in mind with DACs is that there's a lot more involved that which chip they use. Many other factors, like the design of the power supply, and the analog circuitry, can make a bigger difference than which DAC chip is used. (It will also be interesting to see what you think of MQA. MQA most certainly does alter the sound... and not everyone agrees that it is always, or even sometimes, an improvement.)
And, yes, as DACs go, the DC-1 is quite neutral.
(I would also expect the Burr Brown DAC to be rather neutral.)
Yes Keith, I definitely will test this out. TBH I dont know very much about DACs, I know they DC-1 has the AD1955 and the Node2i has a BurrBrown PCM5122 DAC. I have no idea what the differences are sonically, will have to test for myself. BUT, the main reason I am shying away from option C, is that the Node2i can decode MQA, hence my leaning on going with the analog out options. So, just basically, will running the Node2i analog through the Stealth add anything, or would it be pretty neutral? Just so you know the DC-1 has two ad1955 dacs running in dual mono mode. It also has two separate headphone amps. It also has two separate digitally controlled analog resistor ladders - one for headphones and one for the analog output. It also converts the single ended unbalanced analog signal to balanced internally to provide a balanced output. Its jitter reduction circuit also processes the digital signal at its native rate without upsampling unlike the older generation XDA-2 which resampled everything to 96khz. I would definitely try the DC-1 DAC as that has more potential to provide a benefit than just using it as a preamp. Not saying it will. But that's what I would try. . |
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Post by rockman85 on Feb 27, 2019 16:55:57 GMT -5
Yes, I suppose I will simply have to test all 3 options to see which sounds best. Sadly the ONLY way to test the MQA is with the analogue out, as the DC-1 cannot decode it. So Ill have to do an A/B comparison of Tidal streaming digitally from the Node to the DC-1 VS. the Tidal analog cd quality to compare apples to apples. But I'll add my MQA findings as well. I'll do a write up in a month to let you know my findings if anyone is interested.
Thanks all.
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Post by leonski on Feb 27, 2019 18:39:53 GMT -5
Yes Keith, I definitely will test this out. TBH I dont know very much about DACs, I know they DC-1 has the AD1955 and the Node2i has a BurrBrown PCM5122 DAC. I have no idea what the differences are sonically, will have to test for myself. BUT, the main reason I am shying away from option C, is that the Node2i can decode MQA, hence my leaning on going with the analog out options. So, just basically, will running the Node2i analog through the Stealth add anything, or would it be pretty neutral? Any given DAC can have variable results depending on IMPLIMENTATION. Sonic 'differences' in various DACS can be swamped by How they are used in a given circuit. Cutting corners in circuit design? Poor Power Supply? Cheap parts in signal path? All will make a difference. So while you have 2 different chipsets, it is not that one is 'better' than the other, but rather how they are used and 'goodness' of design. Some DAC chipsets have 'options' built in regarding filters and sampling.......Which end users wouldn't necessarily know about or find in the literature. Let your ears be your guide... |
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Post by jamco on Feb 27, 2019 21:07:13 GMT -5
I picked up a Bluesound Node 2i last Saturday with no intensions of using the internal DAC as I have an Emotiva Stealth DC-1. That being said, I admittedly compared the Node 2i analog out to my DC-1 out on a few tracks with and without MQA via my preamp. Please keep in mind that the DC-1 is not MQA compliant, so your MQA music playback is limited to 24/96. For my ears, the DC-1 still won hands down despite the Node 2i having MQA; so, I removed the analog interconnects from the Node 2i. Like others have recommended here, I encourage you to listen to the difference and determine what sounds best to you.
My sound has benefited by having a separate preamp (Schiit Jotunheim) in my rig, but it’s certainly not required. Fact is, I used the DC-1 as a preamp for many months. Again, I encourage you to listen to the difference and determine what sounds best to you.
My streamed music now sounds better than ever before and has caused me to go back to some of my favorite (streamed) albums just to hear the subtle improvements.
The BluOS Controller’s user interface is very good. Navigation is quick, refined, intuitive and consistently works great with my music service subscriptions. The BluOS Controller’s UI makes great use of the screen’s real estate. Tidal HiFi and Qobuz Studio Hi-Res have native integration. Spotify Premium is interfaced using Spotify Connect; the BluOS Controller calls the Spotify application and begins playing music immediately. TuneIn is a plus. 
If you want to get a little crazy, put a Nordost Blue Heaven Digital 75 Ohm BNC between the Node 2i and DC-1; it sounds amazing (I know, highly subjective). I demo’d this digital interconnect and others on my system over the weekend and placed the order for the Nordost on Monday.
Happy streaming…
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Post by rockman85 on Feb 28, 2019 17:15:32 GMT -5
I picked up a Bluesound Node 2i last Saturday with no intensions of using the internal DAC as I have an Emotiva Stealth DC-1. That being said, I admittedly compared the Node 2i analog out to my DC-1 out on a few tracks with and without MQA via my preamp. Please keep in mind that the DC-1 is not MQA compliant, so your MQA music playback is limited to 24/96. For my ears, the DC-1 still won hands down despite the Node 2i having MQA; so, I removed the analog interconnects from the Node 2i. Like others have recommended here, I encourage you to listen to the difference and determine what sounds best to you.
My sound has benefited by having a separate preamp (Schiit Jotunheim) in my rig, but it’s certainly not required. Fact is, I used the DC-1 as a preamp for many months. Again, I encourage you to listen to the difference and determine what sounds best to you.
My streamed music now sounds better than ever before and has caused me to go back to some of my favorite (streamed) albums just to hear the subtle improvements.
The BluOS Controller’s user interface is very good. Navigation is quick, refined, intuitive and consistently works great with my music service subscriptions. The BluOS Controller’s UI makes great use of the screen’s real estate. Tidal HiFi and Qobuz Studio Hi-Res have native integration. Spotify Premium is interfaced using Spotify Connect; the BluOS Controller calls the Spotify application and begins playing music immediately. TuneIn is a plus.
If you want to get a little crazy, put a Nordost Blue Heaven Digital 75 Ohm BNC between the Node 2i and DC-1; it sounds amazing (I know, highly subjective). I demo’d this digital interconnect and others on my system over the weekend and placed the order for the Nordost on Monday.
Happy streaming…
Awesome, this is exactly the kind of response I was hoping for. So do you go analogue out from the Stealth DC-1 in your preamp? How does the preamp color the sound, tubes? Also, you really think an interconnect makes a difference?? I am having a hard time understanding how 1s and 0s can benefit from different cables. |
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Post by leonski on Feb 28, 2019 18:34:12 GMT -5
Rockman85? jamco said the magic words when dealing with his digital interconnect. That is 75ohms. What appears to happen is that in a matched impedance situation, very little of the signal reflects back and forth down the wire. This reflection can cause timing problems and perhaps 'smear'. In a daisy chain of such poor connections, the mismatch can really add up. The linked article from Bllue Jeans Cable might help to clarfy the issue:: www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/75ohmrca.htm |
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Post by rockman85 on Feb 28, 2019 19:11:47 GMT -5
Rockman85? jamco said the magic words when dealing with his digital interconnect. That is 75ohms. What appears to happen is that in a matched impedance situation, very little of the signal reflects back and forth down the wire. This reflection can cause timing problems and perhaps 'smear'. In a daisy chain of such poor connections, the mismatch can really add up. The linked article from Bllue Jeans Cable might help to clarfy the issue:: www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/75ohmrca.htmSo would this be fine, instead of a $300 version? www.amazon.com/dp/B003NMVG64/ref=psdc_3236443011_t2_B00FMZX5RI |
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Post by leonski on Feb 28, 2019 22:19:40 GMT -5
I REALLY wish I knew and could be helpful. My tendency is to use Optic whenever possible, since with NO electrical connection between pieces, you also have Zero chance of some kind of Ground Issue.
Did the Bllue Jeans Cable article help, or just confuse? I could see it going either way!
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Post by jamco on Mar 1, 2019 1:30:41 GMT -5
I picked up a Bluesound Node 2i last Saturday with no intensions of using the internal DAC as I have an Emotiva Stealth DC-1. That being said, I admittedly compared the Node 2i analog out to my DC-1 out on a few tracks with and without MQA via my preamp. Please keep in mind that the DC-1 is not MQA compliant, so your MQA music playback is limited to 24/96. For my ears, the DC-1 still won hands down despite the Node 2i having MQA; so, I removed the analog interconnects from the Node 2i. Like others have recommended here, I encourage you to listen to the difference and determine what sounds best to you.
My sound has benefited by having a separate preamp (Schiit Jotunheim) in my rig, but it’s certainly not required. Fact is, I used the DC-1 as a preamp for many months. Again, I encourage you to listen to the difference and determine what sounds best to you.
My streamed music now sounds better than ever before and has caused me to go back to some of my favorite (streamed) albums just to hear the subtle improvements.
The BluOS Controller’s user interface is very good. Navigation is quick, refined, intuitive and consistently works great with my music service subscriptions. The BluOS Controller’s UI makes great use of the screen’s real estate. Tidal HiFi and Qobuz Studio Hi-Res have native integration. Spotify Premium is interfaced using Spotify Connect; the BluOS Controller calls the Spotify application and begins playing music immediately. TuneIn is a plus.
If you want to get a little crazy, put a Nordost Blue Heaven Digital 75 Ohm BNC between the Node 2i and DC-1; it sounds amazing (I know, highly subjective). I demo’d this digital interconnect and others on my system over the weekend and placed the order for the Nordost on Monday.
Happy streaming…
Awesome, this is exactly the kind of response I was hoping for. So do you go analogue out from the Stealth DC-1 in your preamp? How does the preamp color the sound, tubes? Also, you really think an interconnect makes a difference?? I am having a hard time understanding how 1s and 0s can benefit from different cables. Yes, analog out of the DC-1 to the preamp. Ideally, a preamp does not color the sound. My preamp is solid state, but you may prefer a tube preamp. I encourage you to test drive several preamps to determine what sounds best to you. Yes, IMO different digital interconnects can make a difference. |
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Post by jamco on Mar 1, 2019 1:46:59 GMT -5
Rockman85? jamco said the magic words when dealing with his digital interconnect. That is 75ohms. What appears to happen is that in a matched impedance situation, very little of the signal reflects back and forth down the wire. This reflection can cause timing problems and perhaps 'smear'. In a daisy chain of such poor connections, the mismatch can really add up. The linked article from Bllue Jeans Cable might help to clarfy the issue:: www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/75ohmrca.htmSo would this be fine, instead of a $300 version? www.amazon.com/dp/B003NMVG64/ref=psdc_3236443011_t2_B00FMZX5RII would take several different digital interconnects for a test drive. I borrowed a few from a local audio store; some stores require a deposit. Only your opinion counts. |
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