ERM-1's Times 3 A bedroom setup

[knucklehead]

I'd been contemplating a pair of these gems for the BR for quite some time. When Emotiva decided to put them on closeout I was all over these - like flies on a bull's ass on a hot calm day - but 3 instead of just 2. I'm glad I did.

I'm a sucker for free shipping!

I get a knock on the door yesterday morning by the FedEx gal - wanted to make sure I was here before she lugged the 3 pack of ERMs up to the door. She wasn't smiling - she remembered bringing the pair of ERTs a couple of months ago. And the not light AV123 "bigfoot" was with them. The line about "job security" didn't cause a ripple in her face then - no smile whatever - and just a bit of a smile this time.

Anyway - for as far as these speakers have had to travel - the boxes were in great shape thanks to a good design - double boxed as usual. Emotiva takes great pains to ship items well protected.

Opening the boxes up and pulling the speakers out - I see the now familiar black cotton speaker sock each is sporting. The speakers are in absolutely perfect shape - not a mar nor scratch to be seen. Binding posts are a cut above what you'd expect on a speaker at this price point. Same as the ERT binding posts. Sticking a bare wire into these posts is a much easier task than on many other speakers.

OK, so I connect them to the BR receiver - the HK 247 - an adequate if not great receiver - and turn in on - and fire up the DVD 38. I stick in Acoustic Alchemy - a CD I'm very familiar with on the 247 - DVD 38 and Infinity IL30s - and Beta 250 center. I usually play in 5 channel stereo - no 3 channel mode on the 247. First impressions were a bit disappointing, but I soon realized what is missing - bass - for which I'm looking for a cure - a small sub - probably 8" - maybe 10" - but must be musical. I've had a bad sub - a JBL E150P. Terrible sub - it approximates bass by belching out long extended non-detailed low frequency sound. I think elephants farting would be an improvement - except for the smells of course.

The IL30s are ported and do dig quite low - but without the detail of a good sealed design - sorry - I'm a convert to sealed designed speakers. The mids and highs from the IL30s are not as detailed or clear. The sound is compressed as compared to the ERMs. I listened to Enya for about an hour before lights out. What I heard was great - better than I expected. One cut off her CD collection "A Box Of Dreams" - "March of The Celts". Quite a lot went into that as revealed by the ERMs.

While the Infinity IL30s sound great - they go much lower than the ERMs - the upper mids and the highs are much more well defined with the ERMs. The bass is also much tighter - what there is - due to the sealed design.

While my initial impressions of the ERM was just a bit disappointing, after a couple hours of listening I began to realize what the ERM is all about. Its about detail and non-compressed sound. Not about covering the spectrum of sound - but giving you what it is supposed to - with detail and clarity.

I seriously considered sending these back within the first 5 minutes. I'm glad I took the time to listen to some CDs I'm familiar with - DSOTM - the Enya CD mentioned above - as well as some Clapton.

As for these being 4 ohm speakers - it seems the receiver is running about the same temp as when it drove the IL30s and Beta 250 center. I cranked it up to near max and left the room for about 10 minutes - it never entered protect mode - and the heat was modest at best. I think any decent AVR could drive these speakers with no ill effects.

Now - the search for a decent 8-10" sub is on.

Any suggestions?

[Lonnie]

Jun 11, 2009 10:00:14 GMT -5 knucklehead said:

I'd been contemplating a pair of these gems for the BR for quite some time. When Emotiva decided to put them on closeout I was all over these - like flies on a bull's ass on a hot calm day - but 3 instead of just 2. I'm glad I did.

I'm a sucker for free shipping!

I get a knock on the door yesterday morning by the FedEx gal - wanted to make sure I was here before she lugged the 3 pack of ERMs up to the door. She wasn't smiling - she remembered bringing the pair of ERTs a couple of months ago. And the not light AV123 "bigfoot" was with them. The line about "job security" didn't cause a ripple in her face then - no smile whatever - and just a bit of a smile this time.

Anyway - for as far as these speakers have had to travel - the boxes were in great shape thanks to a good design - double boxed as usual. Emotiva takes great pains to ship items well protected.

Opening the boxes up and pulling the speakers out - I see the now familiar black cotton speaker sock each is sporting. The speakers are in absolutely perfect shape - not a mar nor scratch to be seen. Binding posts are a cut above what you'd expect on a speaker at this price point. Same as the ERT binding posts. Sticking a bare wire into these posts is a much easier task than on many other speakers.

OK, so I connect them to the BR receiver - the HK 247 - an adequate if not great receiver - and turn in on - and fire up the DVD 38. I stick in Acoustic Alchemy - a CD I'm very familiar with on the 247 - DVD 38 and Infinity IL30s - and Beta 250 center. I usually play in 5 channel stereo - no 3 channel mode on the 247. First impressions were a bit disappointing, but I soon realized what is missing - bass - for which I'm looking for a cure - a small sub - probably 8" - maybe 10" - but must be musical. I've had a bad sub - a JBL E150P. Terrible sub - it approximates bass by belching out long extended non-detailed low frequency sound. I think elephants farting would be an improvement - except for the smells of course.

The IL30s are ported and do dig quite low - but without the detail of a good sealed design - sorry - I'm a convert to sealed designed speakers. The mids and highs from the IL30s are not as detailed or clear. The sound is compressed as compared to the ERMs. I listened to Enya for about an hour before lights out. What I heard was great - better than I expected. One cut off her CD collection "A Box Of Dreams" - "March of The Celts". Quite a lot went into that as revealed by the ERMs.

While the Infinity IL30s sound great - they go much lower than the ERMs - the upper mids and the highs are much more well defined with the ERMs. The bass is also much tighter - what there is - due to the sealed design.

While my initial impressions of the ERM was just a bit disappointing, after a couple hours of listening I began to realize what the ERM is all about. Its about detail and non-compressed sound. Not about covering the spectrum of sound - but giving you what it is supposed to - with detail and clarity.

I seriously considered sending these back within the first 5 minutes. I'm glad I took the time to listen to some CDs I'm familiar with - DSOTM - the Enya CD mentioned above - as well as some Clapton.

As for these being 4 ohm speakers - it seems the receiver is running about the same temp as when it drove the IL30s and Beta 250 center. I cranked it up to near max and left the room for about 10 minutes - it never entered protect mode - and the heat was modest at best. I think any decent AVR could drive these speakers with no ill effects.

Now - the search for a decent 8-10" sub is on.

Any suggestions?

Yes, a sub is necessary, but it's intentional. These speakers are designed for maximum efficiency. Once you get a sub, you'll be amazed at how seamlessly they integrate with it.

[monkumonku]

Jun 11, 2009 10:00:14 GMT -5 knucklehead said:

I'd been contemplating a pair of these gems for the BR for quite some time. When Emotiva decided to put them on closeout I was all over these - like flies on a bull's ass on a hot calm day - but 3 instead of just 2. I'm glad I did.

I'm a sucker for free shipping!

I get a knock on the door yesterday morning by the FedEx gal - wanted to make sure I was here before she lugged the 3 pack of ERMs up to the door. She wasn't smiling - she remembered bringing the pair of ERTs a couple of months ago. And the not light AV123 "bigfoot" was with them. The line about "job security" didn't cause a ripple in her face then - no smile whatever - and just a bit of a smile this time.

Anyway - for as far as these speakers have had to travel - the boxes were in great shape thanks to a good design - double boxed as usual. Emotiva takes great pains to ship items well protected.

Opening the boxes up and pulling the speakers out - I see the now familiar black cotton speaker sock each is sporting. The speakers are in absolutely perfect shape - not a mar nor scratch to be seen. Binding posts are a cut above what you'd expect on a speaker at this price point. Same as the ERT binding posts. Sticking a bare wire into these posts is a much easier task than on many other speakers.

OK, so I connect them to the BR receiver - the HK 247 - an adequate if not great receiver - and turn in on - and fire up the DVD 38. I stick in Acoustic Alchemy - a CD I'm very familiar with on the 247 - DVD 38 and Infinity IL30s - and Beta 250 center. I usually play in 5 channel stereo - no 3 channel mode on the 247. First impressions were a bit disappointing, but I soon realized what is missing - bass - for which I'm looking for a cure - a small sub - probably 8" - maybe 10" - but must be musical. I've had a bad sub - a JBL E150P. Terrible sub - it approximates bass by belching out long extended non-detailed low frequency sound. I think elephants farting would be an improvement - except for the smells of course.

The IL30s are ported and do dig quite low - but without the detail of a good sealed design - sorry - I'm a convert to sealed designed speakers. The mids and highs from the IL30s are not as detailed or clear. The sound is compressed as compared to the ERMs. I listened to Enya for about an hour before lights out. What I heard was great - better than I expected. One cut off her CD collection "A Box Of Dreams" - "March of The Celts". Quite a lot went into that as revealed by the ERMs.

While the Infinity IL30s sound great - they go much lower than the ERMs - the upper mids and the highs are much more well defined with the ERMs. The bass is also much tighter - what there is - due to the sealed design.

While my initial impressions of the ERM was just a bit disappointing, after a couple hours of listening I began to realize what the ERM is all about. Its about detail and non-compressed sound. Not about covering the spectrum of sound - but giving you what it is supposed to - with detail and clarity.

I seriously considered sending these back within the first 5 minutes. I'm glad I took the time to listen to some CDs I'm familiar with - DSOTM - the Enya CD mentioned above - as well as some Clapton.

As for these being 4 ohm speakers - it seems the receiver is running about the same temp as when it drove the IL30s and Beta 250 center. I cranked it up to near max and left the room for about 10 minutes - it never entered protect mode - and the heat was modest at best. I think any decent AVR could drive these speakers with no ill effects.

Now - the search for a decent 8-10" sub is on.

Any suggestions?

I have the same impressions you do, except I have the 6.2's as mains (I am using the ERM-1's as surrounds; they are quite similar in timbre). These definitely need a sub, which is how they were designed. I have a Hsu STF-2 and when I use that with the 6.2's, it is a seamless combination. The sub really rounds out the transparent midrange and highs of the 6.2's.

[compliance]

Jun 11, 2009 10:00:14 GMT -5 knucklehead said:

I seriously considered sending these back within the first 5 minutes. I'm glad I took the time to listen to some CDs I'm familiar with - DSOTM - the Enya CD mentioned above - as well as some Clapton.

You need to give them time to break in. I'd return every speaker I've ever bought if I based my decisions on the first couple hours of listening. Run those puppies at mid volume for a few days straight.

[knucklehead]

Jun 11, 2009 10:53:43 GMT -5 compliance said:

Jun 11, 2009 10:00:14 GMT -5 knucklehead said:

I seriously considered sending these back within the first 5 minutes. I'm glad I took the time to listen to some CDs I'm familiar with - DSOTM - the Enya CD mentioned above - as well as some Clapton.

You need to give them time to break in. I'd return every speaker I've ever bought if I based my decisions on the first couple hours of listening. Run those puppies at mid volume for a few days straight.

No matter how long I break these in they will still be lacking any real bass - thats not going to change. The initial impression as compared to the IL30s was shocking. But a bit of critical listening really showed me what these speakers are capable of - very detailed and uncompressed mids and highs the IL30s are not capable of. With a small sub for a small room I'll have all the bass I need. And it isn't as lacking as I initially thought - but the IL30s probably go down to 45hz. The ERMs only go to 80hz. Thats a lot of bottom suddenly gone.
Listening to the ERMs is like listening to the ERTs with the bass totally gone. The ERTs are in reality a pair of ERMs with a couple of 8" woofers attached - so - no surprise there.

As for breaking in speakers - I've never noticed speakers changing much if at all as they get time on them.

[headknocker]

Thanks for the review.

I'm still going back and forth on whether I should go with a pair of 6.2's for the mains and a 6.3 for the CC(my original decision) or a trio of 6.3's for the front stage. If money wasn't an issue I wouldn't even hesitate to go with a trio of 6.3's but that's unfortunately not the case.

I'm seriously thinking about just getting a pair of 6.2's and the XPA-3 in a month or so and just perservere with the Aura LSC-537M CC until I have the funds for the 6.3 CC. If need be I can always get a pair of 6.3's down the road.

I just can't wait much longer

[oneliterpeter]

Sub recomendation...

Martin Logan Dynamo or Abyss

They show up on Audiogon for under $400 (Dynamo) from time to time and they sell within a day or two of being posted.

Believe me... They are that good.

[Lonnie]

This is not an annoyed comment...but I get puzzled every time I hear someone say, 'These speakers don't have much bass.' We've always said that they roll off at 80Hz for maximum efficiency, and are designed to work with a subwoofer. Still, comments aplenty about the lack of bass.

It makes me think of someone plugging up a subwoofer and saying...'Hmmmm. Not much treble output.'

[soulrider4ever]

That's a good point Dann. I'd rather a bookshelf do what it can do REALLY well, than a small speaker that tries to be an end all speaker from 20-20hz. OP - do you have an Emotiva amplifier to test these on? I may be going out on a limb here, but something tells me that the two would play together very nicely.

[Lonnie]

Jun 11, 2009 14:16:55 GMT -5 soulrider4ever said:

That's a good point Dann. I'd rather a bookshelf do what it can do REALLY well, than a small speaker that tries to be an end all speaker from 20-20hz. OP - do you have an Emotiva amplifier to test these on? I may be going out on a limb here, but something tells me that the two would play together very nicely.

I don't think anybody is upset here, no....nooooo. We've just always said from the beginning that these are speakers that need to work with a sub, and most reviews start with, 'well, there's not much low end...' They're not conventional full range bookshelf speakers, although we might do something like that at some point.

[soulrider4ever]

I personally never use bookshelf's without a sub anyway. I'm so tempted to buy... mhmm

[Lonnie]

Jun 11, 2009 14:27:29 GMT -5 soulrider4ever said:

I personally never use bookshelf's without a sub anyway. I'm so tempted to buy... mhmm

I think they actually sound pretty fat, and a sub makes 'em just so.

[soulrider4ever]

Something tells me that I'm going to slowly replace every single piece of audio gear I have with Emotiva, at least I won't have to sell the house to do it! So when are you guys going to sell an External USB DAC?

[monkumonku]

Jun 11, 2009 14:24:12 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

Jun 11, 2009 14:16:55 GMT -5 soulrider4ever said:

That's a good point Dann. I'd rather a bookshelf do what it can do REALLY well, than a small speaker that tries to be an end all speaker from 20-20hz. OP - do you have an Emotiva amplifier to test these on? I may be going out on a limb here, but something tells me that the two would play together very nicely.

I don't think anybody is upset here, no....nooooo. We've just always said from the beginning that these are speakers that need to work with a sub, and most reviews start with, 'well, there's not much low end...' They're not conventional full range bookshelf speakers, although we might do something like that at some point.

Most people have subs anyway. Why not let the bookshelf mains focus on what they do best instead of trying to get too much low range out of them. My 6.2's sound fantastic with a sub. They sound great by themselves but a sub really completes the picture.

[Lonnie]

Jun 11, 2009 14:32:39 GMT -5 soulrider4ever said:

Something tells me that I'm going to slowly replace every single piece of audio gear I have with Emotiva, at least I won't have to sell the house to do it! So when are you guys going to sell an External USB DAC?

hmmmmmmm.

[Lonnie]

Jun 11, 2009 14:38:37 GMT -5 monkumonku said:

Jun 11, 2009 14:24:12 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

I don't think anybody is upset here, no....nooooo. We've just always said from the beginning that these are speakers that need to work with a sub, and most reviews start with, 'well, there's not much low end...' They're not conventional full range bookshelf speakers, although we might do something like that at some point.

Most people have subs anyway. Why not let the bookshelf mains focus on what they do best instead of trying to get too much low range out of them. My 6.2's sound fantastic with a sub. They sound great by themselves but a sub really completes the picture.

Right...well, that's the whole concept behind home theater speakers...efficiency and response. Quick response. That's also why they're 4 ohms, according to Vance. Immediate response and dynamics.

[Animo]

Jun 11, 2009 14:02:14 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

This is not an annoyed comment...but I get puzzled every time I hear someone say, 'These speakers don't have much bass.' We've always said that they roll off at 80Hz for maximum efficiency, and are designed to work with a subwoofer. Still, comments aplenty about the lack of bass.

It makes me think of someone plugging up a subwoofer and saying...'Hmmmm. Not much treble output.'

Just for giggles and shits, I decided to put my Stereophile test cd into the ERC-1. I only turned on my XPA-5 which runs my ERM6.3 center and my 4 ERD-1 surrounds. I went through the warble tones starting at 125hz. I had usable bass energy coming out of the 5 speakers all the way down to 40hz. Yes it's true these would be helped by a subwoofer, however, my mains go flat to 20hz in my room and that seems to round out the system nicely. I do plan to add subs regardless, because it will make my mains even more efficient , and give me the .1 for my LFE channel, which my system presently lacks.

Now, the reason I say that the Emo speakers have usable bass to 40hz is because they weren't straining, and my processor (Outlaw 970) was dialed in at -23.50db which is well below my reference level of -15db for music and -15 to 0db for movies (depending on the movie).

Just because the specs say 80hz, doesn't mean that's were usable output stops. That is just the point where it begins to roll off, and I noticed a minimal roll off from 80-63hz, slightly more noticeable from 63 to 50hz, and a litlle more noticeable from 50 tp 40hz. From 40 down to 31.5hz, the bottom starts to really drop out and I didn't really want to push it any further than that, even though I was able to get some faint output at 25hz.

As Dann mentions, they are designed with the 80hz roll off, for maximum efficiency. And as I described, not until they get below 50hz, do they start to roll off more sharply. These are indeed, in my opinion, very well thought out and designed speakers. They do exactly what they were designed to do. No more!!! No less!!

[bigred7078]

Jun 11, 2009 14:28:34 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

Jun 11, 2009 14:27:29 GMT -5 soulrider4ever said:

I personally never use bookshelf's without a sub anyway. I'm so tempted to buy... mhmm

I think they actually sound pretty fat, and a sub makes 'em just so.

i think you mean to say "PHAT"

[knucklehead]

Jun 11, 2009 14:02:14 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

This is not an annoyed comment...but I get puzzled every time I hear someone say, 'These speakers don't have much bass.' We've always said that they roll off at 80Hz for maximum efficiency, and are designed to work with a subwoofer. Still, comments aplenty about the lack of bass.

It makes me think of someone plugging up a subwoofer and saying...'Hmmmm. Not much treble output.'

Point taken.

Once I remembered what these speakers were designed to do I no longer had any qualms about them. I'll get a small sub and I'm sure it will sound great.
The mids and highs are so much better than the IL30s that I don't really feel like rushing out and getting a sub.

I may just wait until Emo gets the subs out that they've been hinting about for the past 4 months or so. The non GUI ones.

What about them?

[Lonnie]

Jun 11, 2009 18:02:46 GMT -5 knucklehead said:

Jun 11, 2009 14:02:14 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

This is not an annoyed comment...but I get puzzled every time I hear someone say, 'These speakers don't have much bass.' We've always said that they roll off at 80Hz for maximum efficiency, and are designed to work with a subwoofer. Still, comments aplenty about the lack of bass.

It makes me think of someone plugging up a subwoofer and saying...'Hmmmm. Not much treble output.'

Point taken.

Once I remembered what these speakers were designed to do I no longer had any qualms about them. I'll get a small sub and I'm sure it will sound great.
The mids and highs are so much better than the IL30s that I don't really feel like rushing out and getting a sub.

I may just wait until Emo gets the subs out that they've been hinting about for the past 4 months or so. The non GUI ones.

What about them?

Well, that wasn't a personal slam, promise. As for our subs...man...they are coming. Hard to explain all the delays, but they are still coming. Don't have a date, though. I'll be happy to give a date as soon as we get one, or updates, too. We REEEEAAAALLLLLY need those things.

I plan on sneaking one of the small ones (10") home...

I think you'll find as time goes by that the ERM-1s are pretty sweet, and that the roll-off is a good thing...that do really lock up with even a small sub. I've go the crossover on mine at home set at about 100Hz, and that's the sweet spot...they really mesh.