ERM-1's Times 3 A bedroom setup

[knucklehead]

So OK, I'm officially a believer in breaking in speakers! I've had these cranked up about half way - yesterday while I went golfing - and today for about 6 hours while I was out doing business.

Probably drove the dog nuts - and like me - its a short drive! ;D ;D ;D

The more these are played the better the lows get. I'm starting to get more in the mid low bass that wasn't there yesterday when I first connected them up and lit the fire for the first time.

I just got done listening to about an hour of different music - some Enya - yeah I like her stuff - some Diana Krall - and more.

Piano has to be the hardest sound there is to reproduce properly - and the ERM-1s do it well. It sounds as if Diana is right there in the bedroom (I wish) playing - the Live from Paris album is a great sound. Starts out soft and mellow and just keeps gathering steam as she pounds the ivories and sings. And it sounds great.

FWIW these are the first speakers that really needed to have some break-in time to develop the right sounds. Looks like they will be worth keeping.

I disconnected the center ERM-1 and did a impromptu side by side listening session between the IL30s and the ERMs. While the IL30s deliver lower bass, and at a bit more volume - the ERM-1s more than hold their own by virtue of the excellent mids and highs that the IL30s just don't quite do as well. The IL30s are a great sounding speaker and are not to be taken lightly - they can surprise you with how well they do - but piano music shows you where they are lacking. Mainly the tweeter - which for years I thought was the strong suit of the Interlude lineup.

The Emotiva tweeter is just that good. And I've got nine of them in my home now!

Dann, no personal slam taken. ;D

[dotvibe]

another sub you might try is the B&W ASW610 XP, i'm loving mine. It's quite small, but very musical.

[knucklehead]

Well, after much thought and gnashing of teeth I've decided - and already done it actually - I sent the ERM-1s back. It wasn't an easy decision but I have no room for a sub in my bedroom - and no desire to get one - the IL30s didn't need the accompaniment of a sub to sound good. Too bad the ERM-1s do. They sounded sweet indeed.

But I've already agreed to sell the IL30s to my nephew - not an easy decision to make but I need the floor space - and I've bought some Infinity Beta 20 bookshelf speakers - four of them - and a C360 center to match. I got 3 of the Beta 20s today and they sound great - almost identical to the IL30s.

So, problem solved - I hated having to send the ERM-1s back - and its the first time I've sent back Emo gear. I can't imagine I'll be sending the UMC-1 back - it'll outdo the Onkyo 885 easily I'm sure.

Note to Emotiva: how about some bookshelf speakers not designed specifically for HT?

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2009 18:02:39 GMT -5 knucklehead said:

Note to Emotiva: how about some bookshelf speakers not designed specifically for HT?

Sorry fellow Washingtonian, but I have to vote the other way here. I think 90% of all people would be able to find the space for a small sub to match with the ERM-1 even in a stereo bedroom setup for music. A bookshelf speaker to go a lot lower would have to be much larger or not have excellent sound. Costco currently has an 8" Energy sub for $129. This is the same sub that is now included with the new Energy Take Classic 5.1 system. It is small and very musical, a perfect match for a small room. The ERM-1 is not designed to play without being matched with a sub either in a music or home theater system. The ERM-1 plus a quality small sub would be far superior to any pair of bookshelf speakers I know of within a reasonable price range.

[knucklehead]

chuckienut:
I agree, the ERM-1s with a small sub would sound excellent and difficult to match or beat.

But don't give the Beta 20s short shrift if you haven't heard them. They are surprisingly good. At least good enough I don't need a sub - whereas the ERM-1s do. What I am looking for is a good sounding 5.0 and I think I have that. It doesn't sound near as good as my TH setup, but I wasn't trying to emulate that in my BR, just good sound.

What I've heard on these forums concerning the ERM-1 bass extension has been conflicting. Some have stated concerns about the bass roll off at 80hz - others chime in and says not to be - there is plenty of bass with these.

Which is it?

Well, for myself that was answered with my experience over the course of a week of auditioning. There simply isn't enough bass for these to be a stand alone bookshelf speaker. Which is exactly the opposite that others have stated. This is my own impression - not to be confused with others' impressions.

As for a separate sub I suppose I could fit a sub in there if I really needed to but it wouldn't have the necessary "working room" a sub needs - it would be tight in a corner - but my point is that from the get-go my idea has always been to set up a 3.0 or 5.0 - not a 3.1/5.1. My choice. And these things always seem to snowball out of control if you let them - as witnessed by my HT - 6 months ago I had no idea I'd go from what I had them - an HK AVR 520 - 2 Infinity IL40s - 2 IL30s - JBL S Center II - to what I have now. The old setup sounded pretty good - but the snowball effect took control and look what I have now! Everything has been swapped out!

I just don't have any desire to do the same thing with something I listen to for perhaps 1-2 hours a day - if that.

[monkumonku]

Jun 19, 2009 9:36:35 GMT -5 knucklehead said:

chuckienut:
I agree, the ERM-1s with a small sub would sound excellent and difficult to match or beat.

But don't give the Beta 20s short shrift if you haven't heard them. They are surprisingly good. At least good enough I don't need a sub - whereas the ERM-1s do. What I am looking for is a good sounding 5.0 and I think I have that. It doesn't sound near as good as my TH setup, but I wasn't trying to emulate that in my BR, just good sound.

What I've heard on these forums concerning the ERM-1 bass extension has been conflicting. Some have stated concerns about the bass roll off at 80hz - others chime in and says not to be - there is plenty of bass with these.

Which is it?

Well, for myself that was answered with my experience over the course of a week of auditioning. There simply isn't enough bass for these to be a stand alone bookshelf speaker. Which is exactly the opposite that others have stated. This is my own impression - not to be confused with others' impressions.

As for a separate sub I suppose I could fit a sub in there if I really needed to but it wouldn't have the necessary "working room" a sub needs - it would be tight in a corner - but my point is that from the get-go my idea has always been to set up a 3.0 or 5.0 - not a 3.1/5.1. My choice. And these things always seem to snowball out of control if you let them - as witnessed by my HT - 6 months ago I had no idea I'd go from what I had them - an HK AVR 520 - 2 Infinity IL40s - 2 IL30s - JBL S Center II - to what I have now. The old setup sounded pretty good - but the snowball effect took control and look what I have now! Everything has been swapped out!

I just don't have any desire to do the same thing with something I listen to for perhaps 1-2 hours a day - if that.

My two cents - I have the 6.2's and the ERM-1's - both of them definitely need a sub. They might go below 80hz but you don't get the same depth of sound that a sub gives you. Like the pluck of a string on a double bass has a different timbre to it on a sub than on the Emo's. But aside from that these Emos are wonderful. I like the idea of letting the amps handle just 80hz and up to the Emos and not expending any wattage on the lower bass.

[knucklehead]

A full range monitor from Emotiva would be nice.

There are a lot of 2 way monitor speakers in the market place that get a great deal of respect. I would think Emotiva could easily do it. Perhaps a re-design of the crossovers in the 6.2?
Just thinking out loud.

[Deleted]

As I mentioned above:

".....ERM-1 is not designed to play without being matched with a sub....." They do not have low bass response, period, by intent. I am surprised by the people who use the ERM-1's and then report back that they have no low bass. Didn't they read the specs? Anyone who says, "there is plenty of bass with these" must be deaf.

I know that there might be some monitors that have a reasonable response (-3dB) down to 60Hz or so. Very few of them if any will be as small as the ERM-1 or 6.2 and have the clean and high output level when needed at 80Hz and above.

So why not match the ERM-1's with a small sub that gives response to 30-35Hz or so at -3dB's. I was not knocking the Beta's in any way, only questioning the decision not to use a sub with the ERM's. However, I would guess that the Beta's have a -3dB response maybe down to 60-65dB's at the most. Yes, that will be enough extra bass to satisfy some. They are also somewaht larger than the ERM-1's. If one did a frequency response test on them I think you would find that they probably have a peak somewhere in the 80-125 range that gives then that impression of stronger bass, besides the fact that they do go lower than 80dB.

I think Monkumonku hit it right on the nose. If one is serious about low bass even for music only a quality sub is required. Designing a monitor (in a size similar to the ERM-1 or 6.2) that goes down to 60 at -3dB's involves a lot of negative compromises in the upper ranges.

[knucklehead]

Jun 19, 2009 12:51:13 GMT -5 @chuckienut said:

I think Monkumonku hit it right on the nose. If one is serious about low bass even for music only a quality sub is required. Designing a monitor (in a size similar to the ERM-1 or 6.2) that goes down to 60 at -3dB's involves a lot of negative compromises in the upper ranges.

When I decided to assemble the BR setup it wasn't with critical listening in mind - rather it was to have something better than what comes on a tv - a 3.0 setup - then it evolved into 5.0 - but still did not have to be audiophile quality sound. For that I'd have to do some room treatment.

I'm entirely happy with the Beta 20s for sound quality and for the price.

I'll have the Beta C360 center and the 4th Beta 20 in about a week.