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Post by craftsmansky on Mar 3, 2019 16:02:42 GMT -5
any thoughts on using the TA-100 with magneplaner MMGs? will be using in a smallish room and never at extreme volume.
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Post by garbulky on Mar 3, 2019 16:36:15 GMT -5
any thoughts on using the TA-100 with magneplaner MMGs? will be using in a smallish room and never at extreme volume. Though I've never tried it, I wouldn't do it. |
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Post by Jean Genie on Mar 3, 2019 17:29:03 GMT -5
I suggest trying the A-150, but be prepared to exchange it for an A-300. Or, order both and send one (the A-150😉) back.
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Post by adaboy on Mar 4, 2019 10:12:38 GMT -5
any thoughts on using the TA-100 with magneplaner MMGs? will be using in a smallish room and never at extreme volume. In a small room it will be plenty of volume. I've run MMG's with less powerful receivers. I recommend having a sub to offload the bass. You can still run them full tilt and be ok. They really aren't that hard to drive. |
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Post by adaboy on Mar 4, 2019 10:16:07 GMT -5
any thoughts on using the TA-100 with magneplaner MMGs? will be using in a smallish room and never at extreme volume. Though I've never tried it, I wouldn't do it. Why not good buddy? The MMG's aren't that hard to drive in a small space. I've tried just about every power configuration except tube amps on them. |
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Post by mshump on Mar 4, 2019 10:37:31 GMT -5
The TA-100 will work with the MMG's
Mark
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Post by garbulky on Mar 4, 2019 11:15:19 GMT -5
Though I've never tried it, I wouldn't do it. Why not good buddy? The MMG's aren't that hard to drive in a small space. I've tried just about every power configuration except tube amps on them. Well you would know having used these bad boys! I have not used them. Though I have heard the 1.6 |
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Post by leonski on Mar 6, 2019 3:20:08 GMT -5
Magnepans ARE an easy load to drive from a simple electrical standpoint. The single fly in the ointment? They are ALSO very low in sensitivity.
Absolutely awful at turning power into acoustic output. That being said? The power of the TA-100 is very low for panel which will benefit from more and BETTER.
I ran MG-1 panels, the rough equal of the MMG for a while with a Kenwood integrated of 60x2@8 / 80x2@4 and while it worked.....and the Kenwood STILL WORKS
even though it's 35 years on, I really woke the panels up with a LOT more power. Nearly 6db greater power from a Carver M400t made quite a difference.
No matter what you say, few persons have the will (or won't!) power not to crank it up periodically or just play it a little louder once in a while. At that point, even
a 3db louder amp, call it 200 a side @4, will easily impress. Maybe the A300 or even the A150.....Or MY FIRST choice? A PAIR of the PA-1 amps. That's an End-game
choice and will survive a couple upgrade cycles, even if you move to a larger space and end up with a pair of the 1.7i or even up from there!
And Maggies ARE tube Friendly. But once again? You'll need sufficient 'juice'. Which in tube-land isn't cheap.......
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Post by donh50 on Mar 6, 2019 14:38:09 GMT -5
How small a room, how far away? At 6' away a pair driven with 50 W each will produce about 100 dB at your ears. That is pretty loud though not painfully so. Since they are 4-ohm speakers and the TA-100 is spec'd to 90 W into 4 ohms that gets you to about 103 dB (double power = 3 dB change in SPL, noticeable but small, "just a little" louder).
I have driven Maggies with everything from a 35 W/ch tube amp to a 1 kW monster SS amp. They do thrive on more power, especially the bass, but the TA-100 in a small room at moderate volume (my average level is more like 70 dB movies, 80 dB music) will probably suffice. As leonski said, their low sensitivity is the main thing that makes them need more power.
IME/IMO - Don
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Post by leonski on Mar 6, 2019 16:43:31 GMT -5
How small a room, how far away? At 6' away a pair driven with 50 W each will produce about 100 dB at your ears. That is pretty loud though not painfully so. Since they are 4-ohm speakers and the TA-100 is spec'd to 90 W into 4 ohms that gets you to about 103 dB (double power = 3 dB change in SPL, noticeable but small, "just a little" louder). I have driven Maggies with everything from a 35 W/ch tube amp to a 1 kW monster SS amp. They do thrive on more power, especially the bass, but the TA-100 in a small room at moderate volume (my average level is more like 70 dB movies, 80 dB music) will probably suffice. As leonski said, their low sensitivity is the main thing that makes them need more power. IME/IMO - Don This gets a LITTLE off the rails, but Maggies do not behave like a box speaker as far as the distance / loudness / power relationship goes. The 90 watts of the TA-100 is at 1% distortion, which though I'm not a 'spec guy' IS high and audible. This would appear as a harshness during peak levels, probably. And you needn't worry about AVERAGE loudness, but rather PEAK. 70db strikes me as 'late night, don't disturb sleepers' level while 80db is more like it. As soon as you start factoring in peaks, power needs climb rapidly. The A300 has that fan which SOME find annoying, so though it has more than enough power, I'll take off the list. I'll still go with the PA-1 since that is a going-forward choice and will survive a couple upgrade cycles. You won't end up saying 'I wish i'd bought more power'...... Tell you what I'D do....not that it matters. Go AHEAD and get the TA-100. Put it thru its paces. Think downstream if you are EVER thinking of moving the sytem to a larger space. I've heard MMG in a good 'medium large' room, of maybe 3000 cubic feet and they were FINE. But well driven AND modified by Magnestand. (Peter Gunn) Don't be afraid of taking advantage of the liberal return policy. Than consider what 270 watts, which is 4 or 5 db additional headroom will bring to the table, even at NORMAL levels. Some have beefed about the TA-100 remote / controls. See if you can live with THAT...... If you go with the PA-1, you'll need a preamp, which from the EMO line puts you at the PT-100 level? The XSP-1 is very capable but more $$ than I suspect you are in for. The PT-100 also has a useful headphone output....for late night listening. I use that approach myself. |
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Post by garbulky on Mar 6, 2019 16:48:03 GMT -5
How small a room, how far away? At 6' away a pair driven with 50 W each will produce about 100 dB at your ears. That is pretty loud though not painfully so. Since they are 4-ohm speakers and the TA-100 is spec'd to 90 W into 4 ohms that gets you to about 103 dB (double power = 3 dB change in SPL, noticeable but small, "just a little" louder). I have driven Maggies with everything from a 35 W/ch tube amp to a 1 kW monster SS amp. They do thrive on more power, especially the bass, but the TA-100 in a small room at moderate volume (my average level is more like 70 dB movies, 80 dB music) will probably suffice. As leonski said, their low sensitivity is the main thing that makes them need more power. IME/IMO - Don This gets a LITTLE off the rails, but Maggies do not behave like a box speaker as far as the distance / loudness / power relationship goes. The 90 watts of the TA-100 is at 1% distortion, which though I'm not a 'spec guy' IS high and audible. This would appear as a harshness during peak levels, probably. And you needn't worry about AVERAGE loudness, but rather PEAK. 70db strikes me as 'late night, don't disturb sleepers' level while 80db is more like it. As soon as you start factoring in peaks, power needs climb rapidly. The A300 has that fan which SOME find annoying, so though it has more than enough power, I'll take off the list. I'll still go with the PA-1 since that is a going-forward choice and will survive a couple upgrade cycles. You won't end up saying 'I wish i'd bought more power'...... Tell you what I'D do....not that it matters. Go AHEAD and get the TA-100. Put it thru its paces. Think downstream if you are EVER thinking of moving the sytem to a larger space. I've heard MMG in a good 'medium large' room, of maybe 3000 cubic feet and they were FINE. But well driven AND modified by Magnestand. (Peter Gunn) Don't be afraid of taking advantage of the liberal return policy. Than consider what 270 watts, which is 4 or 5 db additional headroom will bring to the table, even at NORMAL levels. Some have beefed about the TA-100 remote / controls. See if you can live with THAT...... If you go with the PA-1, you'll need a preamp, which from the EMO line puts you at the PT-100 level? The XSP-1 is very capable but more $$ than I suspect you are in for. The PT-100 also has a useful headphone output....for late night listening. I use that approach myself. The "intended" companion to the PA-1 is undoubtedly the DC-1 which you can get used on the forum. Its form factor matches the PA-1 to a T allowing for a super compact stack. |
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Post by leonski on Mar 6, 2019 16:51:48 GMT -5
Good input.......I never looked into the DC-1
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on Mar 6, 2019 17:59:45 GMT -5
The A-100 will work just fine with Magneplanars - which aren't especially difficult to drive. Maggies are almost purely resistive, which makes them a very easy load for most solid state amps to drive, and 4 Ohms is not at all a problem. (About the only thing you would want to avoid would be tube amps that don't have a 4 Ohm speaker output tap.)
Also, DO NOT get excited about the A-100's "90 watt at 1% THD" power rating. As with all properly designed solid state amps, the A-100 has very low distortion until you approach its limit, at which point the distortion rises suddenly. (Which means that, if rated it at 0.1% instead of 1%, it would only rate a few watts less.)
And, yes, a pair of PA-1's will deliver a lot more power... which definitely couldn't hurt.
How small a room, how far away? At 6' away a pair driven with 50 W each will produce about 100 dB at your ears. That is pretty loud though not painfully so. Since they are 4-ohm speakers and the TA-100 is spec'd to 90 W into 4 ohms that gets you to about 103 dB (double power = 3 dB change in SPL, noticeable but small, "just a little" louder). I have driven Maggies with everything from a 35 W/ch tube amp to a 1 kW monster SS amp. They do thrive on more power, especially the bass, but the TA-100 in a small room at moderate volume (my average level is more like 70 dB movies, 80 dB music) will probably suffice. As leonski said, their low sensitivity is the main thing that makes them need more power. IME/IMO - Don This gets a LITTLE off the rails, but Maggies do not behave like a box speaker as far as the distance / loudness / power relationship goes. The 90 watts of the TA-100 is at 1% distortion, which though I'm not a 'spec guy' IS high and audible. This would appear as a harshness during peak levels, probably. And you needn't worry about AVERAGE loudness, but rather PEAK. 70db strikes me as 'late night, don't disturb sleepers' level while 80db is more like it. As soon as you start factoring in peaks, power needs climb rapidly. The A300 has that fan which SOME find annoying, so though it has more than enough power, I'll take off the list. I'll still go with the PA-1 since that is a going-forward choice and will survive a couple upgrade cycles. You won't end up saying 'I wish i'd bought more power'...... Tell you what I'D do....not that it matters. Go AHEAD and get the TA-100. Put it thru its paces. Think downstream if you are EVER thinking of moving the sytem to a larger space. I've heard MMG in a good 'medium large' room, of maybe 3000 cubic feet and they were FINE. But well driven AND modified by Magnestand. (Peter Gunn) Don't be afraid of taking advantage of the liberal return policy. Than consider what 270 watts, which is 4 or 5 db additional headroom will bring to the table, even at NORMAL levels. Some have beefed about the TA-100 remote / controls. See if you can live with THAT...... If you go with the PA-1, you'll need a preamp, which from the EMO line puts you at the PT-100 level? The XSP-1 is very capable but more $$ than I suspect you are in for. The PT-100 also has a useful headphone output....for late night listening. I use that approach myself. |
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Post by donh50 on Mar 6, 2019 19:14:54 GMT -5
As leonski said Maggies act more like line sources above the bass region (basically when the wavelength approaches the panel dimensions) so do not radiate much off the sides or top and bottom. It is a figure eight pattern with loops behind and in front of the speaker. Thus, energy does not fall off as fast with distance as conventional designs, giving you an extra 3 dB or so. My previous SPL calculations took that into account FWIW. As others have said, I tend to think you'll be fine with the TA-100, and worst case you can pick up another amp later since it has preamp outputs IIRC. I drove my old MG-I's in an average room to higher volume than I should (teens are invincible don'tcha know) with a 75 W/ch tube amp. Now I have the tinnitus to prove it (though playing in bands and orchestras all these years didn't help). IME/IMO/FWIWFM/YMMV/my 0.000001 cent (microcent) - Don |
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Post by leonski on Mar 6, 2019 19:52:33 GMT -5
As leonski said Maggies act more like line sources above the bass region (basically when the wavelength approaches the panel dimensions) so do not radiate much off the sides or top and bottom. It is a figure eight pattern with loops behind and in front of the speaker. Thus, energy does not fall off as fast with distance as conventional designs, giving you an extra 3 dB or so. My previous SPL calculations took that into account FWIW. As others have said, I tend to think you'll be fine with the TA-100, and worst case you can pick up another amp later since it has preamp outputs IIRC. I drove my old MG-I's in an average room to higher volume than I should (teens are invincible don'tcha know) with a 75 W/ch tube amp. Now I have the tinnitus to prove it (though playing in bands and orchestras all these years didn't help). IME/IMO/FWIWFM/YMMV/my 0.000001 cent (microcent) - Don I abused MY MG-1s with a Carver Cube of 200x2 @8ohms. Amp and speakers went to 'redline' at the same time. At one point I had 'em in a room of AT LEAST 5000 cubic feet. A gigantic room, to be sure. |
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Post by pedrocols on Mar 6, 2019 21:44:46 GMT -5
You guys really kill me with all this unnecessary technical stuff. Just get the damn amps and if you don't like it just send them back. It's that simple!
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Post by creimes on Mar 6, 2019 23:15:09 GMT -5
You guys really kill me with all this unnecessary technical stuff. Just get the damn amps and if you don't like it just send them back. It's that simple!  |
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Post by donh50 on Mar 7, 2019 0:07:07 GMT -5
I abused MY MG-1s with a Carver Cube of 200x2 @8ohms. Amp and speakers went to 'redline' at the same time. At one point I had 'em in a room of AT LEAST 5000 cubic feet. A gigantic room, to be sure. Wimp. I drove mine with a Flame Linear 700 for a while.  Until the third time it blew up. I repaired it then sold it to a band and got something with half the power and 10x the reliability. The few times I got to set them up in a large room they were devine. |
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Post by donh50 on Mar 7, 2019 0:08:31 GMT -5
You guys really kill me with all this unnecessary technical stuff. Just get the damn amps and if you don't like it just send them back. It's that simple! Let us know where to send the flowers.  Some of us live and breathe technical stuff so it's hard to avoid. |
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Post by leonski on Mar 7, 2019 0:11:06 GMT -5
Magnepanj speakers are NOT 'regular' speakers.
they are the result of a DIY / Basement effort by the 'inventor', a man named Jim Winey. The family is still involved to this day.
It is an American Made product, from White Bear Lake Minnesota. You can get a tour of the place, and they don't do 'internet'.
As such, they have, since the first offering of the Tympani line in maybe Early 70s, achieved a sort of Cult Status. This is unlike
all but a FEW speakers. Maybe the KLH9 qualifies? Or the IRSBeta? Maybe even the JBL Paragon qualifies.
BUt one thing for certain? No other speaker is as heavily DIY'd than the Magnepan. Frames? Rewire? New Crossovers?
All are on the table.
So it should come as no surprise that a substantial amount of 'lore' and 'fact' surround the choice of amp for this lineup.
conventional wisdom often quoted and substantially wrong is that they are mainly a resistive load. Just look at a phase / impedance plot
to put that one to rest. But no wacky impedance / phase cogs which make life difficult for only OK amps.
Another idea is to choose amps that 'double up' into 4 ohms. This isn't quite right, either, as long as you get GOOD WATTS. The speaker is
revealing enough that better watts ARE better. I know people who run active crossover biamp /triamp systems. Or Parasound JC-1 monos.
Tubes are on the table, too. The factory reception area had speakers playing using a small tube amp. Fine.
So you'll have to excuse the 'fans' of these speakers if they sometimes get off into the weeds. We LIKE people to be happy with 'em. And that
starts with good amplification. That's why I'm not a big fan of the TA-100 level amp. My amps? Just to use them as a reasonable example and
not uncommon at that. The factory claim is for 1.3db headroom. That's about 270 against the RMS of 200. Nice. Figure roughly 2.7 watts
continueous and 270 peak for 20db headroom. That's Plenty of distortion free power. And I'm running 2 amps per speaker in a passive setup.
If you think me and donh50 are nutty, go over to either MUG (Magnepan Users Group) or the Planar section of Audio Asylum. We're SANE by
some measures.
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Until the third time it blew up. I repaired it then sold it to a band and got something with half the power and 10x the reliability.
