slipup
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 8
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Post by slipup on Mar 5, 2019 12:39:33 GMT -5
Hello All.
I'm new to the lounge. I'm looking for HELP in the form of questions!
Question(1): Is there a document, or other, that summarizes the differences/improvements between the generations of XPA amplifiers ?
I have searched the lounge, but maybe I missed something.
Question(2): Can you "bridge" a XPA-5 Gen1 ?
Thanks to all in advance
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on Mar 5, 2019 12:46:22 GMT -5
I don't think there's a single document that outlines the differences... although they've been discussed in various posts (perhaps someone else can help there).
You CANNOT bridge any XPA-5 .
In general, the only XPA amp that could be bridged was the XPA-2... and the only current model that can be bridged is the A-800 . (There have been a few other models from other lines in the past that could be bridged.)
Hello All. I'm new to the lounge. I'm looking for HELP in the form of questions! Question(1): Is there a document, or other, that summarizes the differences/improvements between the generations of XPA amplifiers ? I have searched the lounge, but maybe I missed something. Question(2): Can you "bridge" a XPA-5 Gen1 ? Thanks to all in advance |
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Post by novisnick on Mar 5, 2019 12:54:27 GMT -5
slipupWelcome to the nuthouse! Lots of good knowledgeable friends to be made here! So glad you found us!
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Post by leonski on Mar 5, 2019 15:33:53 GMT -5
Hello All. I'm new to the lounge. I'm looking for HELP in the form of questions! Question(1): Is there a document, or other, that summarizes the differences/improvements between the generations of XPA amplifiers ? I have searched the lounge, but maybe I missed something. Question(2): Can you "bridge" a XPA-5 Gen1 ? Thanks to all in advance Why would you Want to Bridge? |
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Post by garbulky on Mar 5, 2019 16:13:54 GMT -5
Hello All. I'm new to the lounge. I'm looking for HELP in the form of questions! Question(1): Is there a document, or other, that summarizes the differences/improvements between the generations of XPA amplifiers ? I have searched the lounge, but maybe I missed something. Question(2): Can you "bridge" a XPA-5 Gen1 ? Thanks to all in advance You should know that an XPA-5 gen 1 will use a significant portion of its unused power towards the channels that use it. So for the most part surround channels take very little power. So with just two channels driven the XPA-5 can give near the power of an XPA-2 in to two channels. |
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Post by creimes on Mar 5, 2019 18:39:00 GMT -5
Hello All. I'm new to the lounge. I'm looking for HELP in the form of questions! Question(1): Is there a document, or other, that summarizes the differences/improvements between the generations of XPA amplifiers ? I have searched the lounge, but maybe I missed something. Question(2): Can you "bridge" a XPA-5 Gen1 ? Thanks to all in advance You should know that an XPA-5 gen 1 will use a significant portion of its unused power towards the channels that use it. So for the most part surround channels take very little power. So with just two channels driven the XPA-5 can give near the power of an XPA-2 in to two channels.  |
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slipup
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 8
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Post by slipup on Mar 6, 2019 14:10:40 GMT -5
slipup Welcome to the nuthouse! Lots of good knowledgeable friends to be made here! So glad you found us. "nuthouse"....... I should fit right in.... |
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slipup
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 8
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Post by slipup on Mar 6, 2019 14:11:15 GMT -5
Hello All. I'm new to the lounge. I'm looking for HELP in the form of questions! Question(1): Is there a document, or other, that summarizes the differences/improvements between the generations of XPA amplifiers ? I have searched the lounge, but maybe I missed something. Question(2): Can you "bridge" a XPA-5 Gen1 ? Thanks to all in advance Why would you Want to Bridge? |
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slipup
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 8
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Post by slipup on Mar 6, 2019 14:20:48 GMT -5
Why would you Want to Bridge? Before I could answer that question, I needed to know if it could be done. Now I know it cannot (THANKS KeithL) I was curious to see if bridging would make an improvement in sound quality. In my small thought process, I would think that bridging would double the power thus lowering the THD. Sorry I'm trying to learn. |
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Post by donh50 on Mar 6, 2019 14:22:06 GMT -5
The gain structure changed for Gen2, not sure what if any other "significant" differences were made. IIRC correctly still class AB amps and linear power supplies. Gen3 went to new modules, an SMPS (switch mode power supply), and a class G or H design (opinions vary and documents/posts from Emotiva I have read conflict). That is, for Gen3, the amps are still class AB, but the power supply switches among two or more voltages (class G) or tracks the input (class H) to reduce average power dissipation. The Emotiva product page says "class H" but the description is of class G. I only have Gen1 amps but have not read a lot about significant sound differences among them so it would seem their sonic character is generally unchanged (as one would hope).
AFAIK only the XPA-2 was bridgeable, and I think that was dropped at Gen3. Bridging is a trade that has some significant compromises so if you really need more power getting a more powerful amp that offers higher power, whether bridged by design or not, is probably a better choice IME/IMO.
FWIWFM - Don
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on Mar 6, 2019 15:11:14 GMT -5
The "official" descriptions of Class G and Class H operation are somewhat vague and have a lot of overlap. We refer to our topology as "Soft Switch Class H".
The high-power output modules in our current XPA amps have a Class A/B output stage with dual power supply rails. At low power they operate from the lower rails... And, at higher power, the upper rails supply current at the higher voltage when necessary... (Whichever name you prefer to use, this makes for somewhat higher efficiency, and somewhat cooler operation, in the middle of their power range.)
The power supply is indeed a regulated switch mode power supply (SMPS).
They are also modular... which means that, if you have available slots, you can send your amp in to have more channels added later if you need them. You can also mix and match between high-power single channel modules and lower power stereo modules on the XPA series...
And the higher-power fully differential XPA-DR chassis can hold one, two, or three channels...
Sonically, we design all our amps to be as neutral as possible, and we're pretty good at it, so there are no major differences there.
The gain structure changed for Gen2, not sure what if any other "significant" differences were made. IIRC correctly still class AB amps and linear power supplies. Gen3 went to new modules, an SMPS power supply, and a class G or H design (opinions vary and documents/posts from Emotiva I have read conflict). That is, for Gen3, the amps are still class AB, but the power supply switches among two or more voltages (class G) or tracks the input (class H) to reduce average power dissipation. The Emotiva product page says "class H" but the description is of class G. I only have Gen1 amps but have not read a lot about significant sound differences among them so it would seem their sonic character is generally unchanged (as one would hope). AFAIK only the XPA-2 was bridgeable, and I think that was dropped at Gen3. Bridging is a trade that has some significant compromises so if you really need more power getting a more powerful amp that offers higher power, whether bridged by design or not, is probably a better choice IME/IMO. FWIWFM - Don |
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Post by leonski on Mar 6, 2019 16:49:49 GMT -5
As it turns out? FEW users of amps in bridged mode get a SQ improvement. Many even report poorer sound. If you think you need more power, buy a better and more powerful amp. Evaluate your listening habits. How loud DO you like it? How sensitive (loudness @ 1watt / 1 meter, typically) are your speakers? I personally recommend more power for a couple reasons. You like nosebleed levels. You might have very low sensitivity speakers, like panels. You need to think 'forward' to the next setup. Junking the whole thing out and starting over is ALWAYS expensive so try to think forward. Over the years I've been thru several upgrade 'cycles', trying to learn as I went and not always going forward! OOOPS! |
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Post by davidl81 on Mar 6, 2019 17:38:19 GMT -5
Hello All. I'm new to the lounge. I'm looking for HELP in the form of questions! Question(1): Is there a document, or other, that summarizes the differences/improvements between the generations of XPA amplifiers ? I have searched the lounge, but maybe I missed something. Question(2): Can you "bridge" a XPA-5 Gen1 ? Thanks to all in advance I think it would help if you told us your current (or planned) setup. What are you planning to drive with the XPA-5. The XPA-5 is a very stout amp and in a HT setting it will push almost any speaker in the world without any issue. And I would argue that in a HT setup one could really hear a difference between the XPA-5 and most amps that cost 2-3 times as much. Now if you are looking for a 2 channel only setup there are better amps (specific stereo amps) and I find that in 2 channel is really where you can hear a difference in these amps. |
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Post by Ex_Vintage on Mar 6, 2019 17:56:39 GMT -5
I think it would help if you told us your current (or planned) setup. What are you planning to drive with the XPA-5. The XPA-5 is a very stout amp and in a HT setting it will push almost any speaker in the world without any issue. And I would argue that in a HT setup one could really hear a difference between the XPA-5 and most amps that cost 2-3 times as much. Now if you are looking for a 2 channel only setup there are better amps (specific stereo amps) and I find that in 2 channel is really where you can hear a difference in these amps.I have an XPA-5 Gen 3 and use it primarily for 2 .1 channel (at least that is where I care the most about sound quality). I agree there are better purpose built 2 channel amps out there for stereo only listening, but I would argue that there are not many at the XPA-5 price point. What specifically do you find with sound quality where you can hear the difference? |
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Post by davidl81 on Mar 6, 2019 21:35:07 GMT -5
I think it would help if you told us your current (or planned) setup. What are you planning to drive with the XPA-5. The XPA-5 is a very stout amp and in a HT setting it will push almost any speaker in the world without any issue. And I would argue that in a HT setup one could really hear a difference between the XPA-5 and most amps that cost 2-3 times as much. Now if you are looking for a 2 channel only setup there are better amps (specific stereo amps) and I find that in 2 channel is really where you can hear a difference in these amps.I have an XPA-5 Gen 3 and use it primarily for 2 .1 channel (at least that is where I care the most about sound quality). I agree there are better purpose built 2 channel amps out there for stereo only listening, but I would argue that there are not many at the XPA-5 price point. What specifically do you find with sound quality where you can hear the difference? I did not mean it as a slight to the XPA-5 as I have a Gen 2 and it is an excellent amp. My point was if he was only using it for two channel (thus the question about bridging the amp) then he would be better off with a dedicated two channel amp. My DR-2 is slightly better than my XPA-5 in 2 channel use, but I agree then difference is not earth shattering. Just a slight bit more punch and bass, but it could almost be a placebo effect. |
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slipup
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 8
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Post by slipup on Mar 7, 2019 11:50:54 GMT -5
Hello All. I'm new to the lounge. I'm looking for HELP in the form of questions! Question(1): Is there a document, or other, that summarizes the differences/improvements between the generations of XPA amplifiers ? I have searched the lounge, but maybe I missed something. Question(2): Can you "bridge" a XPA-5 Gen1 ? Thanks to all in advance I think it would help if you told us your current (or planned) setup. What are you planning to drive with the XPA-5. The XPA-5 is a very stout amp and in a HT setting it will push almost any speaker in the world without any issue. And I would argue that in a HT setup one could really hear a difference between the XPA-5 and most amps that cost 2-3 times as much. Now if you are looking for a 2 channel only setup there are better amps (specific stereo amps) and I find that in 2 channel is really where you can hear a difference in these amps. |
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slipup
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 8
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Post by slipup on Mar 7, 2019 11:51:26 GMT -5
When reading this please keep in mind that I’m inexperienced and my intentions are to convey to you my end goal/wishes. Any suggestions are welcome!
Currently, I have a XPA-5 and PT-100 running two channels. One room is wired for three speakers and another wired for two speakers using 10 gauge copper stranded speaker wire. The wire run on the two speaker room is 30’and the three speaker room 20’. All components are shelved in a dedicated closet and controlled throughout the house with IR repeaters. The XPA-5 has a dedicated 120vac/20amp breaker.
My future plans are to drive the XPA-5 with two pre-amps. One for the three speaker room and one for the two speaker room. With this I have different controls for each room.
In the three speaker room (16’x22’) I am searching for a very high quality refined sound. This room will be an area to listen to music at its best (within $ ). The volume level will be at low to medium setting. Any help in speaker selection would be appreciated.
In the two speaker room (18’x 24’) I’m searching for pure power and concert sound. I want it to take me back in time. Think..1978 listening to a Pioneer Spec 1 & 2 driving Cerwin Vegas. Not perfect sound, but rough aggressive floor shaking sound. The area will be used for kicking back and taking the edge off life after a bad day. Any help in speaker selection would be appreciated.
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Post by davidl81 on Mar 7, 2019 12:06:28 GMT -5
When reading this please keep in mind that I’m inexperienced and my intentions are to convey to you my end goal/wishes. Any suggestions are welcome! Currently, I have a XPA-5 and PT-100 running two channels. One room is wired for three speakers and another wired for two speakers using 10 gauge copper stranded speaker wire. The wire run on the two speaker room is 30’and the three speaker room 20’. All components are shelved in a dedicated closet and controlled throughout the house with IR repeaters. The XPA-5 has a dedicated 120vac/20amp breaker. My future plans are to drive the XPA-5 with two pre-amps. One for the three speaker room and one for the two speaker room. With this I have different controls for each room. In the three speaker room (16’x22’) I am searching for a very high quality refined sound. This room will be an area to listen to music at its best (within $ ). The volume level will be at low to medium setting. Any help in speaker selection would be appreciated. In the two speaker room (18’x 24’) I’m searching for pure power and concert sound. I want it to take me back in time. Think..1978 listening to a Pioneer Spec 1 & 2 driving Cerwin Vegas. Not perfect sound, but rough aggressive floor shaking sound. The area will be used for kicking back and taking the edge off life after a bad day. Any help in speaker selection would be appreciated. Ok, This give me a lot better understanding of what you are looking for. I really like the XPA-5 for your setup. The XPA-5's power rating is with all channels driven, they way it is designed allows it to push more power than rated when only using two or three channels. I would stick with that amp for a while. Later on if you find a killer deal on a XPA-2 or XPR-2 amp then maybe jump on it, but I would not be in a rush on that at all. Speaker wise that opens up a ton of options. For your two channel room what price range are you look at on a pair of speakers? Are you open to running a dedicated sub with the tower speakers? I have really nice Mirage OMD-28's and I still pair them with powered subs since even with dual 8" woofers they cannot compare in the low range with a true dedicated sub. The Emotiva speaker line is a fine speaker at the price point. The T2's are really good and you can get away without a sub. You could also do a pair of T1's at the close out price of $500, and use the other $500 towards a sub. Just tons of options. |
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Post by garbulky on Mar 7, 2019 14:38:09 GMT -5
When reading this please keep in mind that I’m inexperienced and my intentions are to convey to you my end goal/wishes. Any suggestions are welcome! Currently, I have a XPA-5 and PT-100 running two channels. One room is wired for three speakers and another wired for two speakers using 10 gauge copper stranded speaker wire. The wire run on the two speaker room is 30’and the three speaker room 20’. All components are shelved in a dedicated closet and controlled throughout the house with IR repeaters. The XPA-5 has a dedicated 120vac/20amp breaker. My future plans are to drive the XPA-5 with two pre-amps. One for the three speaker room and one for the two speaker room. With this I have different controls for each room. In the three speaker room (16’x22’) I am searching for a very high quality refined sound. This room will be an area to listen to music at its best (within $ ). The volume level will be at low to medium setting. Any help in speaker selection would be appreciated. In the two speaker room (18’x 24’) I’m searching for pure power and concert sound. I want it to take me back in time. Think..1978 listening to a Pioneer Spec 1 & 2 driving Cerwin Vegas. Not perfect sound, but rough aggressive floor shaking sound. The area will be used for kicking back and taking the edge off life after a bad day. Any help in speaker selection would be appreciated. Emotiva t1 Or t2 for your three speaker room. Tekton pendeagons or lore speakers for your aggressive room |
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Post by donh50 on Mar 7, 2019 14:47:45 GMT -5
Comments on bridging:
Bridging an amplifier uses two channels in opposite polarity to swing twice the voltage across the load (your speaker). That ideally doubles the voltage and quadruples (4x) the power. Power goes as voltage squared. Few amplifiers can support the extra current and thermal (heat) management needed to deliver that much power. The power supply, wiring, and output transistors must all handle the extra current without overheating or melting something (hopefully the fuse first).
Since two amplifiers are now driving the same load in a bridged scheme, each amplifier channel "sees" one-half the load impedance. That means an 8-ohm speaker looks like a 4-ohm load to a bridged amplifier, and a 4-ohm speaker like mine looks like 2 ohms. Take a speaker with a dip down to 2 ohms or so and that's a 1-ohm load to a bridged amplifier. IN addition to being able to handle the power and such, the amp must be stable into such a low load impedance, making a nasty load even nastier.
It is rather common for amplifiers to be rated for twice the load impedance in bridged mode. That is, an amplifier rated to a 2 or 4 ohm load may be rated into 4 or 8 ohms when bridged. When I asked Emotiva about bridging my XPA-2 to drive my Maggies, a nominal 4-ohm load, they advised against it. It would probably work but I have plenty of power to make me deaf so I passed.
HTH - Don
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