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Post by garbulky on Mar 29, 2019 9:07:34 GMT -5
FWIW, I think this whole thing about innacuracy is that the meters are calibrated for one setting (8 ohms?) but the speakers impedance changes so it's not easy to know exactly what power the amps are actually delivering.
Also the XPA-1 gen 1 and 2 (and I think the XPA-2 gen 1 and 2) have LED meters. Those channel lights that indicate that a channel is working is actually a strip of channel lights across the panel and they light up depending on the power use. I've found it impossible to make my XPA-1 gen 2 max out on those led lights as it just got too loud!
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 29, 2019 9:12:35 GMT -5
Why would I want a disguised lying pair of voltmeters on my amp? It's as crude as having a color organ as part of your speakers. Oh Mann...you’re taking me back with the Color Organ. My first task as a teenager, (reading a schematic,) to assemble a Radio Shack Color organ kit for a friend of mine. He was doing light shows for live bands back when that was a big deal. Showed up at my house with a box of parts and a long look on his face. Worked right out of the gate without blowing anything up. Bill |
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ff151
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by ff151 on Mar 29, 2019 9:20:03 GMT -5
All good points to the discussion. Maybe its nostalgia that is getting to me as in the late 70s and early 80s I think it was an anomaly nor ro have some form of wattage meter. I also am a local bar gigging musician so a bit of a gear hog. My sound board is an Allen and Heath qu32 which has lots of meters for obvious reasons. The art of panning to provide more dynamics can be seen in the meters with not so busy recordings, which personally I find interesting. Not to say I stare at them but have looked at certain passages. If accurate, the meters can also provide a measure of safety for speakers and amp. Good points guys, thankyou. Now Emotiva, please give us the option and make one with LARGE meters pls  |
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Post by mgbpuff on Mar 29, 2019 10:24:36 GMT -5
Why would I want a disguised lying pair of voltmeters on my amp? It's as crude as having a color organ as part of your speakers. Oh Mann...you’re taking me back with the Color Organ. My first task as a teenager, (reading a schematic,) to assemble a Radio Shack Color organ kit for a friend of mine. He was doing light shows for live bands back when that was a big deal. Showed up at my house with a box of parts and a long look on his face. Worked right out of the gate without blowing anything up. Bill I built an Eico Kit Color organ way back then also. |
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Post by vcautokid on Mar 29, 2019 10:36:38 GMT -5
Lets see, unless they account for the impedance load on them they are basically eye candy. Better than a VU meter which is utterly useless. A reserve meter that shows dynamically how much reserve power is left before clipping. One that is hyper accurate and very fast and easy to read. Kind of like a PPM. But we are dreaming here. There is no way these would make it to production. Costs are another factor. Now that I have employed reverse psychology, maybe Emotiva will make something after all.😁😁😁😁😁
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Mar 29, 2019 11:36:44 GMT -5
The meter in the old Sunfire amps shows you "the amount of power remaining in the power supply's power banks" or "how far away the amp is from running out of power"....... (Basically it's showing you "when the power supply is getting loaded down".)
I've always liked big blue meters - but mostly for decoration.
And, yes, it is possible to make very accurate meters, by using voltage and current sensors, and a processor to calculate the measurements, then simply using the meter to display them. Doing it this way, you can in fact make meters that actually calculate "real power", and even take the load impedance into account. (The theory is simple.... you measure the voltage, and the current, and multiply them together... depending on how you do it, you can measure "VA" or "real watts" - which are both perfectly valid things to measure but are somewhat different).
However, it's both complicated and expensive to do it right, and mechanical meter movements are both somewhat expensive and somewhat prone to breaking... Which is why not many people bother these days.
You can also get some pretty cool new meters that basically display a picture of a meter, displaying actual information, on a video screen......
(You'll find plenty of "meter plugins" for "watching meters" on your computer....)
Would you please create this amp? XPA-DR2-Vu , Do you think this would be a future possibility for your 2 channel amplifiers? Old is new again. There are very few manufacturers that have this on usually their top end amplifiers. A quick google search shows there are audiophiles that actually look for this visual feature....Please make one, I will order yesterday!!  Anyone else want one? (please put blue LED's in to light up the meters) FF Oh I hope not! No accuracy, they tell you the things on and that’s about it. But what do I know.....people go ga ga for shiny tubes, so why not VU ‘s?? My Sunfire has a backwards meter! That means when the amp. triggers ON, the meter goes all the way over, indicating full power. Supposedly, when you start reaching the amplifier limits, it starts dropping. I have never seen it move down (17 years and counting) My bridged Carver monoblocks had red led power meters. Those leds worked well enough to give you some indication of where you were at when cranking it. . Bill |
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Post by geeqner on Mar 29, 2019 12:33:34 GMT -5
If one WERE to "do" Meters -
My idea of making them look Cool is Onkyo M-504
THOSE Meters are BIG and they look like they mean "business" (google it and you'll see what I mean)
I know that the Aqua-Green may not be in keeping with Emotiva's Color Scheme
I like the way they look and they are what I call "semi-cool Audio Eye Candy" - But do they really tell you anything USEFUL?
Maybe they could be made as an Optional Front Faceplate "Upgrade" and use "Virtual" (LCD) Meters with configured options to show ACTUAL Power into Load and maybe make the upper part of the arc blink RED or Orange for various levels of Clipping..
But I generally prefer a simple set of LEDs for Power and maybe a clipping or Fault indication
(maybe provide Hi and Lo brightness settings for those who like to listen in the dark and don't want their eyeballs exposed to unnecessarily bright LEDs - I LIKE that feature on my BlueSound Node 2i...)
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ff151
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by ff151 on Mar 29, 2019 14:17:37 GMT -5
I've always liked big blue meters
And, yes, it is possible to make very accurate meters, (The theory is simple.... Soooooooooooooooo,.........you are saying there is a chance ?
and yes, the photoshopped image I created was using the new Onkyo meters from their M5000R amp which is their current version of the 504. However, price point is 4k Cdn.
Oh I hope not! No accuracy, they tell you the things on and that’s about it. But what do I know.....people go ga ga for shiny tubes, so why not VU ‘s?? My Sunfire has a backwards meter! That means when the amp. triggers ON, the meter goes all the way over, indicating full power. Supposedly, when you start reaching the amplifier limits, it starts dropping. I have never seen it move down (17 years and counting) My bridged Carver monoblocks had red led power meters. Those leds worked well enough to give you some indication of where you were at when cranking it. . Bill |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 29, 2019 15:19:06 GMT -5
As I mentioned, the major reasons we haven't done this are the cost, and the fact that mechanical meters are somewhat prone to both failure and breakage. (And, the bigger and more impressive they are, the more they cost, and the more likely they are to get broken in shipping.)
I would NOT say we are at all likely to come out with an amp with meters on it... or a meter bridge that could be used with whatever amp you have. However, I would not entirely rule it out either... And, yes, if a lot of people were to express an interest, it couldn't hurt the odds...  I've always liked big blue meters
And, yes, it is possible to make very accurate meters, (The theory is simple.... Soooooooooooooooo,.........you are saying there is a chance ?
and yes, the photoshopped image I created was using the new Onkyo meters from their M5000R amp which is their current version of the 504. However, price point is 4k Cdn.
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Post by adaboy on Mar 29, 2019 15:26:13 GMT -5
As I mentioned, the major reasons we haven't done this are the cost, and the fact that mechanical meters are somewhat prone to both failure and breakage. (And, the bigger and more impressive they are, the more they cost, and the more likely they are to get broken in shipping.) I would NOT say we are at all likely to come out with an amp with meters on it... or a meter bridge that could be used with whatever amp you have. However, I would not entirely rule it out either... And, yes, if a lot of people were to express an interest, it couldn't hurt the odds... Interest Expressed! |
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Post by Jean Genie on Mar 29, 2019 19:37:13 GMT -5
+1
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Post by patate91 on Aug 2, 2019 20:40:58 GMT -5
As I mentioned, the major reasons we haven't done this are the cost, and the fact that mechanical meters are somewhat prone to both failure and breakage. (And, the bigger and more impressive they are, the more they cost, and the more likely they are to get broken in shipping.)
I would NOT say we are at all likely to come out with an amp with meters on it... or a meter bridge that could be used with whatever amp you have. However, I would not entirely rule it out either... And, yes, if a lot of people were to express an interest, it couldn't hurt the odds... A numerical VU Meter would be nice : W and Ohms digits display. |
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Post by DavidR on Aug 2, 2019 22:30:18 GMT -5
I thought I might go crazy when I got my first SA-250 as it does not have meters but I got used to it rather quickly. If they built this amp with those cool looking meters it should be a dual mono layout and be a stellar performer with awesome SQ.
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Post by kierre on Jan 10, 2020 12:41:05 GMT -5
Since I'm in the market for another Emotiva amplifier anyway, if there was an option for one with the meters, I would choose that option. My model for reference would be the Sony TA-N77ES. Love that amp first, and I love that look second! I'm actually waiting on a friend of mine to sell me his because the prices on this one just keep going up. I'll always have space in my rack for it should the right opportunity present itself.
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 11, 2020 11:02:17 GMT -5
The latest version of my amp. has a clean neat faceplate with some simple trim and a BLUE pilot light (that should keep any Emo. fan happy!
No useless, meaningless meters or lights to distract from a performance.
I’m actually amazed that the light bulb on my older version has yet to burn out....probably because I have left it permanently in the low position.
Anyway, your EARS are the greatest power meters you can get your hands on. I believe most Audio fans with an acute sense of what’s going on are well aware if the amplification power is meeting (or exceeding) their listening demands.
Bill
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Post by mfeust on Jan 12, 2020 9:45:12 GMT -5
I wish I never sold my RPA-1.
Mark
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Post by rockman85 on Jan 13, 2020 12:55:28 GMT -5
I too think those meters looks amazing, it gives you the sense that your amplifier is really doing something sciency in there. Would also order yesterday.
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Post by vcautokid on Jan 13, 2020 13:38:16 GMT -5
I love meters too. Grew up with them for a long long time. Reality though. You really don't need them. No seriously. Though the McIntosh amps and others are amazing with theirs. What does it really buy you. Come on now, be honest. Other than knowing where clipping might be and depending on accuracy and ballistics, how useful is it really? Also economies of scale. Costs! Great meters are NOT cheap. Are you willing to pay for those really or is this about a nice to talk about feature? Keeping it real folks. If everyone really wants meters for their amps and are willing to pay for that feature for real, then, the team at Emotiva needs to get going on that. Reaľity tells me that a very small percentage will really fork out the costs for these things. But hey I have been wrong before, and if there is enough of a furor for meters, then I am onboard. Lets rock folks!
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Post by davidl81 on Jan 13, 2020 15:58:51 GMT -5
Heck I get excited looking at the amp draw on my Panamax when I'm listening to music. I love meters, always have for some reason. Even back to the days of having a Kenwood graphic EQ in my car and watching the bands light up as music played.
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 14, 2020 10:04:38 GMT -5
Ha Ha! One thing’s for sure HERE....I’m outnumbered when it comes to caring about VU meters!
As much as I couldn’t care less about them, it should be noted that every high power amplifier I’ve owned since the mid seventies has had them....(they were simply there) be it VU or pulsating lights on the Carvers.
The 1.0t’s were bridged and with 1000 watt overkill, those lights didn’t jump around all that much.
Bill
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