Should I upgrade amp or not?

[martindktm]

Currently running a Emotiva PT-100, paired on a vintage Bose 1801 amplifier that talks to a pair of Focal Aeria 926 tower (bought 2 weeks ago). 

Would I gain anything ditching the old traditional powered 1801 to an XPA-2 Gen 3... with that clipping transfo stuff?

Martin

[creimes]

You could take advantage of the 30 day trial as really only you would be able to know if it is an upgrade or not, your room your ears and your gear, pretty much the whole reason for the 30 day trial, you would be out return shipping only.

Cheers,
Chad

[martindktm]

Being in Canada screw the 30 day's a bit I think...

[creimes]

There are still a few Canadian retailers that also do the 30 day trial.

Quebec Acoustic (R)

643 Cure-Labelle

Blainville, Québec J7C 2J3

Phone: [phone]

Email: [e-mail]


Or




First Choice Audio Video (CI)

Saskatoon, SK S7K4V3

Phone: [phone]

Email: [e-mail]

[martindktm]

I bought my Pt-100 at Quebec Acoustic. I idn't know that they offered the 30 day trial. I thought it was only an online thing strait with the company.

[creimes]

Apr 3, 2019 17:52:49 GMT -5 martindktm said:

I bought my Pt-100 at Quebec Acoustic. I idn't know that they offered the 30 day trial. I thought it was only an online thing strait with the company.

I was under the impression they did but now I'm not sure, I would call Emotiva and ask them.\

Chad

[leonski]

Focal calls the 926 91.5db sensitivity. It really makes good use of available power.

What would YOU think an upgrade would be? Louder? Clearer? More 'slam'?

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that the PA-1 of 135 per amp @8ohms would generate put you out of your house.......loudness.

Unless you are running those Focals to the edge of distortion, you will never use XPA kind of power.

If your dealer offers the 30 day feature? Take advantage of it and try a 600$ pair of monos before going all-out with the XPA.

[leonski]

I just did some reading on the Bose 1801. A real monster, going near-90lb. And a few 'fatal flaws' putting it in line with the Phase Linear 400 for 'amp most likely to destroy your speakers'.

I'm thinking fairly Early SS which means that for the most part, not as refined a sound as later amps. The very Earliest SS wasn't very musical. Could be harsh, too. Even the first generation

McIntosh Receiver sells for just a few $$ to fans of vintage these days. Mediocre reputation for sound.

I just think you can better that Bose amp in so many ways....audible, measurable and being able to skip the Hernia Belt when you move it......

[martindktm]

It's that I might like to refresh/upgrade the old 1801. Change some caps in it clean the button contact and add a protection in it that would save my speaker in case of trouble... That will take me a few months working on it a few hours at a time. So I need something to replace it during that period.

And while doing that I would like to try something else that I might like. That might sound better than a 44 year old rig. And once work is done on the 1801 I would decide which one I would keep...and sell one of the 2 that I like less.

That's why I was thinking on the Xpa-2 gen 3 because its close to the 1801 in power. Otherwise there is the A-300 but I'm afraid that it might miss some power compare to that 1801 monster. I did not thought about a pair of monoblock. The Pa-1 is a bit ugly to tell the truth and many people seems to speaks bad thing about sound quality of class D amp. So I don't know. Never heard one play.

[novisnick]

Apr 22, 2019 5:22:34 GMT -5 martindktm said:

It's that I might like to refresh/upgrade the old 1801. Change some caps in it clean the button contact and add a protection in it that would save my speaker in case of trouble... That will take me a few months working on it a few hours at a time. So I need something to replace it during that period.

And while doing that I would like to try something else that I might like. That might sound better than a 44 year old rig. And once work is done on the 1801 I would decide which one I would keep...and sell one of the 2 that I like less.

That's why I was thinking on the Xpa-2 gen 3 because its close to the 1801 in power. Otherwise there is the A-300 but I'm afraid that it might miss some power compare to that 1801 monster. I did not thought about a pair of monoblock. The Pa-1 is a bit ugly to tell the truth and many people seems to speaks bad thing about sound quality of class D amp. So I don't know. Never heard one play.

I’ve heard very favorable reviews of the PA-1 Monoblocks, I’m a fan and would recommend them. I’ll bet you lunch at my place you won’t ever listen to the old amp for very long after a comparison. 
Bery reasonably priced as well.

[jlafrenz]

When you ask a bunch of audio enthusiasts if you should upgrade or buy new gear the answer is always going to be YES!

[vcautokid]

Apr 22, 2019 5:22:34 GMT -5 martindktm said:

It's that I might like to refresh/upgrade the old 1801. Change some caps in it clean the button contact and add a protection in it that would save my speaker in case of trouble... That will take me a few months working on it a few hours at a time. So I need something to replace it during that period.

And while doing that I would like to try something else that I might like. That might sound better than a 44 year old rig. And once work is done on the 1801 I would decide which one I would keep...and sell one of the 2 that I like less.

That's why I was thinking on the Xpa-2 gen 3 because its close to the 1801 in power. Otherwise there is the A-300 but I'm afraid that it might miss some power compare to that 1801 monster. I did not thought about a pair of monoblock. The Pa-1 is a bit ugly to tell the truth and many people seems to speaks bad thing about sound quality of class D amp. So I don't know. Never heard one play.

Lets think about this here. This amplifier is older than the hills. I remember this amplifier as a kid. I am freaking old! First of all you want to be certain the Capacitors are really bad. If all original? Probably. But if they are great quality, maybe not. They need to be tested for ESR, and their current true measured value vs. the specification of the part and tolerance. You just can't guess. Also yeah, protection on these amps was primative at best. It goes down, so do your speakers! I have nothing against vintage amps, but they have a true reputation of going up in smoke. Phase Linear comes to mind first.

Some of the old Harman Kardon stuff too! That is just 2! Speakers usually end up a casualty too in one way or another. Also an amp this old most likely has design weaknesses that will show over the years. Bad resisitors, driver transistors, and so on. Forget about being a Google Technician by the way.

This amplifier needs to be gone through from front panel all the way back to the binding posts. This can be a great amplifier, but it should be fully tested for its age all components. This will not be cheap. A qualified technician who is good, will charge accordingly. Also spares support. What will that be like. What if it uses this out production driver transistor and it is no longer in production and no current equivalent?

An old Sansui high end power amplifier I was thinking of the BA-3000, is like the Japanese Krell. Freaking beast of an amplifier, but I won't buy one because the support is so bad, because it is so old. Or the integrated I was thinking about that is real killer till I found out the ring emitter transistors are no longer made, and no equivalent.

Who knows maybe the Filter capacitors and a few other things need replacing. That would be great, but there might be other things going on you can't hear. You just don't know. I just want you going into this thing both eyes open, and possibly what you are in for. Notice I am not making a recommendation for amplifiers here. That is done in the other posts already. I am just making you aware what a vintage amplifier might be like to get back up to specifications. I wish you the best in your endeavors.

[leonski]

Vac has a number of good points.

First? Capacitors. The big 'lytics in the PS should last 25 to 30 years in regular service. 40 is pushing it, just like my Kenwood KA7100. You should be able to go by printed value, keeping in mind the awful build tolerence of such parts. +-20% is usual.
ESR is important to stability. That CAN be measured, of course. I don't know how much that REALLY matters in the PS.

Second? Resistors. Carbon resistors age poorly, absorb moisture and generally can be considered noisy. Modern Film types are vastly superiour and should be a drop-in replacement.

Third? Semiconductors. Replaement guides exist for obsolete types. I think the BOSE amp is pre-FET, so you will be looking for BiPolar.

Finally? Proprietary parts. I doubt they used anything 'custom made'...at least electronically. Custom wound transformer? You MIGHT be able to find a modern Plitron Toroid if THAT'S ever an issue. You'll need to know a bunch of stuff from VA rating to number and voltage of outputs.....
You'll NEVER find a new circuit board, probably. I don't see how that could be possible unless somebody squirrelled away a box of stuf 30 years ago and is willing to part it out.

But the REAL issue, IMO is 2-fold.
How much power do you REALLY need? With speakers of such good sensitivity, 20 or 30 watts would be very loud. Too loud, even. 15 watts with 10db headroom? That's REAL loud and the neighbors will be angry with you.
Your Focals will take good bursts of power, probably. I wouldn't count on factory 'power' ratings unless I knew how they were taken. But LONG TERM high power? You'll be into it for a driver or 2 in No Time.

[26gary26]

Be thankful for the amount of use you have received from your equipment. I also have vintage Pioneer equipment from the 1970's. I paid to have all the caps replaced
and controls cleaned. It played great for about 6 months, then a bunch of transistors went out. All these replacement parts and repairs cost close to a $1,000.00.
I finally gave up after last repairs and past it down to my daughter who stir has it today and it is playing fine. She loves it for sentimental value. So the Pioneer still works but I invested in Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 3 and and XSP1 Gen 2 and realized what I have missed in the advancement of stereo's over the years. Good luck with your decision.  

[creimes]

Apr 22, 2019 5:22:34 GMT -5 martindktm said:

It's that I might like to refresh/upgrade the old 1801. Change some caps in it clean the button contact and add a protection in it that would save my speaker in case of trouble... That will take me a few months working on it a few hours at a time. So I need something to replace it during that period.

And while doing that I would like to try something else that I might like. That might sound better than a 44 year old rig. And once work is done on the 1801 I would decide which one I would keep...and sell one of the 2 that I like less.

That's why I was thinking on the Xpa-2 gen 3 because its close to the 1801 in power. Otherwise there is the A-300 but I'm afraid that it might miss some power compare to that 1801 monster. I did not thought about a pair of monoblock. The Pa-1 is a bit ugly to tell the truth and many people seems to speaks bad thing about sound quality of class D amp. So I don't know. Never heard one play.

There is an XPA-2 Gen3 for sale on Canuck Audio Mart

www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649516390-emotiva-xpa2-gen3-two-channel-power-amp/

[martindktm]

You guy's are quite right in all your comments. But I might get on the project of working a bit on the old 1801 anyway. I love the unit and love old stuff. But just for the thrill of it. I did one of the service bulletin (changed some goodies on the amp boards) by myself and change the inputs outputs plate (Rca in and Banana out) on it right from the day bought it. It's been running fine everyday since I own it +/- 6 years. I had found and bought the thing in a pawn shop for 200$. Was a good deal when I see at how much they go on the net. It was used previously in a bar before I owned it..

Thanks for the link for the used one on cannuck. I also saw an used A-300 on another selling web site. I will think about it all and let you know on what I will go for my next amp... But I love my old Bose...It's just...Something else....