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Post by mgbpuff on Apr 17, 2019 8:51:50 GMT -5
I'm getting pissed with transport mechanisms changing. I had an ERC-1 which had a tray mechanism fail with no repair parts available. I replaced it with an ERC-3 which now I find out has a disc mechanism that is also cancelled. Arghh!
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Post by Bonzo on Apr 17, 2019 8:52:14 GMT -5
And since I'm ignorant to such things, I have to assume the use of these chips vs ones used in a processor like the RMC-1 or XMC-1 has to do with 2 channel vs multi-channel, or some other reasons (I would welcome a full explanation. Otherwise, why would they not just use the same chip here as they are using in the RMC-1?
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Post by Bonzo on Apr 17, 2019 8:54:44 GMT -5
I'm getting pissed with transport mechanisms changing. I had an ERC-1 which had a tray mechanism fail with no repair parts available. I replaced it with an ERC-3 which now I find out has a disc mechanism that is also cancelled. Arghh! Unfortunately this is one time I don't think we can blame Emotiva. Unless they front the cash to design, develope and make their own, this could be a prospective problem for every disc player maker until they eventually go away forever. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Apr 17, 2019 8:54:50 GMT -5
And since I'm ignorant to such things, I have to assume the use of these chips vs ones used in a processor like the RMC-1 or XMC-1 has to do with 2 channel vs multi-channel, or some other reasons (I would welcome a full explanation. Otherwise, why would they not just use the same chip here as they are using in the RMC-1? Based on what I know, the DAC chips in the RMC/XMC are not specifically for home theater. In fact, as I recall, they are using at least 1 chip per channel on the processors. Mark |
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Post by tchaik on Apr 17, 2019 8:57:28 GMT -5
I'm getting pissed with transport mechanisms changing. I had an ERC-1 which had a tray mechanism fail with no repair parts available. I replaced it with an ERC-3 which now I find out has a disc mechanism that is also cancelled. Arghh! according to lonnie, the tray mechanisms are made by other vendors and emotiva has to change when the vendor is no longer manufacturing the tray mechanism. with streaming and downloads, the availability of competing vendors and tray mechanisms is dwindling. |
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Post by mgbpuff on Apr 17, 2019 9:01:05 GMT -5
I'm getting pissed with transport mechanisms changing. I had an ERC-1 which had a tray mechanism fail with no repair parts available. I replaced it with an ERC-3 which now I find out has a disc mechanism that is also cancelled. Arghh! Unfortunately this is one time I don't think we can blame Emotiva. Unless they front the cash to design, develope and make their own, this could be a prospective problem for every disc player maker until they eventually go away forever. They could keep some parts around to at least cover the warranty period and perhaps beyond. Depending on suppliers to keep valid replacement parts is lame and a shallow business practice. If it's worth building, it's worth supporting. |
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Post by amped on Apr 17, 2019 9:20:24 GMT -5
Buy a quality deck/transport and the DACs will go out of date or favor long before the drawer fails, Remember you get what you pay for and a "heavy" piece of gear DOES NOT EQUATE WITH A QUALITY PIECE OF GEAR...I had the ERC 1,2 and 3 and all had components that failed. That being said 3-$400 decks are filled with planned obsolescence. Get a real high quality piece of gear off the secondary market, pay about half of retail (if not less) and change out an outboard DAC(s)with a newer one when you please.
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Apr 17, 2019 10:07:08 GMT -5
I'm getting pissed with transport mechanisms changing. I had an ERC-1 which had a tray mechanism fail with no repair parts available. I replaced it with an ERC-3 which now I find out has a disc mechanism that is also cancelled. Arghh! I don't know how accurate that info is: the first tray (ERC-1, ERC-2) was Toshiba and was discontinued. There was a lot of fuss on the board about it and one person sent links to where to get replacement trays from third-party vendors. The transport mechanism in the ERC-3 is for DVD players and seems rather unremarkable and generic compared with the the original loaders of the ERC-1 and 2. |
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Post by Bonzo on Apr 17, 2019 10:45:35 GMT -5
Buy a quality deck/transport and the DACs will go out of date or favor long before the drawer fails, Remember you get what you pay for and a "heavy" piece of gear DOES NOT EQUATE WITH A QUALITY PIECE OF GEAR...I had the ERC 1,2 and 3 and all had components that failed. That being said 3-$400 decks are filled with planned obsolescence. Get a real high quality piece of gear off the secondary market, pay about half of retail (if not less) and change out an outboard DAC(s)with a newer one when you please. My Sony CD player tray from 1995 is metal and is still going strong after all these years. Its still the fastest, quietest, most sturdy and easiest loading tray I have ever owned. Unfortunately the days of super high quality trays are numbered. I've seen ones on super expensive players in the last 10 years that are complete garbage in comparison. |
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Post by vcautokid on Apr 17, 2019 10:48:35 GMT -5
The important fact here folks parts are not forever. They produce a number, use them up, that is all folks. Ever try to get a brand new Philips CDM-9 PRO? Good luck and have fun with that. Also remember allot of vendors may use the same transport and when demand is high, supply is limited. Kind of simple really.
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Post by Bonzo on Apr 17, 2019 10:50:48 GMT -5
And since I'm ignorant to such things, I have to assume the use of these chips vs ones used in a processor like the RMC-1 or XMC-1 has to do with 2 channel vs multi-channel, or some other reasons (I would welcome a full explanation. Otherwise, why would they not just use the same chip here as they are using in the RMC-1? Based on what I know, the DAC chips in the RMC/XMC are not specifically for home theater. In fact, as I recall, they are using at least 1 chip per channel on the processors. Mark I'm not sure your response answers my question. Let me put it another way. Without using exact chip names or numbers, if the RMC-1 is to be the ultimate sounding processor, and uses chip set A, why would they currently use any other chip set than that one in their new CD player or DAC? Why would they use a completely different chip made by a completely different MNF? I have a theory. So their products don't completely overlap each other and it gives people reason to buy their other products. If there is a better answer, I'd like to know. I'd like to learn something today. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Apr 17, 2019 11:57:48 GMT -5
Based on what I know, the DAC chips in the RMC/XMC are not specifically for home theater. In fact, as I recall, they are using at least 1 chip per channel on the processors. Mark I'm not sure your response answers my question. Let me put it another way. Without using exact chip names or numbers, if the RMC-1 is to be the ultimate sounding processor, and uses chip set A, why would they currently use any other chip set than that one in their new CD player or DAC? Why would they use a completely different chip made by a completely different MNF? I have a theory. So their products don't completely overlap each other and it gives people reason to buy their other products. If there is a better answer, I'd like to know. I'd like to learn something today. If it were me, I'd use he same chips if I could - saves development effort and streamlines supply. The different products can prevent overlap by being different enough in ways other than the chipset...stand alone DAC's have a market, pre/pro's have a market, and even within pre-pro's they can differentiate based on features (like they are doing with the XMC-2, RMC-1L, and RMC-1. Mark |
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Post by Bonzo on Apr 17, 2019 14:19:12 GMT -5
I'm not sure your response answers my question. Let me put it another way. Without using exact chip names or numbers, if the RMC-1 is to be the ultimate sounding processor, and uses chip set A, why would they currently use any other chip set than that one in their new CD player or DAC? Why would they use a completely different chip made by a completely different MNF? I have a theory. So their products don't completely overlap each other and it gives people reason to buy their other products. If there is a better answer, I'd like to know. I'd like to learn something today. If it were me, I'd use he same chips if I could - saves development effort and streamlines supply. The different products can prevent overlap by being different enough in ways other than the chipset...stand alone DAC's have a market, pre/pro's have a market, and even within pre-pro's they can differentiate based on features (like they are doing with the XMC-2, RMC-1L, and RMC-1. Mark +1. Exactly. I get using the best chip at the time, this years latest greatest, but if this year we are to get the DC-2, ERC-4, XMC-2, and RMC-1L, it should make sense that they all use the same DAC. At least it would to me. Can anyone else explain why this wouldn't make sense? Why would the ERC-4 have a different chip? |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Apr 17, 2019 14:38:20 GMT -5
If it were me, I'd use he same chips if I could - saves development effort and streamlines supply. The different products can prevent overlap by being different enough in ways other than the chipset...stand alone DAC's have a market, pre/pro's have a market, and even within pre-pro's they can differentiate based on features (like they are doing with the XMC-2, RMC-1L, and RMC-1. Mark +1. Exactly. I get using the best chip at the time, this years latest greatest, but if this year we are to get the DC-2, ERC-4, XMC-2, and RMC-1L, it should make sense that they all use the same DAC. At least it would to me. Can anyone else explain why this wouldn't make sense? Why would the ERC-4 have a different chip? The only thing I can figure out is that, perhaps, they want to do minimal work on the CD player to allow more time (with their limited resources) to work on the processors, DAC, thin client streamers, and other RMC-1 expansion modules. If all they do for the ERC-4 is a new disk tray/reader - that's pretty low effort. With CD use on the decline and streaming increasing, that's what I would do. Mark |
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Post by Bonzo on Apr 17, 2019 15:27:42 GMT -5
+1. Exactly. I get using the best chip at the time, this years latest greatest, but if this year we are to get the DC-2, ERC-4, XMC-2, and RMC-1L, it should make sense that they all use the same DAC. At least it would to me. Can anyone else explain why this wouldn't make sense? Why would the ERC-4 have a different chip? The only thing I can figure out is that, perhaps, they want to do minimal work on the CD player to allow more time (with their limited resources) to work on the processors, DAC, thin client streamers, and other RMC-1 expansion modules. If all they do for the ERC-4 is a new disk tray/reader - that's pretty low effort. With CD use on the decline and streaming increasing, that's what I would do. Mark That makes sense. So I guess one might assume the sound quality would be the same as before, just a new "center position" tray (yeah!), and digital inputs. Not as much as some have hoped, but since CD players aren't in much demand, makes sense. As for a DC-2, I would probably think differently. |
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Post by mgbpuff on Apr 18, 2019 11:54:09 GMT -5
The important fact here folks parts are not forever. They produce a number, use them up, that is all folks. Ever try to get a brand new Philips CDM-9 PRO? Good luck and have fun with that. Also remember allot of vendors may use the same transport and when demand is high, supply is limited. Kind of simple really. I'm sorry, it is not so simple. When a manufacturer commits to building a product, he must plan on an expected life line of support i.e. he invests in an inventory of parts to support in the field units fully aware that some parts could be discontinued in the future. He concentrates on having a supply set aside. If he does not do this, he is a speculative opportunist, not a reliable manufacturer. |
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Post by Bonzo on Apr 18, 2019 12:54:52 GMT -5
The important fact here folks parts are not forever. They produce a number, use them up, that is all folks. Ever try to get a brand new Philips CDM-9 PRO? Good luck and have fun with that. Also remember allot of vendors may use the same transport and when demand is high, supply is limited. Kind of simple really. I'm sorry, it is not so simple. When a manufacturer commits to building a product, he must plan on an expected life line of support i.e. he invests in an inventory of parts to support in the field units fully aware that some parts could be discontinued in the future. He concentrates on having a supply set aside. If he does not do this, he is a speculative opportunist, not a reliable manufacturer. +1. But this is Emotiva. They can't even replace caps in the not very old SA-250. I'm not going to lie, if I had the cash I'd skip on Emotiva all together and go with something like Bryston. Alas, I don't, so I go with the best bang for the buck. Once upon a time that was ONLY Emotiva. Now not so much. But I will consider this new ERC-4 as a replacement for my Sony if it dies. Only time will tell. |
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Post by vcautokid on Apr 18, 2019 14:06:07 GMT -5
The important fact here folks parts are not forever. They produce a number, use them up, that is all folks. Ever try to get a brand new Philips CDM-9 PRO? Good luck and have fun with that. Also remember allot of vendors may use the same transport and when demand is high, supply is limited. Kind of simple really. I'm sorry, it is not so simple. When a manufacturer commits to building a product, he must plan on an expected life line of support i.e. he invests in an inventory of parts to support in the field units fully aware that some parts could be discontinued in the future. He concentrates on having a supply set aside. If he does not do this, he is a speculative opportunist, not a reliable manufacturer. Sorry not a reality for most. If you spend large fine, but even they are constrained by the supply line of spares. However how that is interpreted is not my worry. They get a short supply of spares, and once it's gone it's gone. There is no endless well of spare parts. Try to find specific ring emitter transistors. Good luck with that. And have fun with that. The days of stock piling parts are just long gone in the main stream. |
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Post by cwt on Apr 21, 2019 13:52:07 GMT -5
+1. Exactly. I get using the best chip at the time, this years latest greatest, but if this year we are to get the DC-2, ERC-4, XMC-2, and RMC-1L, it should make sense that they all use the same DAC. At least it would to me. Can anyone else explain why this wouldn't make sense? Why would the ERC-4 have a different chip? Can think of a few reasons Bonzo ; dacs can be complicated ie what they can handle format wise for one . It would make no sense to choose a dac with dsd capability in a plain cd payer - as an example burr brown made a pcm version and a dsd version of the same chip . The rmc1 etc all accept dsd .. Other reasons could be for upsampling or what bit depth is required of the dac ; a cd player only has 16/44.1 to handle ; A rmc1 handles processes at 32 bit iirc ie 24/192 downloads are no problem . Heres a pdf showing the philosophy of Anthem vvv ; they love oversampling lower bit depth signals ; dacs and the interaction with the following analog stages are what you pay for and why the rmc1's dual differential dacs are theoretically superior due to common mode noise reduction to a single ended design . Its also nice the ERC4 will have dual differential dacs and circuitry to feed the completely balanced input to output circuitry of the reference line and then certain dual diff power amps . So the whole system will have common mode noise reduction if you fancy this  www.anthemav.com/downloads/Upsampling.pdf |
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Post by jmasterj on Apr 21, 2019 15:53:42 GMT -5
I was rummaging the other day and came across my ERC-1 owners manual inside I found the packing slip which states I became a member of the Emotiva family September 16th 2010. My ERC-1 will be nine years old in September. It's been serviced once. After I had it about a year they had to replace the loader and I believe they replaced it with a ERC-2 loader it's been flawless every since. I don't have any plans to stream music I'll play CD's as long as I have a devise to play them with Emotiva has earned my loyalty my next player will be Emotiva...
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