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Post by pop on Apr 24, 2019 18:48:47 GMT -5
As I wait for my Schiit Freya to be delivered I’ve been using the Oppo 105 balanced out directly into my Airmotiv 6s. I must say it sounds fantastic. I was told by a Oppo enthusiast client of mine that the 105 should not be used as a preamp directly into powered speakers or amplifiers.
I ordered the Freya on this principal and other things I have read online regarding the oppos downfall as a preamp. However, the real life testing proves the 105 to be a very capable musical preamp directly out to powered speakers.
What gives? Anyone else using or have used an Oppo as a preamp? I’m quite blown away. I understand it can most definitely be used as a preamp, was simply always told it shouldn’t be. And not in regards to getting a more obtainable unit, but that it simply should not be used in this manner. Is that because of the digital volume control?
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Post by garbulky on Apr 24, 2019 18:50:35 GMT -5
pop I have used the Oppo as a preamp on many different amps and speakers. In all, they have let me down.
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Post by mountain on Apr 24, 2019 19:07:26 GMT -5
I used the Oppo 105 as a preamp for awhile without any problems playing all disc formats. Sounded and worked fine. My problem was playing the scientific American cable tv box (suddenlink) through the Oppo via hdmi. Very slow and cumbersome. A down right pain.
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Post by pop on Apr 24, 2019 22:46:03 GMT -5
Well, I’m sold. I see no need for the Freya in this System. I’m shocked how well it sounds. I moved my XMC down and hooked it up to AB back and forth. The XMC has a bit better detail, but I had to listen intently to try and find a difference. My wife who has a better ear than myself prefers the XMC as well but by a tiny margin.
Once again, Oppo proves to be one of the finest pieces of audio equipment ever designed.
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Post by The History Kid on Apr 24, 2019 23:57:46 GMT -5
When I had sent my Fusion 8100 in for service, I used my 103 as a preamp and immediately regretted it. Very noisy. Ended up running everything through an XDA-2 instead until I got the Fusion back. I tried a number of different settings to fix the issue running the 103 to the UPA-2 I had, but it was so darn noisy I eventually just gave up. I still have the 103 - running it through HDMI is no problem, but would never run it as a pre again.
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Post by pop on Apr 25, 2019 0:27:01 GMT -5
When I had sent my Fusion 8100 in for service, I used my 103 as a preamp and immediately regretted it. Very noisy. Ended up running everything through an XDA-2 instead until I got the Fusion back. I tried a number of different settings to fix the issue running the 103 to the UPA-2 I had, but it was so darn noisy I eventually just gave up. I still have the 103 - running it through HDMI is no problem, but would never run it as a pre again. 105 is dead silent |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 25, 2019 3:19:26 GMT -5
Hi pop - Don't let 'em drag you down. I used my 105 as a preamp and it did a great job. In fact, I went through preamp after preamp expecting improvement, and it was always "one step forward and two steps back" until... I finally found a preamp I like (called the Audio-GD HE-1), but your tastes may differ from mine. I'm currently running the Oppo UDP-205. Initially, it was bright and irritating, but over time, it's settled down to being a more neutral component. I've used it both as a DAC only, or as a combo preamp/DAC. In fact, I'm currently reviewing an Audio Research tube power amp, and the best sound I've gotten from that amp so far is by using the 205 as a preamp/DAC directly into the amp. For some reason, this amp sounds better direct from the Oppo than it does with the (otherwise excellent) Audio-GD preamp in the middle. So synergy is where you find it. You like the sound of your Oppo directly into an amp? Use it that way. You aren't alone, and despite the whines of the "you've got to have a preamp" crowd, they aren't always right. Now I must admit that having a GOOD preamp in the system can enhance the musical presentation, but only with some components. And, as I said earlier, there's no such thing as the perfect preamp. They ALL change the sound in some way. Is the convenience of input switching worth that sonic change? To me, and for most preamps, the answer is "no." So ultimately, my advice is to ignore all preamp advice (including mine) and to trust your own ears. If you like the sound of your 105 used as a combo preamp/DAC, then use it that way without worry. Cheers - Boom PS: I predict that the Freya may not do it for you. It didn't for me... |
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Post by audiobill on Apr 25, 2019 4:21:13 GMT -5
Nor for me.
But, my SP14, with all tubes and a huge power supply really does drive my power amps well.
A capable preamp or none at all in this case.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 25, 2019 9:03:30 GMT -5
Well, I’m sold. I see no need for the Freya in this System. I’m shocked how well it sounds. I moved my XMC down and hooked it up to AB back and forth. The XMC has a bit better detail, but I had to listen intently to try and find a difference. My wife who has a better ear than myself prefers the XMC as well but by a tiny margin. Once again, Oppo proves to be one of the finest pieces of audio equipment ever designed. The XMC-1 is a good yarstick for comparison. If that doesn't do much better for you than the Oppo then you are good with the Oppo. |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 25, 2019 9:14:34 GMT -5
Hi pop - Don't let 'em drag you down. I used my 105 as a preamp and it did a great job. In fact, I went through preamp after preamp expecting improvement, and it was always "one step forward and two steps back" until... I finally found a preamp I like (called the Audio-GD HE-1), but your tastes may differ from mine. I'm currently running the Oppo UDP-205. Initially, it was bright and irritating, but over time, it's settled down to being a more neutral component. I've used it both as a DAC only, or as a combo preamp/DAC. In fact, I'm currently reviewing an Audio Research tube power amp, and the best sound I've gotten from that amp so far is by using the 205 as a preamp/DAC directly into the amp. For some reason, this amp sounds better direct from the Oppo than it does with the (otherwise excellent) Audio-GD preamp in the middle. So synergy is where you find it. You like the sound of your Oppo directly into an amp? Use it that way. You aren't alone, and despite the whines of the "you've got to have a preamp" crowd, they aren't always right. Now I must admit that having a GOOD preamp in the system can enhance the musical presentation, but only with some components. And, as I said earlier, there's no such thing as the perfect preamp. They ALL change the sound in some way. Is the convenience of input switching worth that sonic change? To me, and for most preamps, the answer is "no." So ultimately, my advice is to ignore all preamp advice (including mine) and to trust your own ears. If you like the sound of your 105 used as a combo preamp/DAC, then use it that way without worry. Cheers - Boom PS: I predict that the Freya may not do it for you. It didn't for me... I think you've held a slightly different viewpoint of the Oppo when we were comparing them to preamps. I agree that most standalone preamps do tend to color the signal in some way, but in terms of driving the power amps and dynamics, I recall we both tended to find preamps more punchy and more "solid" within the frequency range. The Oppo feels like it almost thins out in the dynamics and lower mids. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 25, 2019 9:42:20 GMT -5
And I found that it depends a LOT on the power amp being driven...
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Post by pop on Apr 25, 2019 14:17:04 GMT -5
What I’ve noticed through the Airmotiv 6s is a slight bump in low frequencies and actually a bit too relaxed in the highs. So I’ve trimmed up HF and trimmed down LF through the speakers function and it’s become a quite harmonious sound.
I am playing around with panel placement. I’ve lowered the panels originally in the middle and added 2 on the outside of them elevated slightly. This seems to have given me a rather linear sound that I’m enjoying a lot. If anything maybe just a bit of enjoyable sparkle on the higher frequencies. Removing the panels off the side wall produced the perfect amount of highs. So far where I’m at vocals in this room and configuration are more natural than I have yet to experience. Very cool.
I’m as impressed with the Oppo as a preamp as I am the XMC, And various Rotel gear I’ve cycled through the house as of late.
One interesting observation and very noticeable is the DAC in the Schiit Modi Multibit into the vallhalla 2 has a substantially larger soundstage and tighter mid bass than single ended out of the Oppo to the other vallhalla. I didn’t expect to like the Schiit Multibit more than the Sabre, but my wife and I both easily agreed the Modi Multibit was superior. An hour of switching back and forth listening to Melody Gardot “who will comfort me” revealed excellent detail and effortless portrayal of the recording room. The horns have excellent fade on their decay and the reverb of the studio walls is very pleasant and a very cool experience. I’ve been using this song for 6 years now so I know it very well. Through the Schiit Multibit I heard detail I’ve never heard before.
So for me in this simple small 11x12 listening room I’ve found perfect harmony with the equipment being used. Most notably is the great sound and excellent feature set in the Oppo for exactly what I need out of a preamp/source. With Netflix and Vudoo embedded in it as well as access to tidal, my disc collection, and Blu-ray audio, plus my 2,000 plus Blu-ray’s. I’ve got a one source/preamp that does everything I need. I always knew the 105 capabilities but had never utilized them to their full extent. I am pushing the 105 for everything it’s worth and it’s amazing.
I did order a second Modi Multibit to bypass the single ended into one of the Vallhallas. This is a win win seeing as how I believe the Multibit DAC sounds better, and also allows me to not have to turn the oppos volume up all the way to control the headphone amp. Last night I had forgotten the Oppo was at Max volume and I accidentally flipped on the speakers. To say it was loud is an understatement. So I can maintain variable volume to the speakers and only rely on volume adjustment from the headphone amps.
On another not. Schiit modi Multibit - Vallhalla 2 - Sennheiser HD650 (Massdrop version) comes out to around $900 with shipping from Schiit. At this price, if setting up headphones on a budget, I am floored by the results. Makes me feel silly for all the high dollar Planar I have owned and beefy headphone amps. It’s not the best I’ve heard, but for reference it sounds better than my HA1 - Audeze LCDX setup. Yes I said better. More mid bass in the LCDX, but that can be good or bad.
All in all, I am extremely satisfied and tickled by the low cost of this setup and the performance I am getting. I’ll put up a full opinion later with pics etc.
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Post by pop on Apr 25, 2019 14:18:38 GMT -5
Nor for me. But, my SP14, with all tubes and a huge power supply really does drive my power amps well. A capable preamp or none at all in this case. Have you used a 105 as a preamp? I think you should try it. Not saying it would be any better or worse, but it’s extremely capable. |
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Post by audiobill on Apr 25, 2019 14:26:42 GMT -5
Yes, tried one years ago and thought it was "tizzy".
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Post by knucklehead on Apr 25, 2019 17:39:10 GMT -5
Using the Oppo as a preamp isn't a crime! The problem with the volume control with an Oppo is similar to the problems of using an XDA-1 as a preamp, digital volume control. Some people here the problem, others do not. I've used both as a preamp at times. What I hear is that fuzzy sounds in the higher notes, especially with female voices, mostly in the very high notes. YMMV.
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 28, 2019 2:56:42 GMT -5
...A capable preamp or none at all... Best quote in the thread - maybe best for the year. But the devil's in the details, and there are many valid definitions for that pesky little word "capable." Yet your quote should still be printed, framed, and hung on the wall of every audiophile. I firmly believe that preamps are harder to do right than any other audio component. |
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Post by pop on Apr 28, 2019 11:21:08 GMT -5
I’m wondering if maybe there was a firmware update somewhere along the lines that helped the 105.
I’m particularly blown away honestly. I sell lots of high end McIntosh, audio research etc. I am not claiming the oppo is on the same level, and obviously it’s hard to compare and contrast without same room and same speakers.
But it sounds good enough. And I bought this 105 4 years ago for $150 when they rolled out all the old 105 for darbee models. My boss sold me this one dirt cheap as a thank you.
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 29, 2019 5:53:23 GMT -5
You know, my 205 started sounding better about the time of the first firmware update - I'd forgotten about that...
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Post by vcautokid on Apr 29, 2019 6:46:40 GMT -5
Ideally Preampliers should not add or take anything away. It is a source selector and attenuation device.
Okay now that's out of the way. The Oppo 105 is way different than the 103 in execution. The 103 to me was not satisfactory. I always wondered about the 105 since more of its reason for being was the more "Audiophile" intent of its design and execution. I am not surprised that the 105 does well for you. It may actually be close to my first statement opening.
Then there is the "like" factor, and I am staying out of that. A total waste of time on that part. Self explanatory.
I already had the XMC-1 and also even a capable mixer in my project studio at the time so I have grown accustomed to the sound they both deliver and was let down using the 103 or any other player with the intent of it being a Preamplifier. The 105 is a different fish altogether, but still in a simple 2 channel only with powered monitors, why not? For me it is a bust because I already have what I need and want. But sure the 105 with powered monitors or amp will do fine. If it has the functionality you want and you liked the final result, done!
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