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Post by brubacca on May 8, 2019 16:23:45 GMT -5
So Rega Planar 2 owners. What cartridges are you using?
The Planar 2 (2016) has the RB220 tone arm and apparently its difficult to pair a cartridge with. I've seen several threads on this over at vinyl engine. Basically you should match the height of the carbon and also the new cart should have a tracking force of 2g. (Antiskate set at factory for 2g)
Seems to me the easiest upgrade is the LP Gear replacement stylus options. There is a vivid line diamond for $80.
At $675 for the table I know you shouldn't do an expensive cart.
I'm seriously considering the Hana EH. Seems to be close in weight (0.5g less), about the same height (best I can tell) and recommended tracking force of 2g.
Anyone else changed carts on a Planar 2?
(Please don't tell me to get a P3 or RP3 or higher, I'm just not doing that)
Apparently Regas other cartridges are a poor match for this table.
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Post by dsonyay on May 8, 2019 16:51:08 GMT -5
Hi I use a Nagaoka MP-110. It works well, and tracking for it is 1.5 to 2.0 gr. At 2.0 grams it sounds great.
But hey.. nothing wrong with the Carbon and doing stylus upgrades. There's a lot of options there.
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Post by dsonyay on May 8, 2019 16:52:21 GMT -5
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Post by dsonyay on May 8, 2019 17:11:22 GMT -5
The Rega Carbon is an AT91 .. uses Carbon cantilever with a bonded conical shaped stylus. Yes, there a few upgrades you can make by swapping a much better stylus .. it would be easier and probably very noticeable. Probably easier on the wallet as well. Try that first. Here is LP Gears elliptical stylus upgrade that would fit the Rega Carbon cartridge. You could still use the 2.0 tracking force, although it's just a tad lighter than ideal tracking force. But still falls in the range they recommend. It's 30 bucks too. www.lpgear.com/product/ATN91.html |
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Post by brubacca on May 8, 2019 17:15:06 GMT -5
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Post by dsonyay on May 8, 2019 17:24:50 GMT -5
Looks like a very good stylus.. but will that fit the Rega Carbon cartridge? The Rega Carbon is an AT91 cartridge.
The stylus you have a link to is designed for another type AT cartridge .. maybe it also fits AT91?
I don't have any experience with the Hana cartridges.
I would try the 30 dollar upgraded AT91 replacement stylus.. i linked to it above.
Or if the one you link to will fit into an at91, that's a great upgrade as well.
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Post by brubacca on May 8, 2019 17:28:19 GMT -5
Looks like a very good stylus.. but will that fit the Rega Carbon cartridge? The Rega Carbon is an AT91 cartridge. The stylus you have a link to is designed for another type AT cartridge .. maybe it also fits AT91? I don't have any experience with the Hana cartridges. I would try the 30 dollar upgraded AT91 replacement stylus.. i linked to it above. Or if the one you link to will fit into an at91, that's a great upgrade as well. At91 and 3600 are the same I believe. (Or 360, I have it bookmarked on my PC from a thread I saw) |
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Post by dsonyay on May 8, 2019 17:34:17 GMT -5
Ahh ok.. yeah, sometimes a lot of styli will crossover to different cartridges. About the Hana.. yeah, it's likely a very nice upgrade, and yes, pricey. Make sure others have had success using it with the P2. I'm unfamiliar with the dimensions etc. Your preamp has MC selection right? For me, I'd go with stylus replacement first. That's just me of course  |
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Post by dsonyay on May 8, 2019 17:36:49 GMT -5
Let is know what you decide.. and how it works out.
Heck, I may buy the Vivid stylus and put the Carbon back on to compare.
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Post by brubacca on May 8, 2019 20:08:39 GMT -5
I would think that the vivid line stylus should keep the general character of the table with adding to the detail and frequency extremes. Yes, I probably just convinced myself to just do this first. No harm, no foul.
I read on another forum, that the diamond cut is similar to that of the exact cartridge.
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Post by dsonyay on May 8, 2019 22:19:03 GMT -5
Yes let us know There are some fun hacks to adjust the preset bias of 2 grams on these TTs and allow one to use a few more cartridges with lighter tracking forces, but for me I'm sticking with ones that like 2 gr as well. Man, I recently learned this limitation too. Kinda sucks, yes, but the P1 and p2 are kinda entry level, so I guess they figure we'd leave the stock cartridges alone. Lol.. no one does that on a TT. |
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Post by novisnick on May 8, 2019 22:24:15 GMT -5
Yes let us know There are some fun hacks to adjust the preset bias of 2 grams on these TTs and allow one to use a few more cartridges with lighter tracking forces, but for me I'm sticking with ones that like 2 gr as well. Man, I recently learned this limitation too. Kinda sucks, yes, but the P1 and p2 are kinda entry level, so I guess they figure we'd leave the stock cartridges alone. Lol.. no one does that on a TT. You looking for a RP 6? LOL |
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Post by dsonyay on May 9, 2019 7:47:16 GMT -5
If I would upgrade.. maybe a p3.. or it would have to be a stellar deal for a p6.. it's just way over my budget. I'm very happy with the P2 for now. It's so quiet my old ears hear nothing but the music.
The limitation of the P2 is not a big issue.. there's tons of cartridges to choose from with a 2 gr tracking force..
But there's a fairly simple way around all of this- by adjusting the magnet position under the tonearm..the magnet is used to set bias. A simpler way is to add a small magnet near one of the mounting screws to counter the main magnet.
I was playing around with this last week and was kinda relieved at how easy this was to do. But in my case my Nagaoka upgrade plays fine at 2 gr. The cartridge is just a tiny bit taller but the tonearm is not off enough to warrant shimming the base.
As for the bias.. I do see a bit of a pull of the cartridge towards the outside (barely) when playing, so it's possible the factory was just a bit off with the magnet position they used. I could add some stylus force, but Nagaoko recommends 2gr as max
Ok.. so.. The other limitation is if the cartridge is is too tall, you may need to shim the tonearm to lift the base (to keep tone arm level).. but doing this prevents the lid from closing because the counterweight would contact the lid. If the cartridge is shorter than the Rega Carbon, a thicker mat needs to be used... Aye yi yi. LoL.
Rega assumes the types that buy a P1 and P2 will leave these tables alone and only replace the stylus is necessary. And there are some great styli to swap to .. really good ones. The carbon is a very common AT base with a few excellent styli that will swap over to it.
I suppose buying an RB330 arm would solve all this.. but they are not cheap.. about 400 and change.
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Post by amped on May 9, 2019 9:40:07 GMT -5
So Rega Planar 2 owners. What cartridges are you using? The Planar 2 (2016) has the RB220 tone arm and apparently its difficult to pair a cartridge with. I've seen several threads on this over at vinyl engine. Basically you should match the height of the carbon and also the new cart should have a tracking force of 2g. (Antiskate set at factory for 2g) Seems to me the easiest upgrade is the LP Gear replacement stylus options. There is a vivid line diamond for $80. At $675 for the table I know you shouldn't do an expensive cart. I'm seriously considering the Hana EH. Seems to be close in weight (0.5g less), about the same height (best I can tell) and recommended tracking force of 2g. Anyone else changed carts on a Planar 2? (Please don't tell me to get a P3 or RP3 or higher, I'm just not doing that) Apparently Regas other cartridges are a poor match for this table. Can't speak to the Planer but I can give a hardy thumbs up to the Hana Line of Carts...I have had 2 and both played WAY above their paygrade! The problem with any table (arm) that you don't have the ability to adjust VTA you are stuck with few choices of Carts...I would just upgrade the table/arm or both. |
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Post by dsonyay on May 9, 2019 9:51:14 GMT -5
Yes.. it would be great if Rega would allow for at least anti-skating adjustment. But overall, these are great turntables.
Btw.. I notice the Hana MC cartridge comes in two flavors.. Low Output or High Output? Why is this? Doea it depend on what type preamp you have?
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on May 9, 2019 10:45:02 GMT -5
Basically - yes - but it goes a bit further.
A moving coil (MC) cartridge has two really tiny coils of wire that generate the output signal when they move in the field created by a magnet.
In general, the amount of output you get is determined by the strength of the magnet, the spacing of the parts inside, and how many turns of wire make up each coil.
Therefore, for various mechanical and electrical reasons, the high-output version probably has coils made up of more turns of thinner wire. Because of this the coils in the two cartridges will have different electrical characteristics (resistance and inductance) and different mechanical properties (weight). As a result, all else being equal, in addition to the output level, they probably actually sound slightly different.
In addition to this, MC cartridges have a very low output level, which requires a special preamp. However, even beyond that general statement, the output on a "low output MC cartridge" will be especially low.
And, because we're working with very small signals, the background noise on some preamps may be annoying when you turn the gain up enough to work with a very low output cartridge.
Even beyond that, MC cartridges generally deliver an output level that is far lower than a typical MM cartridge (which is why they require a different preamp circuit). However, there are a few specially designed MC cartridges that actually put out enough signal to work with some MM preamps.
The bottom line is that one or the other version of the cartridge may work better with your particular preamp - and they probably do sound a bit different. Check the manufacturer's specs and make sure the one you pick will work well with your preamp. (Many aficionados seem to agree that, due to lower inductance, and lower coil mass, low output MC cartridges sound better - but they may be noisy with some preamps.)
Yes.. it would be great if Rega would allow for at least anti-skating adjustment. But overall, these are great turntables. Btw.. I notice the Hana MC cartridge comes in two flavors.. Low Output or High Output? Why is this? Doea it depend on what type preamp you have? |
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Post by dsonyay on May 9, 2019 11:05:19 GMT -5
Basically - yes - but it goes a bit further.
A moving coil (MC) cartridge has two really tiny coils of wire that generate the output signal when they move in the field created by a magnet.
In general, the amount of output you get is determined by the strength of the magnet, the spacing of the parts inside, and how many turns of wire make up each coil.
Therefore, for various mechanical and electrical reasons, the high-output version probably has coils made up of more turns of thinner wire. Because of this the coils in the two cartridges will have different electrical characteristics (resistance and inductance) and different mechanical properties (weight). As a result, all else being equal, in addition to the output level, they probably actually sound slightly different.
In addition to this, MC cartridges have a very low output level, which requires a special preamp. However, even beyond that general statement, the output on a "low output MC cartridge" will be especially low.
And, because we're working with very small signals, the background noise on some preamps may be annoying when you turn the gain up enough to work with a very low output cartridge.
Even beyond that, MC cartridges generally deliver an output level that is far lower than a typical MM cartridge (which is why they require a different preamp circuit). However, there are a few specially designed MC cartridges that actually put out enough signal to work with some MM preamps.
The bottom line is that one or the other version of the cartridge may work better with your particular preamp - and they probably do sound a bit different. Check the manufacturer's specs and make sure the one you pick will work well with your preamp. (Many aficionados seem to agree that, due to lower inductance, and lower coil mass, low output MC cartridges sound better - but they may be noisy with some preamps.)
Yes.. it would be great if Rega would allow for at least anti-skating adjustment. But overall, these are great turntables. Btw.. I notice the Hana MC cartridge comes in two flavors.. Low Output or High Output? Why is this? Doea it depend on what type preamp you have? Really good info Keith.. I have an XSP1 gen2 (and 1) as well as a PT-100. Which MC types would they prefer? Either? I know my XSP1 has different selections for the MC cartridge, but can't remember what the PT100 has |
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Post by brubacca on May 9, 2019 12:40:55 GMT -5
Hana EH --> Elliptical Stylus High Output
Haha EL --> Elliptical Stylus Low Output
Haha SL --> Shibata Styles Low Output
Haha SH --> Shibata Styles High Output
High Output for MM phone pre-amps
Low Output for MC Phono Pre-Amps
Very Torn on doing EH on the P2. I also have a VPI Traveler that I could fix for about $500.
So any upgrade to table would be to fix the VPI. (Short story, I broke the tonearm).
Several reviews detail the sonic difference between Low Output vs High Output versions of the cartridge.
Short story- everyone LOVES the $750 Hana SL.
People seem to prefer the Low Output Version of the Hana E also.
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Post by dsonyay on May 9, 2019 16:36:46 GMT -5
Well.. you have some extreme choices... The stylus upgrade under 100. The Hanna upgrade 700 plus. For me.. I'd go stylus.. but thats me. I'd want to see if I can at least hear the difference a few bucks make |
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Post by dsonyay on May 9, 2019 16:37:41 GMT -5
Heck.. buy both . Let your ears decide.. and return the one the loses.
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