Interesting observations

[pop]

So as I am spending time with my new listening room I am exploring all sorts of speaker positions. On stands, off stands, isolated, not isolated, away from
Walls, close to walls, toed in toed out etc etc.

I’m kind of a freak about placement and usually it takes me a handful of months to get it exactly right even with small micro movements. I seem to have landed on relatively perfect positioning pretty early on.

Using the Airmotiv6s I have put them on isolation pads on top of the entertainment center as the speaker stands were taking up too much room with a overhang into the doorway. A bit of a compromise for soundstage.

What I have found interesting is they sound best toed out a bit. The soundstage improves dramatically and imaging takes a very minor hit. I’m actually not sure if imaging is suffering or if my mind wants it to since they loom so weird toed out. I sit about 8 feet from the speakers and ideally widening the soundstage is most important to me.

It simply makes me feel weird they are toed out. Anyone else found this to be the situation in their room? I have setup many systems and this is the first time I’ve landed on this configuration. Just seems so odd.

[klinemj]

I had a friend who liked to do that every now and then. I never heard what he said he heard and preferred them toed in, but - hey - it was his system. If he liked it, that's his call!

Mark

[mgbpuff]

How about one toed in and the other toed out? Have you covered all possibilities?

[krauley]

Jun 12, 2019 18:00:17 GMT -5 mgbpuff said:

How about one toed in and the other toed out? Have you covered all possibilities?

Isnt that just slanted? 

[selind40]

You should just probably sell them to me....that way you wouldn't have to worry about their placement. I'm here to help

[pop]

Jun 12, 2019 18:30:03 GMT -5 selind40 said:

You should just probably sell them to me....that way you wouldn't have to worry about their placement. I'm here to help

I’ll sell them when they put out new models.

[405x5]

Jun 12, 2019 13:38:55 GMT -5 pop said:

So as I am spending time with my new listening room I am exploring all sorts of speaker positions. On stands, off stands, isolated, not isolated, away from
Walls, close to walls, toed in toed out etc etc.

I’m kind of a freak about placement and usually it takes me a handful of months to get it exactly right even with small micro movements. I seem to have landed on relatively perfect positioning pretty early on.

Using the Airmotiv6s I have put them on isolation pads on top of the entertainment center as the speaker stands were taking up too much room with a overhang into the doorway. A bit of a compromise for soundstage.

What I have found interesting is they sound best toed out a bit. The soundstage improves dramatically and imaging takes a very minor hit. I’m actually not sure if imaging is suffering or if my mind wants it to since they loom so weird toed out. I sit about 8 feet from the speakers and ideally widening the soundstage is most important to me.

It simply makes me feel weird they are toed out. Anyone else found this to be the situation in their room? I have setup many systems and this is the first time I’ve landed on this configuration. Just seems so odd.

Toed out (so to speak) is a permanent condition in my case.
placed a bit over 3 feet from the corners and up against the wall, as these systems are designed to be.
the soundstage is huge with surprisingly satisfying imaging.

[rbk123]

More likely has to do with the room's acoustics and reflections out vs. in.

[amped]

Most speakers should be Towed toward the listening position with a distance from the listening position that is at least 75-80% of an amount equal to the distance between the speakers. Also make sure your ears are in the correct position of the tweeters (the manufacturer will give you an idea). As for towing out speakers, that will not get you a wider sound stage just a bunch of sounds that are lost in space with no coherency. It's akin to "surround sound" used in some cars it's just like reverb not a natural scape

[Boomzilla]

Although amped states the "common wisdom" inerrantly, I have also discovered that sometimes the common wisdom is just plain wrong. In my room, the majority of speakers work best toed in, but occasionally I run across a pair that just doesn't image right in any of the conventional speaker positions. And like you, pop, I try carefully to find the best speaker positioning. I try the following at various widths as starters:

Close to the wall behind the speakers with speaker backs parallel to the wall
Away from the wall behind the speakers with speaker backs parallel to the wall
Close to the wall behind the speakers with the speakers toed in slightly (but still not pointed directly at the listener)
Away from the wall behind the speakers with the speakers toed in slightly (but still not pointed directly at the listener)
Close to the wall behind the speakers with the speakers toed directly at the listener
Away from the wall behind the speakers with the speakers toed directly at the listener

Once the best of the above options reveals itself, then I fine tune with fore-aft tilt, micro toe-in adjustments, and micro width adjustments. Usually, I get a winner. But with some speakers, no matter what I do, I'm just not satisfied. In those cases, my next trial is to use the best width and distance from the wall behind the speakers, but with the speakers toed slightly outward from the listening position.

The toe-out does several things:

It reduces direct sound at the listening seat and provides far more room sound
It reduces pinpoint imaging while making the entire soundstage more large, wide, deep, and spacious (this is why I ALWAYS prefer cathedral organ music with the speakers toed out)
In short, toe out makes a point-radiator style speaker sound more like a dipole or bipole one. Sometimes, that's a very, very nice effect.

Often the gains surpass the losses.

Cheers - Boomzilla