Need Advice on extending network

[klinemj]

I have 1 spot in my house with limited Wifi reception, and I recently switched to streaming TV instead of using cable.

In one location, I have a Roku Streaming Stick+ for 1 TV. The Wifi doesn't reach well to that 1 spot, so the streaming is a bit sluggish.

I have 3 options...extend the wifi network (via 1 of various means), run a new hard line and ditch the streaming stick for a hardwired device (like Roku Ultra), or use one of the devices that allows the hardwired system to run through my home's network (And also switch to an Ultra from the streaming stick+).

Any advice on what to do/not do? I see that mesh wifi seems to be the latest trick. Any advantage of it vs. running through my power outlets if I switch out the Roku streaming stick for an Ultra? Or advantage vs. extending the wifi network via means other than mesh?

FYI, I have an ASUS RT-AC3200 Router...from what I read, it does not do mesh. So, if I wanted to do mesh wifi, I'd have to replace it and add another mesh-capable router to extend the network. I'm happy otherwise with the Asus 3200...it works well and does not interfere with my Sonos network.

Mark

[novisnick]

Hi Mark, I’ve been using this range extender in my dead spot for years, works just fine and is an easy solution. I run it to a switch to use for multiple devices. Can be found at BB or almost anywhere at a very reasonable price.

[klinemj]

Jun 25, 2019 5:37:06 GMT -5 novisnick said:

Hi Mark, I’ve been using this range extender in my dead spot for years, works just fine and is an easy solution. I run it to a switch to use for multiple devices. Can be found at BB or almost anywhere at a very reasonable price.

I forgot to mention - it has to do wireless AC. The Streaming Stick+ only does AC,not 802.11b/g/n. I looked at that one before and it only does "n".

Mark

[creimes]

My job is literally voice, inet and tv repair on both Copper and Fiber Optics, I say whenever possible use a wired connection, cat5 is all we have at my work, it's what we use running lines in residential and businesses are usually wired by electricians, I have done the odd business but cat5 has always been plenty good. But yeah the less wireless the better, and yes there are good options out there now but from my 10+ years of experience a wired connection is always superior.

Chad

[klinemj]

Jun 25, 2019 8:23:22 GMT -5 creimes said:

My job is literally voice, inet and tv repair on both Copper and Fiber Optics, I say whenever possible use a wired connection, cat5 is all we have at my work, it's what we use running lines in residential and businesses are usually wired by electricians, I have done the odd business but cat5 has always been plenty good. But yeah the less wireless the better, and yes there are good options out there now but from my 10+ years of experience a wired connection is always superior.

Chad

What do you think of using wired but for this one TV using the internet through power lines? While I could install a cat 5 line, I'd have to be crawling around in the crawl space and don't feel like doing that.

Mark

[geeqner]

Do you have any old Telephone Wires going to near the "Dead-Spot" location?

If you do, there are several companies that make "Ethernet Extenders" that will carry Network Data over a Single Pair
(so even if you still use 1 pair for phone - you could use the remaining pair for the extenders)

Personally, I have used devices from Veracity for this purpose (Extending CAT5 connections out to over 3000 feet)
Usually, you need a PAIR of the devices - one on each end
They have versions that can run from POE (if your Switch / Router has ports that provide POE)
The Longspan Lite series requires a "wall-Wart" at each end
They're about the size of a 7-stick pack of Wrigley's and you would need a CAT5e Patch Cable at each end
These will typically give you better performance than Line-Carrier type devices

[doc1963]

Jun 25, 2019 8:50:04 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Jun 25, 2019 8:23:22 GMT -5 creimes said:

My job is literally voice, inet and tv repair on both Copper and Fiber Optics, I say whenever possible use a wired connection, cat5 is all we have at my work, it's what we use running lines in residential and businesses are usually wired by electricians, I have done the odd business but cat5 has always been plenty good. But yeah the less wireless the better, and yes there are good options out there now but from my 10+ years of experience a wired connection is always superior.

Chad

What do you think of using wired but for this one TV using the internet through power lines? While I could install a cat 5 line, I'd have to be crawling around in the crawl space and don't feel like doing that.

Mark

I've used power line ethernet adapters before and they work quite well. Easy as pie to install, but just make sure they're plugged directly into the wall outlet. Power strips are a no-no...

[creimes]

Jun 25, 2019 8:50:04 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Jun 25, 2019 8:23:22 GMT -5 creimes said:

My job is literally voice, inet and tv repair on both Copper and Fiber Optics, I say whenever possible use a wired connection, cat5 is all we have at my work, it's what we use running lines in residential and businesses are usually wired by electricians, I have done the odd business but cat5 has always been plenty good. But yeah the less wireless the better, and yes there are good options out there now but from my 10+ years of experience a wired connection is always superior.

Chad

What do you think of using wired but for this one TV using the internet through power lines? While I could install a cat 5 line, I'd have to be crawling around in the crawl space and don't feel like doing that.

Mark

I have heard good things about those, never used them myself but I would imagine better than crawling around a crawlspace lol, though I have had my fair share of that, mostly in dirt ones which sucks, cement is much better

Chad

[KeithL]

Modern WiFi technology can be a wonderful thing... as long as nothing blocks it or interferes with it.

But NOTHING wireless is as reliable as a wire.

A lot of people have great luck with various sorts of wireless technology.

But a wire just plain works.

I do, however, have one suggestion about your WiFi reception.

WiFi is almost line-of-sight and is very easily blocked by metal...

That includes things like metal water pipes or beams in the wall....

And even sometimes things as trivial as having your TV, or something as small as a metal bookend or lamp, between your router and the device.

Therefore, before you resort to something else, I would suggest connecting your Streaming Stick to a short HDMI cable and trying it in different locations.

You may find that simply moving it a few feet one way or the other has a dramatic effect on reception.

Many routers also allow you to connect an external antenna via a screw terminal.

(If your router has a small antenna sticking up on the back you can probably unscrew it and replace it with one with a wire on it.)

If so, try adding a cheap external antenna with a wire, and positioning it  a few feet from the router (up high on top of something is often a good spot).

(Depending on your situation this may or may not help - but it's worth a try.)

Jun 24, 2019 23:44:22 GMT -5 klinemj said:

I have 1 spot in my house with limited Wifi reception, and I recently switched to streaming TV instead of using cable.

In one location, I have a Roku Streaming Stick+ for 1 TV. The Wifi doesn't reach well to that 1 spot, so the streaming is a bit sluggish.

I have 3 options...extend the wifi network (via 1 of various means), run a new hard line and ditch the streaming stick for a hardwired device (like Roku Ultra), or use one of the devices that allows the hardwired system to run through my home's network (And also switch to an Ultra from the streaming stick+).

Any advice on what to do/not do? I see that mesh wifi seems to be the latest trick. Any advantage of it vs. running through my power outlets if I switch out the Roku streaming stick for an Ultra? Or advantage vs. extending the wifi network via means other than mesh?

FYI, I have an ASUS RT-AC3200 Router...from what I read, it does not do mesh. So, if I wanted to do mesh wifi, I'd have to replace it and add another mesh-capable router to extend the network. I'm happy otherwise with the Asus 3200...it works well and does not interfere with my Sonos network.

Mark

[klinemj]

Jun 25, 2019 9:36:55 GMT -5 KeithL said:

Therefore, before you resort to something else, I would suggest connecting your Streaming Stick to a short HDMI cable and trying it in different locations. You may find that simply moving it a few feet one way or the other has a dramatic effect on reception.

I really like this idea...it very well could make all the difference. The room with the spotty reception is just beside my deck where reception is great. Moving the stick over near the window by the deck just might be enough.

I'll give that a try later today.

Mark

[geeqner]

Yeah - Thanks Keith!

Some of us get "wrapped-up" in the technology and sometimes forget the stupid simple stuff...

[LuisV]

Hey Mark... just wanted to let you know, that no, you don't need to ditch your existing router and yes, you can off-load wireless as well as add mesh type devices to the Asus router.  That's how I actually started with updating my wireleses network as I too had dead spots within my house.  I originaly had an Asus router and added a hardwired access point as a test... needless to say, the Asus was sold and the rest is history. 

Since you can move the AP further from where the router is located, you may not need to go all the way to the other side of the house.  When I tested things, I bought a 100' CAT6 cable from Monoprice and moved the AP through the house until I found a good mounting location that took care of the deadspot.  In my particular instance, installing an AP in my central hallway satisfied the deadspot and it was rather easy to run the cable as I had attic access.  The APs are PoE, so if you don't have a PoE switch, you can simply use the PoE injectors that are included with the APs.  Plug the injectors near the router, so you don't need to worry about an outlet were you mount or place the AP.   My cousin placed one under his couch and it works perfectly.  

I'm using two Ubiquiti AC AP Pros to cover the inside of my home and a Ubiquiti AC Mesh AP for outdoor connectivity.  I'm also using Sonos speakers, inside and outside... love how simple they are from a plug and play perspective and how they can act as Roon endpoints.   Like Chad, I prefer hardwired connections where possible.

[klinemj]

I did some testing today, and the first thing I tried was the suggestion from KeithL to connect the Roku SS+ to an HDMI cable so I could move the SS+ out from behind the TV. I instantly noticed a lot better responsiveness from the remote. Even that had been (very) sluggish before. I checked the wifi strength (using Roku's connection check feature), and it still showed "fair" reception but it was very responsive vs. prior setup.

Then, I went to the router. The router is on a shelving unit, and the router was on a lower shelf than it has been in the past (my wife wanted a new shelving unit, and the router ended up 1 shelf lower). I moved the router up 1 shelf (a little over 1' higher). Instantly, the Roku showed "good" reception instead of "fair". I removed the HDMI line and put the SS+ directly back into the TV's HDMI port. Signal strength remained "good" and responsiveness to the remote remained great.

With the new router placement, the signal goes pretty much straight line through glass, over my deck, and through glass into the room with the TV in question. Before, it had to go through two 6" thick framed walls (each with a brick exterior).

So now, I need to figure out how to get the router off that shelf (that my wife likes to use for items on display) and still get the lines coming out of the router back to the wall plate below the shelving unit. I think I can do it with a move of the router position and a switch position. I might need 1 more longer Cat 5 line than I currently have.

Mark

[MusicHead]

Jun 25, 2019 16:10:23 GMT -5 klinemj said:

I did some testing today, and the first thing I tried was the suggestion from KeithL to connect the Roku SS+ to an HDMI cable so I could move the SS+ out from behind the TV. I instantly noticed a lot better responsiveness from the remote. Even that had been (very) sluggish before. I checked the wifi strength (using Roku's connection check feature), and it still showed "fair" reception but it was very responsive vs. prior setup.

Then, I went to the router. The router is on a shelving unit, and the router was on a lower shelf than it has been in the past (my wife wanted a new shelving unit, and the router ended up 1 shelf lower). I moved the router up 1 shelf (a little over 1' higher). Instantly, the Roku showed "good" reception instead of "fair". I removed the HDMI line and put the SS+ directly back into the TV's HDMI port. Signal strength remained "good" and responsiveness to the remote remained great.

With the new router placement, the signal goes pretty much straight line through glass, over my deck, and through glass into the room with the TV in question. Before, it had to go through two 6" thick framed walls (each with a brick exterior).

So now, I need to figure out how to get the router off that shelf (that my wife likes to use for items on display) and still get the lines coming out of the router back to the wall plate below the shelving unit. I think I can do it with a move of the router position and a switch position. I might need 1 more longer Cat 5 line than I currently have.

Mark

Still in the spirit of thinking out of the box (or the shelf, in this case 😄), could you hang the router on the side or back wall or even on the ceiling, upside down? Your wife gets to keep the shelf and the router would be positioned even higher.

[klinemj]

Jun 25, 2019 18:43:14 GMT -5 MusicHead said:

Still in the spirit of thinking out of the box (or the shelf, in this case 😄), could you hang the router on the side or back wall or even on the ceiling, upside down? Your wife gets to keep the shelf and the router would be positioned even higher.

I actually started to wall mount the router when I got her the new shelf, but I ran into a challenge. The ASUS AC-3200 has holes for mounting, but they are not easy to use. The base of the router is not flat (angled upward with a "foot" at the back), so the mounting holes are recessed and I'd need some very long screws coming out of the wall (think 1+ inches sticking out of the wall). Also, the main mounting location that worked was behind the shelf (which is metal), and that would have interfered with the signal even more. (And the ceiling above the router is ~18' up...room is open 2 stories for half the room.)

So, I took the opportunity just now to move the router next to the TV in our living room - about 4' from where it was on the shelf. Everyone was gone but me, so I could unhook the wifi without people saying "hey, what's going on, I can't use my tablet!"

I have it all re-wired and working again, and the reception in the back bedroom is great now. The position beside the TV still goes through 2 windows and across the deck to the problem room, and it's the same height as it would be on her shelf. So now, instead of my e-gear on the shelf, she gets more plants on them!

I had to steal a 10' Cat 6 line from another use, but I can live without it until a new one arrives from Amazon Thursday.

Mark

[Bonzo]

Late to the party, but I do have one experience with the power line things. Mine worked well as long as BOTH ends were on inside wall outlets. Outside wall outlets, no dice. Have a big thread about it here where even Keith chimed in and there wasn't a good explanation. Anyway, used it for about a year until the receiver about burnt my house down. Got so hot I had to use a towel to unplug it. Scary stuff.

All hardwired now thanks to yours and others help in yet another thread. STILL not hooked up and running, BUT wired.

[klinemj]

Jun 25, 2019 19:44:12 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

Late to the party, but I do have one experience with the power line things. Mine worked well as long as BOTH ends were on inside wall outlets. Outside wall outlets, no dice. Have a big thread about it here where even Keith chimed in and there wasn't a good explanation. Anyway, used it for about a year until the receiver about burnt my house down. Got so hot I had to use a towel to unplug it. Scary stuff.

All hardwired now thanks to yours and others help in yet another thread. STILL not hooked up and running, BUT wired.

Quite odd! I think I'd crawl in my crawl space if that was common! (Mine would be on outside walls)

Mark

[KeithL]

Many people seem to have excellent luck with power-line Ethernet gadgets... and many not so good.

One thing to keep in mind with those is that they send your data through the power lines themselves over a high frequency carrier.

In many homes, including most older ones, the power company transformer on your pole is really a 230 VAC transformer with a center tap.

And, in order to keep the transformer more or less balanced, half of the 120 VAC circuits in your home are connected to each side.

Because of this, whatever outlet you start from, about half of the outlets in your home are "on the other side of the transformer from it".

And, since the transformer has quite a bit of inductance, this effectively means that half of your outlets are separated from the other half by a noise filter, which tends to block the carrier signal.

So, it's not so much inside or outside, but whether both units happen to be connected to circuits that are on the same side of the transformer or not.

It's also possible that your outside outlets incorporated additional protection circuitry - which might also have included some filtering as well (which would be even worse for your signal).

Jun 25, 2019 20:04:18 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Jun 25, 2019 19:44:12 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

Late to the party, but I do have one experience with the power line things. Mine worked well as long as BOTH ends were on inside wall outlets. Outside wall outlets, no dice. Have a big thread about it here where even Keith chimed in and there wasn't a good explanation. Anyway, used it for about a year until the receiver about burnt my house down. Got so hot I had to use a towel to unplug it. Scary stuff.

All hardwired now thanks to yours and others help in yet another thread. STILL not hooked up and running, BUT wired.

Quite odd! I think I'd crawl in my crawl space if that was common! (Mine would be on outside walls)

Mark

[GreenKiwi]

Jun 26, 2019 12:04:10 GMT -5 KeithL said:

Many people seem to have excellent luck with power-line Ethernet gadgets... and many not so good.

One thing to keep in mind with those is that they send your data through the power lines themselves over a high frequency carrier.

In many homes, including most older ones, the power company transformer on your pole is really a 230 VAC transformer with a center tap.

And, in order to keep the transformer more or less balanced, half of the 120 VAC circuits in your home are connected to each side.

Because of this, whatever outlet you start from, about half of the outlets in your home are "on the other side of the transformer from it".

And, since the transformer has quite a bit of inductance, this effectively means that half of your outlets are separated from the other half by a noise filter, which tends to block the carrier signal.

So, it's not so much inside or outside, but whether both units happen to be connected to circuits that are on the same side of the transformer or not.

It's also possible that your outside outlets incorporated additional protection circuitry - which might also have included some filtering as well (which would be even worse for your signal).

Jun 25, 2019 20:04:18 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Quite odd! I think I'd crawl in my crawl space if that was common! (Mine would be on outside walls)

Mark

Yeah, I definitely found this to be the case. It was circuit specific, in particular, which phase it was tied to. I did find that once I worked out which circuits worked or didn't, the rest was fairly straight forward. I also tended to use the extenders and have things hard wired if possible out of the boxes.

I've also had luck with the Eero and Google Wifi mesh networks.

[vcautokid]

This is so easy. Wire is it. Everything else is dependent on so many factors wireless. Extenders sometimes work. Mostly not. Another WAP maybe a good idea. But good old fashioned wire ethernet gets it done reliably. I only use wifi on my tablet and phone, otherwise ethernet is my go too.