Help with multiple preamps, lost on connections.

[fmzip]

Goal: 2.1 audio with second preamp, ideally no swapping cables each time I'd like to use one or the other.


I was wondering if anyone could provide me with some assistance in hooking up my SVS SB-4000 in a multiple preamp scenario.
Sub details are here, it has both XLR and RCA inputs.

system.na1.netsuite.com/core/media/media.nl?id=231358&c=3634088&h=540514e986fe6d2aecfd&_xt=.pdf

The two front channel amps I have are Emotiva XPA-1L, connected to the processor via XLR. These amps also can be connected via RCA. There is a switch on the AMP to utilize one or the other. 

I currently my Anthem D1 processor handling the bass management, passing the signal to the sub via a single RCA to the LFE input. The Anthem has the ability to pass the signal thru XLR to the sub as well.

www.anthemav.com/downloads/d1-manual.pdf

My DAC is the only other piece of gear in the equation Currently, balanced output is sent to the D1, D1 handles bass management as mentioned above. (The DAC signal would only need to be sent to the new tube preamp)

www.mu-sound.com/ProductView.Asp?id=8

I would like to add a tube preamp into the mix for music listening only. I would like 2.1 sound  but am lost as to how to connect it. How can I get a signal to the Sub from both preamps? The way I envision this working, the D1 still handles handles the bass management for  my Blu Ray player and Cable box. The sub would handle the bass management on it's own when I use the tube amp.

Here's the second preamp:

www.primaluna-usa.com/dialogue-premium-preamplifier


Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I am thinking I can utilize RCA inputs to feed the signal  from the tube preamp to the  amps. Simply flip the switch on the back of the XPA-1L's when I want to use the tube amp. The sub part, I am unsure....

Here are some photos of the back of each unit

[novisnick]

Hello, sounds like your system is similar to mine. I’m using three preamps, two sets of Monoblocks and two sets of speakers all controlled by my Mapletree switch box.
It is a high quality custom box that has made mix and matching gear a joy. Lots of fun toying around with all the possibilities.
I would not be using the switch on the back of the XPA-1L on a regular basis, it wasn’t designed for that much use. This is what was told to me via Emotiva.
I can’t recall who first suggested this company but I am greatful.
link
mapletreeaudio.com


                                 

[fmzip]

Jul 23, 2019 9:23:01 GMT -5 novisnick said:

Hello, sounds like your system is similar to mine. I’m using three preamps, two sets of Monoblocks and two sets of speakers all controlled by my Mapletree switch box.
It is a high quality custom box that has made mix and matching gear a joy. Lots of fun toying around with all the possibilities.
I would not be using the switch on the back of the XPA-1L on a regular basis, it wasn’t designed for that much use. This is what was told to me via Emotiva.
I can’t recall who first suggested this company but I am greatful.
link
mapletreeaudio.com


                                 

Thanks for the reply. I could change the switch on the amp instead.

You'd be surprised that a tiny switch like that is rated between 40,000- 100,000 cycles.  That's 54-136 years of use switching it twice a day. The switch below is $10 each so I'd swap out the stock one when it wears out. 

www.ckswitches.com/products/switches/product-details/Toggle/7000/

Understanding how to have the second preamp work with the sub is the confusing part.

EDIT:

[AudioHTIT]

I just got a pair of SB-4000’s, really enjoying them so far. Do you expect both your systems to be active at the same time? It’s POSSIBLE, if the inputs are sufficiently buffered, that you could hookup both the D1 via XLR and new preamp via RCA to the SB-4000, and then create two presets on the SB-4000 for each use. Unfortunately the presets don’t include selecting inputs. The concern would be the two output stages “seeing” each other. I’d call SVS and see what they say about it, their customer service is excellent and knowledgeable.

Edit: I’m driving two systems (HT & Stereo) from the XMC-1, which plays is determined by which input is selected. Stereo / music sources trigger the stereo amps to come on and HT amp off, visa-versa for the HT sources.

[tropicallutefisk]

Here's what I'd recommend as the easiest solution... Run your DAC into your stereo preamp. Run your right and left mains from your Anthem pre pro into one of the inputs on your stereo preamp. Your preamp appears to have a Home Theater Bypass so use that particular input for the right and left. Now you can plug your sub or subs directly into the preamp and use the crossover on your sub to adjust it as needed for the perfect blend.

[novisnick]

Jul 23, 2019 9:47:50 GMT -5 fmzip said:

Jul 23, 2019 9:23:01 GMT -5 novisnick said:

Hello, sounds like your system is similar to mine. I’m using three preamps, two sets of Monoblocks and two sets of speakers all controlled by my Mapletree switch box.
It is a high quality custom box that has made mix and matching gear a joy. Lots of fun toying around with all the possibilities.
I would not be using the switch on the back of the XPA-1L on a regular basis, it wasn’t designed for that much use. This is what was told to me via Emotiva.
I can’t recall who first suggested this company but I am greatful.
link
mapletreeaudio.com


                                 

Thanks for the reply. I could change the switch on the amp instead.

You'd be surprised that a tiny switch like that is rated between 40,000- 100,000 cycles.  That's 54-136 years of use switching it twice a day. The switch below is $10 each so I'd swap out the stock one when it wears out. 

www.ckswitches.com/products/switches/product-details/Toggle/7000/

Understanding how to have the second preamp work with the sub is the confusing part.

EDIT:

Our hobby is most fun! 😁
My second preamp, McIntosh C220 has multiple outs so I use one set for speakers and another single out for the sub, using the subs plate amp to control it.

[fmzip]

Jul 23, 2019 10:37:13 GMT -5 AudioHTIT said:

I just got a pair of SB-4000’s, really enjoying them so far. Do you expect both your systems to be active at the same time? It’s POSSIBLE, if the inputs are sufficiently buffered, that you could hookup both the D1 via XLR and new preamp via RCA to the SB-4000, and then create two presets on the SB-4000 for each use. Unfortunately the presets don’t include selecting inputs. The concern would be the two output stages “seeing” each other. I’d call SVS and see what they say about it, their customer service is excellent and knowledgeable.

Edit: I’m driving two systems (HT & Stereo) from the XMC-1, which plays is determined by which input is selected. Stereo / music sources trigger the stereo amps to come on and HT amp off, visa-versa for the HT sources.

Right now, the Anthem Processor is doing the bass management so the sub out  is sent to RCA LFE input of the sub.  SVS replied with the following after I posed the same question if both inputs were active at the same time. They obviously wouldn't be if, I were careful, but I thought I'd ask. Here is their reply:

I would imagine that both sources would be playing through the sub at the same time, but have not actually tried it myself so I cannot accurately comment. Looking at the graph ( I submitted one from the Anthem room correction output for suggested setting for the second preamp), I would enable PEQ-1 with a frequency of 60Hz, level of +6 and Q-Value of 2.2

SVS's suggestion for my conundrum was simply split the signal coming out of the new preamp via RCA out. First, feed my left and right channel amp with one pair, then combine the other two signals with "Y" adapter into a signal RCA and feed the sub again into the RCA connector next to the one in use labeled, "LFE".  Same could be accomplished if I want to use either XLR.  I think that's a simple solution.

[fmzip]

Jul 23, 2019 11:08:55 GMT -5 tropicallutefisk said:

Here's what I'd recommend as the easiest solution... Run your DAC into your stereo preamp. Run your right and left mains from your Anthem pre pro into one of the inputs on your stereo preamp. Your preamp appears to have a Home Theater Bypass so use that particular input for the right and left. Now you can plug your sub or subs directly into the preamp and use the crossover on your sub to adjust it as needed for the perfect blend.

Thanks for the reply. 

The photos of the second preamp show the knob for the different  inputs. So following your instructions, I run the DAC into let's say Aux 1, Left and right mains out from the Anthem to HT input. I don't follow any further than that. Can you explain further on how you are suggesting to hook up the sub? The only sub out I have is from the Anthem. I don't want the tube preamp to be on, only when the DAC is in use. How does HT bypass typically work, is the unit  off when the knob is in the HT position, switching it to any other input then turns it on?

[tropicallutefisk]

Not sure how the bypass works exactly, but for my system without a designated bypass the stereo preamp is basically in between the processor and the sub and main speakers. I dont use the sub out on my processor. I put my preamp into passive mode, switch to the input thats from my processor and leave the preamp on. In this mode its just passing the signal from the processor through the preamp and out to your mains and sub that are connected to the outputs on your preamp.

When listening to two channel you switch to the input your dac is connected to and you can shut off your processor. Now your preamp is active and youll be rockin'

[klinemj]

Jul 23, 2019 9:01:29 GMT -5 fmzip said:

Goal: 2.1 audio with second preamp, ideally no swapping cables each time I'd like to use one or the other.


I was wondering if anyone could provide me with some assistance in hooking up my SVS SB-4000 in a multiple preamp scenario.
Sub details are here, it has both XLR and RCA inputs.

system.na1.netsuite.com/core/media/media.nl?id=231358&c=3634088&h=540514e986fe6d2aecfd&_xt=.pdf

The two front channel amps I have are Emotiva XPA-1L, connected to the processor via XLR. These amps also can be connected via RCA. There is a switch on the AMP to utilize one or the other. 

I currently my Anthem D1 processor handling the bass management, passing the signal to the sub via a single RCA to the LFE input. The Anthem has the ability to pass the signal thru XLR to the sub as well.

www.anthemav.com/downloads/d1-manual.pdf

My DAC is the only other piece of gear in the equation Currently, balanced output is sent to the D1, D1 handles bass management as mentioned above. (The DAC signal would only need to be sent to the new tube preamp)

www.mu-sound.com/ProductView.Asp?id=8

I would like to add a tube preamp into the mix for music listening only. I would like 2.1 sound  but am lost as to how to connect it. How can I get a signal to the Sub from both preamps? The way I envision this working, the D1 still handles handles the bass management for  my Blu Ray player and Cable box. The sub would handle the bass management on it's own when I use the tube amp.

Here's the second preamp:

www.primaluna-usa.com/dialogue-premium-preamplifier


Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I am thinking I can utilize RCA inputs to feed the signal  from the tube preamp to the  amps. Simply flip the switch on the back of the XPA-1L's when I want to use the tube amp. The sub part, I am unsure....

Here are some photos of the back of each unit

I think you can do something like I do. I have an XMC-1 for multichannel and a PrimaLuna Premium Prologue amp (PLA for short). I listen to 2.1 using the PLA with XMC-1 as volume control and the XMC-1 for 7.1

It takes a couple things...some special features of a sub (and I think your SVS has them) and some special features of your PL Preamp (which it has).

Here's what I think will work:
1) Run your DAC into the PL Preamp into the HT inputs.
2) Connect one of your PL Preamp RCA outputs to any of your Anthem's RCA analog inputs...CD, for example...doesn't really matter which one.
3) Connect either the RCA FR/FL or XLR FR/FL outputs from the anthem to the SVS Sub. (Which one depends on sub features...more on that in a moment).
4) On your Anthem, set up the input looking to the input your chose in "step 2" to not do ANY processing. On the XMC-1, that's reference stereo. ANY SETTING THAT DOES PROCESSING WILL TAKE THE ANALOG INPUT AND CONVERT IT TO DIGITAL, THEN PROCESS THE SIGNAL AND THE RUN IT THROUGH THE ANTHEM'S DAC's. This kind of (to me) defeats the purpose of having an outboard DAC and at least adds to the signal chain. Net, I avoid processing in the XMC-1.
5) Wire the multichannel as you would normally want it...take the Anthem's outputs to the amps of your choice.
6) When you want 2.1, select the input you set up on the Anthem (for example..."CD"). Turn on the PL preamp and set it to "HT" input. When you do this, the PL's volume control will not affect the volume. Only the Anthem's volume control will. But, the signal will not be processed and you are effectively using the Anthem as a pass-through with only a volume control.

Regarding point #3...my Rythmik sub has an option that I think your SVS has. Your SVS sub has an LFE input (that's RCA) as well as "line level" RCA inputs and XLR inputs. With my Rythmik, I can have an LFE input which IGNORES all settings of the sub and takes whatever the pre-pro (XMC-1 in my case) puts out. Net, it uses the XMC-1's processing (crossovers, level control, etc.) for the LFE input. My Rythmik's additional inputs (RCA for me) can take the FR/FL RCA outs from my XMC-1, and when they are active...the sub's internal crossover/level controls ARE used. So, I set them where I want for 2.1, and use the pre-pro (XMC-1) for controlling what happens in 7.1. I am 99% sure your SVS also has this feature (but I think the RCA and XLR usage is reversed.

I would call SVS and talk with them about whether this is a feature or not. Pretty sure it is, but the manual is vague (as was my Rythmik manual on this topic).

If it is a feature...you have an easy solution and can reapply what I did.

I hope that helps.

Mark

[klinemj]

Closer read of your sub manual...I am pretty sure that if you have the RCA "sub 1" output from your Anthem connected to the SVS sub's "LFE" input that the sub will defer to your Anthem's LFE output controls (which you would set up on inputs to the Anthem you have that are multichannel). And, if you have XLR's connected from the Anthem's FR/FL to your SVS sub's XLR inputs and have the Anthem set to a 2-channel analog input (like "CD" and set to the equivalent of the XMC-1's "reference stereo"_ that the SVS will ignore the Anthem's sub controls and you can use the SVS's sub controls to match your FR/FL speakers.

Check with SVS to confirm that's true.

And, FYI, your FR/FL amp and speakers will get their signal from whatever output you have their amp connected to on the Anthem. You could use either the RCA or XLR inputs from the Anthem to the FR/FL amp/speakers. Both should be active at the same time.

Mark

[AudioHTIT]

Jul 23, 2019 17:40:59 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Regarding point #3...my Rythmik sub has an option that I think your SVS has. Your SVS sub has an LFE input (that's RCA) as well as "line level" RCA inputs and XLR inputs. With my Rythmik, I can have an LFE input which IGNORES all settings of the sub and takes whatever the pre-pro (XMC-1 in my case) puts out. Net, it uses the XMC-1's processing (crossovers, level control, etc.) for the LFE input. My Rythmik's additional inputs (RCA for me) can take the FR/FL RCA outs from my XMC-1, and when they are active...the sub's internal crossover/level controls ARE used. So, I set them where I want for 2.1, and use the pre-pro (XMC-1) for controlling what happens in 7.1. I am 99% sure your SVS also has this feature (but I think the RCA and XLR usage is reversed.
...

Even if the SVS LFE Input doesn’t act as you describe, the SB-4000 has presets that will act that way, generally described as Movie and Music, but you can make three presets do anything you want.