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Post by rockman85 on Oct 7, 2019 14:07:13 GMT -5
I have been obsessively sketching out my future system, making excel spreadsheets and price comparisons etc. and I think I have finally laid out the system I am going to build.
Tekton Pendragon Speakers
XSP-1 Preamp
DR-2 Amplifier
Node2i Streamer
DAC = ?
I have pretty much given up on Emotiva coming out with another DAC so I was considering either the Schiit Gungnir Multibit or the Yggdrasil to use in conjunction with the XSP preamp. Does anyone have any comments on those Dac's? I am also open to other suggestions, I only need the DAC component since pre and amp functions will be taken care of with the above mentioned gear.
Thanks!
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Post by tropicallutefisk on Oct 7, 2019 14:12:58 GMT -5
Looks like a great system coming together. I'm also curious about DAC recommends. Currently, I'm interested in a Yggy because of my satisfaction with the Freya+ preamp.
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Post by rockman85 on Oct 7, 2019 14:17:08 GMT -5
Looks like a great system coming together. I'm also curious about DAC recommends. Currently, I'm interested in a Yggy because of my satisfaction with the Freya+ preamp. Thats awesome you have the Freya+, do you feel that the tube stage adds anything to the sound? What kind of speakers do you use it with? FWIW based just on reading and youtube reviews, people say the Gumby is warmer than the Yggy, and the Yggy is far more detailed, almost to a fault. Since I listen to a lot of metal and such my feeling is that a slightly less resolving Dac may be better for me. |
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Post by sahmen on Oct 7, 2019 14:29:31 GMT -5
I love my Yggy A2. If the price difference is not an issue, I will pick that over the gungnir miultibit every time. Just my humble two cents.
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Post by garbulky on Oct 7, 2019 14:41:24 GMT -5
I reccomend the freya solid state version and the Yggy. If not I would reccomend ditching the XSP-1 and going Emotiva DC-1 direct to the DR-2. The Gungnir is pretty nice but not better than the DC-1 in detail though it appears to sound a bit more natural.
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Post by rockman85 on Oct 7, 2019 14:53:27 GMT -5
I reccomend the freya solid state version and the Yggy. If not I would reccomend ditching the XSP-1 and going Emotiva DC-1 direct to the DR-2. The Gungnir is pretty nice but not better than the DC-1 in detail though it appears to sound a bit more natural. Really? I own the DC-1, it does sound really good, but I would think a $1,250 DAC would sound better than a $500 one. Have you compare the Gumby to the DC-1? Also, why do you recommend the SS Freya over the XSP-1? Whats the reasoning behind these recommendations? |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 7, 2019 16:02:14 GMT -5
I reccomend the freya solid state version and the Yggy. If not I would reccomend ditching the XSP-1 and going Emotiva DC-1 direct to the DR-2. The Gungnir is pretty nice but not better than the DC-1 in detail though it appears to sound a bit more natural. Really? I own the DC-1, it does sound really good, but I would think a $1,250 DAC would sound better than a $500 one. Have you compare the Gumby to the DC-1? Also, why do you recommend the SS Freya over the XSP-1? Whats the reasoning behind these recommendations? If I may, I’ve listened to the Multibit Gumbie extensively while owning a DC-1. They were asking a reasonable price for the used Gumby but I found my preference was for the DC-1. Just my two cents. 🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶 |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Oct 7, 2019 16:24:26 GMT -5
I use a Gungnir Multibit in my home theater for stereo music, and Yggdrasil in my main 2-channel and headphone system. Both are pretty darn great sounding.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 7, 2019 16:37:17 GMT -5
The short answer, and the most accurate one, is that it may or may not. DACs are one of those products where "personal preference" quite often overshadows "technical performance".
(That's a nice way of saying that, while someone else may like the way the $1250 one sounds better, that doesn't mean that it technically performs better, or that YOU will like it better.)
Also, in terms of sound quality, when it comes to DACs, different people have very different preferences and priorities.
I have personally owned dozens of DACs over the years (far too many) - ranging in price from about $15 to about $1500 (none of them was a Gumby).
By my preferences the DC-1 was easily the best sounding one of the lot.
I should also point out that preamps and DACs are very different animals....
I reccomend the freya solid state version and the Yggy. If not I would reccomend ditching the XSP-1 and going Emotiva DC-1 direct to the DR-2. The Gungnir is pretty nice but not better than the DC-1 in detail though it appears to sound a bit more natural. Really? I own the DC-1, it does sound really good, but I would think a $1,250 DAC would sound better than a $500 one. Have you compare the Gumby to the DC-1? Also, why do you recommend the SS Freya over the XSP-1? Whats the reasoning behind these recommendations? |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Oct 7, 2019 16:40:58 GMT -5
Incidentally, feel free to believe what you like, but we WILL be coming out with another DAC eventually. However, not for at least a few months yet.
(Hopefully soon this time... but we've been through that before.  ) I have been obsessively sketching out my future system, making excel spreadsheets and price comparisons etc. and I think I have finally laid out the system I am going to build. Tekton Pendragon Speakers XSP-1 Preamp DR-2 Amplifier Node2i Streamer DAC = ? I have pretty much given up on Emotiva coming out with another DAC so I was considering either the Schiit Gungnir Multibit or the Yggdrasil to use in conjunction with the XSP preamp. Does anyone have any comments on those Dac's? I am also open to other suggestions, I only need the DAC component since pre and amp functions will be taken care of with the above mentioned gear. Thanks! |
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Post by rockman85 on Oct 7, 2019 17:27:34 GMT -5
The short answer, and the most accurate one, is that it may or may not. DACs are one of those products where "personal preference" quite often overshadows "technical performance".
(That's a nice way of saying that, while someone else may like the way the $1250 one sounds better, that doesn't mean that it technically performs better, or that YOU will like it better.)
Also, in terms of sound quality, when it comes to DACs, different people have very different preferences and priorities.
I have personally owned dozens of DACs over the years (far too many) - ranging in price from about $15 to about $1500 (none of them was a Gumby).
By my preferences the DC-1 was easily the best sounding one of the lot.
I should also point out that preamps and DACs are very different animals....
Really? I own the DC-1, it does sound really good, but I would think a $1,250 DAC would sound better than a $500 one. Have you compare the Gumby to the DC-1? Also, why do you recommend the SS Freya over the XSP-1? Whats the reasoning behind these recommendations? Thanks for your input as always. Yes, I firmly understand the subjectiveness of DACs, sadly my experience with different ones is very limited. Just searching for the holy grail in sound and any input helps in lieu of actual personal testing (hence this post). Come the day when triggers will be pulled I will probably need to buy / demo / and return some gear in order to really get a sense of what works in my system. As for preamps, apples to apples, solid state to solid state, what is the difference between the Schiit Freya and the XSP-1. As far as I can tell the Freya is just and enormous volume knob. The XSP has phono inputs, high pass and low pass crossover / bass mgmt, tone boosts, analogue out for both amplifiers and subs. To me it seems like a hell of a lot more kit for the money. If you took off all those awesome features though, arent the two preamps basically doing the same thing? |
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Post by routlaw on Oct 7, 2019 17:54:05 GMT -5
If you have the budget for it I highly recommend the Holo Spring DAC Level 1 being the least expensive. It is an R2R Ladder DAC and to these ears at least for now the best I've heard. Very organic sound IMHO. Regarding the XSP-1 I would keep it. I don't currently own one but did before buying the XMC-1 which replaced it for two channel music as well as doubling for HT sound tracks.
Just recently some friends and I compared the XMC-1 in Reference Mode to a pre-amp that cost twice the price of the XSP-1 when new and now sells for 3 times the price of the XSP-1. I wouldn't think there is a nickels worth of difference with the XMC and XSP, but in this case the XMC-1 annihilated the other pre amp and it didn't take long to figure it out either. The performance difference was night and day, not even close.
Hope this helps.
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Post by tropicallutefisk on Oct 7, 2019 18:34:09 GMT -5
Looks like a great system coming together. I'm also curious about DAC recommends. Currently, I'm interested in a Yggy because of my satisfaction with the Freya+ preamp. Thats awesome you have the Freya+, do you feel that the tube stage adds anything to the sound? What kind of speakers do you use it with? FWIW based just on reading and youtube reviews, people say the Gumby is warmer than the Yggy, and the Yggy is far more detailed, almost to a fault. Since I listen to a lot of metal and such my feeling is that a slightly less resolving Dac may be better for me. The Freya+ is my first dedicated 2 channel preamp, so I can’t offer a real in depth comparison against other preamps. However, I can say it sounds better than any home theater processor I’ve had including my current Marantz 8802a. I chose the Freya+ because I could try a tube preamp at an easy to swallow price point. I have tried all three modes and so far I prefer the tube stage. Passive is next and JFET is least favorite. I find the JFET fatiguing and the passive is nice and accurate. The tube stage adds a slight bit of sparkle to the high end and some mid range warmth. It’s subtle but definitely preferable to my ears. My two channel amps are DR1s and my speakers Magnepan 3.7is. I love this combo of Schiit, Emo and Maggie. Currently I’m using a Cambridge CXN as a source. Its good but thinking I’d like to step up to a better DAC. |
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Post by jra on Oct 7, 2019 19:11:36 GMT -5
I have the Chord Hugo 2 going into the reference stereo inputs on my XMC-1. For pure 2-channel it can't be beat (IMHO of course).
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Post by garbulky on Oct 7, 2019 19:19:19 GMT -5
I reccomend the freya solid state version and the Yggy. If not I would reccomend ditching the XSP-1 and going Emotiva DC-1 direct to the DR-2. The Gungnir is pretty nice but not better than the DC-1 in detail though it appears to sound a bit more natural. Really? I own the DC-1, it does sound really good, but I would think a $1,250 DAC would sound better than a $500 one. Have you compare the Gumby to the DC-1? Also, why do you recommend the SS Freya over the XSP-1? Whats the reasoning behind these recommendations? The short answer is that I've heard and compared the Gungnir Multibit and the DC-1 extensively. I've also used the XSP-1 extensively as well as had some experience with the Freya. If you wish you can read my (long a$$) review emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/48895/garbulkys-schiit-gungnir-multibit-reviewThe longer answer is that the Gungnir MB is in the tier of the best DACs I've heard but it was alongside the DC-1 and the Mytek Liberty DAC. The Gungnir MB sounds a little bit different from the DC-1. It provides a vertically large sound while the DC-1 sounds a bit narrower in height. It sounds more like listening to a high quality tape. Also you can very easily follow the melody lines of pretty muich everything you hear and their position on the soundstage doesn't waver. It's easy to visualize the positions in your mind. In classical music this sounds amazing because you can visualize where all the performers are. Where it falls down is that it doesn't do subtle details very well. For instance in the reproduction of the dimensions of the recording space, the subtle acoustical dimensions that I know is there on a recording is harder to hear on the Gungnir vs the DC_1 where I can hear the room ambience quite well. For treble it seems to be just slightly (SLIGHTLY) on the "raw" side and not quite as airy as the DC-1. The xsp-1 on my XPA-1 gen 2 lacks some of the subtle airy details of the DC-1 direct to the amp. There is basically a slight muddiness by using the preamp. If you listen to music that's outdoors and oyu hdear the wind or the "expanse" of the space, the XSP-1 doesn't have as much of it. The same goes for bass. The bass on the XSP-1 is powerful and dynamic and goes very low but there is a slight muddiness compared to direct from the DC-1 which has more tone texture and detail. I'm hoping that the Ygdrassil will sound better with more detail. Imo if the Gungnir matched the level of detail of the DC-1 while still providing that sense of timing and ease of identifying melody lines and soundstage then it would have been a winner over the DC-1. But I just couldn't get past the detail issue. So it won't take a whole lot more and I'm hoping the Yggy has it where it counts. Don't get me wrong the XSP-1 sounds really quite nice and very musical and there is still a lot of detail. But it's not there on that last bit of clarity. Also the DC-1's analog input is surprisingly good - imo better than the XSP-1 in clarity. I found the Freya to be slightly better in transparency. So if you want to go Yggy and Freya I think you would get more clarity. I would reccomend the solid state option. So in case I'm not being clear. If you buy an XSP-1 you will get high quality sound, but it may be the bottleneck on detail in your system. But you will still be enjoying the heck out of the sound because it sounds really nice.  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 8, 2019 2:26:58 GMT -5
...I would think a $1,250 DAC would sound better than a $500 one... Danger, Will Robinson, Danger! In many components of home audio, there is a strong positive correlation between price and performance. But in DACs, more than any other aspect of your audio system, component compatibility seems to make a far greater difference. I've heard really expensive DACs that sound really bad in one system (flat, poor dynamics, insufficient detail, etc.) that absolutely come alive in another system. I've also heard really inexpensive DACs that are similarly system-dependent. So don't just assume that a more expensive DAC will sound better than a less expensive one. I can virtually guarantee you that the two will sound differently from one another, but that "different" doesn't necessarily mean "better." So this is basically a lot of bad news. If you can't sort DACs by their relative price, then you are going to have to LISTEN to each and every one (and in your own system). You'll need to keep notes as to what particular aspects of each DAC you like and dislike and then select the best performer for your ears. This will involve some cost to probably buy and then return multiple DACs, since manufacturers don't provide "loaners." It will also mean that you can't listen to a DAC at a store or in a friend's system and expect it to sound the same in yours. Not happening... And anyone else's review of a DAC (including mine) probably isn't worth the paper it's written on. Unless the reviewer had the same system that you do, you won't hear the same results. Furthermore, the idea that one can pull together a system of well-reviewed individual components and end up with a spectacular sound is also unrealistically optimistic. There's no question that such a starting point will yield a "good" sound, and possibly even a "much better than average" sound, but the vagaries of your room acoustics, your own ears and preferences, and the ability of the individual components to play nicely together all combine to make such "paperwork matching" more trouble than it's worth. You've got to go listen. Happy shopping - Boomzilla  |
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Post by brubacca on Oct 8, 2019 8:56:38 GMT -5
I think the Emotiva and Schiit products sound very different.
I have a Gungnir Multibit and love it. My future purchases would include a Freya (S probably) and a pair of Aegir amps.
That node 2i has a pretty good DAC. I'd be tempted to just use it for awhile after I got the pre and Amp.
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klinemj
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Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,086
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Post by klinemj on Oct 8, 2019 11:00:36 GMT -5
Incidentally, feel free to believe what you like, but we WILL be coming out with another DAC eventually. However, not for at least a few months yet.
(Hopefully soon this time... but we've been through that before. ) I have been obsessively sketching out my future system, making excel spreadsheets and price comparisons etc. and I think I have finally laid out the system I am going to build. Tekton Pendragon Speakers XSP-1 Preamp DR-2 Amplifier Node2i Streamer DAC = ? I have pretty much given up on Emotiva coming out with another DAC so I was considering either the Schiit Gungnir Multibit or the Yggdrasil to use in conjunction with the XSP preamp. Does anyone have any comments on those Dac's? I am also open to other suggestions, I only need the DAC component since pre and amp functions will be taken care of with the above mentioned gear. Thanks! I'm still willing to give it a pre-run to compare to my LH Labs Geek Pulse x Infinity! Dan, Lonnie, and I were talking at the last Emofest, and I said that for me to be interested - it would have to beat the Geek. Dan said "Lonnie, we should get him an early one to try to give us feedback". Still happy to do that...and will remain confidential about it. Mark |
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Post by rockman85 on Oct 8, 2019 12:30:17 GMT -5
I think the Emotiva and Schiit products sound very different. I have a Gungnir Multibit and love it. My future purchases would include a Freya (S probably) and a pair of Aegir amps. That node 2i has a pretty good DAC. I'd be tempted to just use it for awhile after I got the pre and Amp. Just thought I would comment on this, currently I have my Node2i setup so that I can toggle between its analogue and digital outputs, both are feeding into my Stealth DC-1. The Node2i's Dac is good, very close to the DC-1 in the mids and the trebles. But the strange thing is it seems to completely lack any low end. Double bass kick drums, and low end bass sounds from electronic music almost disappear with the Node, I have to turn my subwoofer up to hear this missing bass. With the DC-1 I almost never need to use my subwoofer as that bass slam come through quite clearly from the speakers alone. Just an fyi in case low end is important to you. Otherwise yes it is a very serviceable DAC. |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Oct 8, 2019 14:14:03 GMT -5
Absolutely..... (Freya isn't just a knob... it does also include a buffer and some gain.)
The basic function of a preamp is to provide some gain and a volume control. And, to be quite honest, that's not something that's especially difficult to design or build.
That gain can be provided, with truly superb performance, by a really high-end $10 op-amp, and four precision resistors, which cost about $1 each. Or, for those who prefer discrete components, a small handful of separate transistors and resistors... (tubes make it more complicated).
(The most expensive parts are the box, the knob, the input selector, the power supply, the connectors, and the box.)
The short answer, and the most accurate one, is that it may or may not. DACs are one of those products where "personal preference" quite often overshadows "technical performance".
(That's a nice way of saying that, while someone else may like the way the $1250 one sounds better, that doesn't mean that it technically performs better, or that YOU will like it better.)
Also, in terms of sound quality, when it comes to DACs, different people have very different preferences and priorities.
I have personally owned dozens of DACs over the years (far too many) - ranging in price from about $15 to about $1500 (none of them was a Gumby).
By my preferences the DC-1 was easily the best sounding one of the lot.
I should also point out that preamps and DACs are very different animals....
Thanks for your input as always. Yes, I firmly understand the subjectiveness of DACs, sadly my experience with different ones is very limited. Just searching for the holy grail in sound and any input helps in lieu of actual personal testing (hence this post). Come the day when triggers will be pulled I will probably need to buy / demo / and return some gear in order to really get a sense of what works in my system. As for preamps, apples to apples, solid state to solid state, what is the difference between the Schiit Freya and the XSP-1. As far as I can tell the Freya is just and enormous volume knob. The XSP has phono inputs, high pass and low pass crossover / bass mgmt, tone boosts, analogue out for both amplifiers and subs. To me it seems like a hell of a lot more kit for the money. If you took off all those awesome features though, arent the two preamps basically doing the same thing? |
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