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Post by babadono on Nov 7, 2019 19:47:25 GMT -5
Recently got a Gen 3, 3 channel amp for my front 3 speakers of my HT. When running Audysey(spelling?) to re cal my setup it said speakers were out of phase? So I swapped the speaker wires. Looked in manual and it said something about following some European standard. Who gives a **** about some European standard, which I doubt exists anyway. The only standard that should matter is the Audio Engineering Society standard, pin 2 is hot(+), pin 3 is cold(-), pin 1 is chassis.
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Post by fritz on Nov 7, 2019 19:52:51 GMT -5
Out of phase means + and - are not connected to your speakers correctly
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Post by babadono on Nov 7, 2019 19:58:40 GMT -5
Out of phase means + and - are not connected to your speakers correctly Yea Ok I get that but why? All i did was un hook my speakers from a Marantz AVR, insert the Emotiva amp using the AVRs pre outs and hook my speakers back up. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 7, 2019 20:20:06 GMT -5
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Post by adaboy on Nov 8, 2019 1:09:21 GMT -5
Thanks for giving me more work to do at home, now I have to go in and swap the reds and black wires in my theater and office. Office not so bad, but theater is a mix of xlr and rca connections. So I'll swap them out and re-run Audyssey. Hopefully I'll notice a gain. ๐ |
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Post by simpleman68 on Nov 8, 2019 8:42:16 GMT -5
Thanks for giving me more work to do at home, now I have to go in and swap the reds and black wires in my theater and office. Office not so bad, but theater is a mix of xlr and rca connections. So I'll swap them out and re-run Audyssey. Hopefully I'll notice a gain. ๐ I ran through this a few times when my processor told me that channels were out of phase when running room correction.
Not sure why they chose to wire them as such. Things get really weird when you attempt to use an amp other than an Emotiva unit together in a theater rig.
I wound up switching my wires to connect + to - and vice versa to avoid the error messages when doing room correction.
Scott
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Post by mgbpuff on Nov 8, 2019 10:12:54 GMT -5
Phase will always be an issue. Some amps invert phase, some do not. So get use to the fact that this is something that always must be checked upon set up.
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 9,924
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Post by KeithL on Nov 8, 2019 10:14:49 GMT -5
Exactly...
About Absolute Phase
Many modern multi-track recordings are made with no attention paid to absolute phase. (Once tracks with different absolute phase have been mixed together there's nothing whatsoever you can do to correct it.) And there's still lively discussion, among both audiophiles and recording engineers, about whether you can really hear the difference or not.
Stereophile conducted a test several years ago... (it's still available for free online).
From their results... With certain recordings, and on certain specific speakers, listeners could indeed sometimes hear a slight difference between "normal" and "flipped" absolute phase. However, interestingly, their listeners could NOT identify which was which, and did NOT consider either to sound consistently better.
They also noted an interesting correlation between transducer quality and whether the difference was audible. They concluded that the difference was only audible on speakers and headphones with a lot of asymmetrical distortion... (Their words... not ours!)
Anyone interested in this subject should read that article... or, at the very least, skip to the Summary...
However, at least some modern recordings claim to have been carefully mixed to preserve absolute phase... And at least some people insist they can hear the difference... And you do want to match the absolute phase of all the amplifiers in a multi-channel system...
And it doesn't seem unreasonable to simply want it to be right...
So, if it really concerns you, or you're mixing our amps with others that preserve absolute phase... And since our latest amps invert it (only on their balanced inputs)... All you have to do to preserve absolute phase perfectly is to swap the (+) and (-) speaker leads.
(Or, if you really want to, you can construct a special XLR-to-XLR cable that swaps the signal pins - but nobody seems to bother to sell them.)
Thanks for giving me more work to do at home, now I have to go in and swap the reds and black wires in my theater and office. Office not so bad, but theater is a mix of xlr and rca connections. So I'll swap them out and re-run Audyssey. Hopefully I'll notice a gain. ๐ I ran through this a few times when my processor told me that channels were out of phase when running room correction. Not sure why they chose to wire them as such. Things get really weird when you attempt to use an amp other than an Emotiva unit together in a theater rig. I wound up switching my wires to connect + to - and vice versa to avoid the error messages when doing room correction.
Scott
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Post by adaboy on Nov 8, 2019 20:55:31 GMT -5
Ok so after switching (reversing) the speaker polarity on the Emotiva amps that are using XLR. I re-ran Audyssey and it immediately showed all 5 channels as out of phase. The other 6 are using RCA connections therefore I didn't change anything with them. I switched 5 channels back to red to red and black to black all but one (front right) showed the correct polarity. I switched it at the speaker and re-ran, the results came back as both fronts were reversed??? Weird, so I switched the (front right) back to normal and kept moving along. After I finish all calibration positions I'll report back.
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Post by adaboy on Nov 8, 2019 23:04:57 GMT -5
Ok all set, no issues here. I ran audyssey 6 positions and have been adjusting my subs for seasoning.
Outside of the curiosity I'll say it was more of a waste of time. The Marantz 8805 works well with Emotiva's XPA 3 gen 1 and two XPA-100's. The A700 for atmos and back surround are rca and are fine from Emotiva's stated design.
Not sure what all the hubbub was about with the phase "issue".
Audyssey at least didn't like swapping the terminals.
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Post by simpleman68 on Nov 8, 2019 23:08:10 GMT -5
Ok all set, no issues here. I ran audyssey 6 positions and have been adjusting my subs for seasoning. Outside of the curiosity I'll say it was more of a waste of time. The Marantz 8805 works well with Emotiva's XPA 3 gen 1 and two XPA-100's. The A700 for atmos and back surround are rca and are fine from Emotiva's stated design. Not sure what all the hubbub was about with the phase "issue". Audyssey at least didn't like swapping the terminals. Funky, I'm also running the 8805 with a DR 3 and XPA 6 (gen 3) and I got out of phase notifications on all channels. I switched at the amp and all was good with Audyssey. Scott
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Post by adaboy on Nov 8, 2019 23:17:39 GMT -5
Ok all set, no issues here. I ran audyssey 6 positions and have been adjusting my subs for seasoning. Outside of the curiosity I'll say it was more of a waste of time. The Marantz 8805 works well with Emotiva's XPA 3 gen 1 and two XPA-100's. The A700 for atmos and back surround are rca and are fine from Emotiva's stated design. Not sure what all the hubbub was about with the phase "issue". Audyssey at least didn't like swapping the terminals. Funky, I'm also running the 8805 with a DR 3 and XPA 6 (gen 3) and I got out of phase notifications on all channels. I switched at the amp and all was good with Audyssey. Scott
Wondering if the Gen 1 and Gen 2 doesn't have this issue with Marantz? |
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Post by adaboy on Nov 10, 2019 3:19:30 GMT -5
Funky, I'm also running the 8805 with a DR 3 and XPA 6 (gen 3) and I got out of phase notifications on all channels. I switched at the amp and all was good with Audyssey. Scott
Wondering if the Gen 1 and Gen 2 doesn't have this issue with Marantz? Still dialing the room back in, I like the Audyssey app, kinda neat. Anyways watched First Man with the Mrs. First thing was the action was too hot for her in the main listening seat, so we swapped and I was like YES! I ended up bringing it down a few db around to - 13. I did add more sub levels for seasoning. Funny I almost forgot I had the movie, as I was waiting since June to complete some construction. I moved the audio rack from behind the seating to in-wall next to the screen. Loving the new room adjustments, thinking about adding sound absorption clouds now that the carpet is gone. The room is definitely livelier even with the current treatments. Might add a shaggy throw rug as well. Well, I will tinker more after church. |
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