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Post by kierre on Jan 27, 2020 8:59:53 GMT -5
The Panasonic UB9000 was next on my list to grab and one of the main reasons I went with it vice the UB820 was to eliminate the need to purchase a separate high end CD player. I was ready to purchase the UB820 and Emotiva ERC4 and chose to save a dollar or two. Cost was one rationale and another was between three DAC implementations; UB9000 itself, Cambridge 8151N and the XMC2, I figured I should be reasonably satisfied with one those choices. The Panasonic is limited on what it plays back so no SACD and no MQA decoding which are things that I'm curious about but not fully invested in. I don't have any SACDs and I'll standby to assess the staying power of MQA. The only things I have that plays 4K blu-ray at the moment are computers and a XBOX and while they are functional, I need something more dedicated in it's functionality along the lines of video and sound quality.
So, does anyone have any opinions on the audio playback of the unit and if it will stand on it's own as a CD player? Most articles I've read spend most of their time addressing the video quality and options.
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,273
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Post by KeithL on Jan 27, 2020 9:57:12 GMT -5
I have never heard the audio output on the Panasonic UB9000...
But I would remind everyone that, if you it as a transport, and use its digital output with the DACs in the XMC-2, then it is the XMC-2 that will determine how it sounds.
(A digital transport simply supplies bits to the DAC in whatever device performs the D/A conversion... and it is almost entirely the DAC that determines what the resulting analog audio sounds like.)
The Panasonic UB9000 was next on my list to grab and one of the main reasons I went with it vice the UB820 was to eliminate the need to purchase a separate high end CD player. I was ready to purchase the UB820 and Emotiva ERC4 and chose to save a dollar or two. Cost was one rationale and another was between three DAC implementations; UB9000 itself, Cambridge 8151N and the XMC2, I figured I should be reasonably satisfied with one those choices. The Panasonic is limited on what it plays back so no SACD and no MQA decoding which are things that I'm curious about but not fully invested in. I don't have any SACDs and I'll standby to assess the staying power of MQA. The only things I have that plays 4K blu-ray at the moment are computers and a XBOX and while they are functional, I need something more dedicated in it's functionality along the lines of video and sound quality. So, does anyone have any opinions on the audio playback of the unit and if it will stand on it's own as a CD player? Most articles I've read spend most of their time addressing the video quality and options. |
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Post by garbulky on Jan 27, 2020 10:01:14 GMT -5
I have never heard the audio output on the Panasonic UB9000... But I would remind everyone that, if you it as a transport, and use its digital output with the DACs in the XMC-2, then it is the XMC-2 that will determine how it sounds.
(A digital transport simply supplies bits to the DAC in whatever device performs the D/A conversion... and it is almost entirely the DAC that determines what the resulting analog audio sounds like.)
The Panasonic UB9000 was next on my list to grab and one of the main reasons I went with it vice the UB820 was to eliminate the need to purchase a separate high end CD player. I was ready to purchase the UB820 and Emotiva ERC4 and chose to save a dollar or two. Cost was one rationale and another was between three DAC implementations; UB9000 itself, Cambridge 8151N and the XMC2, I figured I should be reasonably satisfied with one those choices. The Panasonic is limited on what it plays back so no SACD and no MQA decoding which are things that I'm curious about but not fully invested in. I don't have any SACDs and I'll standby to assess the staying power of MQA. The only things I have that plays 4K blu-ray at the moment are computers and a XBOX and while they are functional, I need something more dedicated in it's functionality along the lines of video and sound quality. So, does anyone have any opinions on the audio playback of the unit and if it will stand on it's own as a CD player? Most articles I've read spend most of their time addressing the video quality and options. What he said .... my $40 dvd player sounds the same as a a $1500 Oppo when used as a transport to my DAC downstream. If it's used as a transport - the only reason to get an ERC-4 is to use the fine looking AES digital output it has. Not that it would really make any difference. |
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Post by davidl81 on Jan 27, 2020 10:05:51 GMT -5
The Panasonic UB9000 was next on my list to grab and one of the main reasons I went with it vice the UB820 was to eliminate the need to purchase a separate high end CD player. I was ready to purchase the UB820 and Emotiva ERC4 and chose to save a dollar or two. Cost was one rationale and another was between three DAC implementations; UB9000 itself, Cambridge 8151N and the XMC2, I figured I should be reasonably satisfied with one those choices. The Panasonic is limited on what it plays back so no SACD and no MQA decoding which are things that I'm curious about but not fully invested in. I don't have any SACDs and I'll standby to assess the staying power of MQA. The only things I have that plays 4K blu-ray at the moment are computers and a XBOX and while they are functional, I need something more dedicated in it's functionality along the lines of video and sound quality. So, does anyone have any opinions on the audio playback of the unit and if it will stand on it's own as a CD player? Most articles I've read spend most of their time addressing the video quality and options. Are you planning on using the XLR audio outputs on the UB9000? If not and running just HDMI to your pre/pro then the player wont make any difference in SQ since the DAC of your pre/pro would be doing that work. Video wise I have the 8200 and it has been a great player. |
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Post by doc1963 on Jan 27, 2020 11:00:28 GMT -5
The Panasonic UB9000 was next on my list to grab and one of the main reasons I went with it vice the UB820 was to eliminate the need to purchase a separate high end CD player. I was ready to purchase the UB820 and Emotiva ERC4 and chose to save a dollar or two. Cost was one rationale and another was between three DAC implementations; UB9000 itself, Cambridge 8151N and the XMC2, I figured I should be reasonably satisfied with one those choices. The Panasonic is limited on what it plays back so no SACD and no MQA decoding which are things that I'm curious about but not fully invested in. I don't have any SACDs and I'll standby to assess the staying power of MQA. The only things I have that plays 4K blu-ray at the moment are computers and a XBOX and while they are functional, I need something more dedicated in it's functionality along the lines of video and sound quality. So, does anyone have any opinions on the audio playback of the unit and if it will stand on it's own as a CD player? Most articles I've read spend most of their time addressing the video quality and options. I own the 9000 and what everyone has stated above is true if using the HDMI output as a "single point" connection... It won't matter. But since you do not specify how you're intending to connect, I'll add my opinion since my 9000 is connected to both my AV8805 (for video playback) and my XSP-1 (for 2-channel playback). The 2-channel sound quality of the 9000 is on par with that of my ERC-3 (which is one of the finest stand alone CD players that I’ve owned). Having said that, be fully aware that there is one major quirk in the design of the 9000 that is unusual, inconvenient and extremely counterproductive... The analog audio outputs (including the multi-channel outputs) as well as the digital outputs do NOT operate concurrently with HDMI audio output. In order for those outputs to work (analog or SPIDF), you must go into the player’s setup menu and turn off HDMI audio. Once you’re finished your CD listening session, you then must go back into the settings and turn HDMI audio back on. If you fail to do that, you’ll get no bitstreamed audio from your Blu-ray discs over HDMI. I purchased the 9000 for the same reason as you (to replace my ERC-3 and consolidate the number of components in my system), but due to this, I rarely use it for anything other than physical 4K UHD disc media. Over the years, I’ve ripped my entire CD collection to FLAC files and stream them locally. So, my need for a standalone player has diminished and this isn’t really that big of a deal. However, it might impact you differently. Especially if you want to maintain a "set it and forget it" environment. If you do not intend upon using the 9000 outside of the scope of a simple HDMI connection, then I would concentrate on the elements that will really matter and opt for something less expensive. The 820 would be a better choice. Hope this helps…  |
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Post by kierre on Jan 27, 2020 11:41:29 GMT -5
The Panasonic UB9000 was next on my list to grab and one of the main reasons I went with it vice the UB820 was to eliminate the need to purchase a separate high end CD player. I was ready to purchase the UB820 and Emotiva ERC4 and chose to save a dollar or two. Cost was one rationale and another was between three DAC implementations; UB9000 itself, Cambridge 8151N and the XMC2, I figured I should be reasonably satisfied with one those choices. The Panasonic is limited on what it plays back so no SACD and no MQA decoding which are things that I'm curious about but not fully invested in. I don't have any SACDs and I'll standby to assess the staying power of MQA. The only things I have that plays 4K blu-ray at the moment are computers and a XBOX and while they are functional, I need something more dedicated in it's functionality along the lines of video and sound quality. So, does anyone have any opinions on the audio playback of the unit and if it will stand on it's own as a CD player? Most articles I've read spend most of their time addressing the video quality and options. Are you planning on using the XLR audio outputs on the UB9000? If not and running just HDMI to your pre/pro then the player wont make any difference in SQ since the DAC of your pre/pro would be doing that work. Video wise I have the 8200 and it has been a great player. I suppose I should have specified how I was intending to take advantage of the UB9000 as a music player. Scenario 1 using inherent DAC of the UB9000 = output from the UB9000 via XLR and into the XMC2 balanced in / or from the dedicated L/R dedicated for 2ch RCA jacks Scenario 2 using Cambridge 851N DAC = digital output (AES/BEU/coaxial/Toslink) of the UB9000 into the 'like' digital connection on the 851N Secnario 3 using the XMC DAC = digital output (AES/BEU/coaxial/Toslink) of the UB9000 into the 'like' digital connection on the XMC2 |
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Post by garbulky on Jan 27, 2020 12:31:33 GMT -5
Are you planning on using the XLR audio outputs on the UB9000? If not and running just HDMI to your pre/pro then the player wont make any difference in SQ since the DAC of your pre/pro would be doing that work. Video wise I have the 8200 and it has been a great player. I suppose I should have specified how I was intending to take advantage of the UB9000 as a music player. Scenario 1 using inherent DAC of the UB9000 = output from the UB9000 via XLR and into the XMC2 balanced in / or from the dedicated L/R dedicated for 2ch RCA jacks Scenario 2 using Cambridge 851N DAC = digital output (AES/BEU/coaxial/Toslink) of the UB9000 into the 'like' digital connection on the 851N Secnario 3 using the XMC DAC = digital output (AES/BEU/coaxial/Toslink) of the UB9000 into the 'like' digital connection on the XMC2 Though I wouldn't say you WON'T hear a difference between the DAC, chances are the XMC-2 will sound just as good to you. But who knows... Fyi: the UB9000 has no AES/EBU output. |
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Post by kierre on Jan 27, 2020 12:55:38 GMT -5
The Panasonic UB9000 was next on my list to grab and one of the main reasons I went with it vice the UB820 was to eliminate the need to purchase a separate high end CD player. I was ready to purchase the UB820 and Emotiva ERC4 and chose to save a dollar or two. Cost was one rationale and another was between three DAC implementations; UB9000 itself, Cambridge 8151N and the XMC2, I figured I should be reasonably satisfied with one those choices. The Panasonic is limited on what it plays back so no SACD and no MQA decoding which are things that I'm curious about but not fully invested in. I don't have any SACDs and I'll standby to assess the staying power of MQA. The only things I have that plays 4K blu-ray at the moment are computers and a XBOX and while they are functional, I need something more dedicated in it's functionality along the lines of video and sound quality. So, does anyone have any opinions on the audio playback of the unit and if it will stand on it's own as a CD player? Most articles I've read spend most of their time addressing the video quality and options. I own the 9000 and what everyone has stated above is true if using the HDMI output as a "single point" connection... It won't matter. But since you do not specify how you're intending to connect, I'll add my opinion since my 9000 is connected to both my AV8805 (for video playback) and my XSP-1 (for 2-channel playback). The 2-channel sound quality of the 9000 is on par with that of my ERC-3 (which is one of the finest stand alone CD players that I’ve owned). Having said that, be fully aware that there is one major quirk in the design of the 9000 that is unusual, inconvenient and extremely counterproductive... The analog audio outputs (including the multi-channel outputs) as well as the digital outputs do NOT operate concurrently with HDMI audio output. In order for those outputs to work (analog or SPIDF), you must go into the player’s setup menu and turn off HDMI audio. Once you’re finished your CD listening session, you then must go back into the settings and turn HDMI audio back on. If you fail to do that, you’ll get no bitstreamed audio from your Blu-ray discs over HDMI. I purchased the 9000 for the same reason as you (to replace my ERC-3 and consolidate the number of components in my system), but due to this, I rarely use it for anything other than physical 4K UHD disc media. Over the years, I’ve ripped my entire CD collection to FLAC files and stream them locally. So, my need for a standalone player has diminished and this isn’t really that big of a deal. However, it might impact you differently. Especially if you want to maintain a "set it and forget it" environment. If you do not intend upon using the 9000 outside of the scope of a simple HDMI connection, then I would concentrate on the elements that will really matter and opt for something less expensive. The 820 would be a better choice. Hope this helps… That certainly does help and thanks! I did read somewhere that you had to switch off the HDMI audio to take advantage of the 2ch output and I hoped it was something that was later rectified with a firmware update. It looks like they haven't touched the firmware since July of 2019 (FW 1.60). That definitely sounds like a pain. Maybe a macro from one of those Harmony remotes could be a band-aid work-around? |
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Post by kierre on Jan 27, 2020 13:12:42 GMT -5
I suppose I should have specified how I was intending to take advantage of the UB9000 as a music player. Scenario 1 using inherent DAC of the UB9000 = output from the UB9000 via XLR and into the XMC2 balanced in / or from the dedicated L/R dedicated for 2ch RCA jacks Scenario 2 using Cambridge 851N DAC = digital output (AES/BEU/coaxial/Toslink) of the UB9000 into the 'like' digital connection on the 851N Secnario 3 using the XMC DAC = digital output (AES/BEU/coaxial/Toslink) of the UB9000 into the 'like' digital connection on the XMC2 Though I wouldn't say you WON'T hear a difference between the DAC, chances are the XMC-2 will sound just as good to you. But who knows... Fyi: the UB9000 has no AES/EBU output. Yes, I'm with you and I don't expect to hear vast differences, but with either solution I should get that grin or raised eyebrow, that my wife points out when she notices I like something. No idea how I screwed up and thought that the Panny had AES, other than perhaps I was thinking of the 851N's in/outputs. Even with that, they are not laid out the same at all, so no excuse  |
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Post by kierre on Jan 30, 2020 12:30:08 GMT -5
So, I have everything reconnected and the Panny has been integrated into my system. I ended up wiring the Panny to take advantage of either it's own DAC (analog out to XMC analog in) XMC's or the Azur 851N. I have essentially cross-connected XMC, Azur 851N, DAT, and Panny to be sources that will be able to use different DAC implementations utilizing the several inputs and outputs. I had to draw it up using Power Point, but the XMC certainly helped make it easier by having assignable inputs.
doc1963, I'm reasonably certain that in my current configuration I was able to successfully hear audio CDs via the Panny's analog RCA (--> XMC 1st analog input), optical (--> Azur 851N toslink input) and HDMI seamlessly, without having to change any settings. I'm on version 1.60 and would be happy to go through my settings with you in hopes that a change would allow you to do the same. I am the second owner of my unit and I did execute a factory reset before doing anything with it. Can you believe that the digital footprint of the original owner was still all over it? I could log into their Netflix and Prime if I was that kind of person. I can't remind people enough that if you have 'connected' devices to return, please delete your data.
Overall very please with the Panny. The drive is very quiet and it is quite responsive. As far as the sound, I'm not disappointed but I haven't determined a preference in how I listen to it yet. I'm still breaking the XMC and the Azur 851N in anyway. I will take my time.
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NicS
Sensei
Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
Posts: 238
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Post by NicS on Dec 7, 2020 22:55:43 GMT -5
I don't want much from a UDP BluRay player. I don't want a fancy onboard DAC. I don't want a whole host of streaming services. I don't want lots of different outputs. I want a transport that is versatile and flexible:
I want it to play DVDs with upscaling of decent quality
I want it to play BluRays in Ultra 4K
I want it to play SACD, DVDA, BRAudio, CD, CDRW and any other disc I put in it, from any region
I want it to have a front panel USB3 input that will play any file on it, with any kind for formatted drive
I want it to have HDMI outputs for both Video and dedicated Audio in multichannel, on a user upgradable card
I want it to have a USB output for BitPerfect digital files stored on a network, on a user upgradeable card
I want it to have an internal hard drive for local storage of favorite recordings, and an input for an external hard drive
I want it to be have Roon, Airplay, Plex and MQA capability
I want it to be able to play any format of digital file with absolutely no interpolation whatsoever
I want it to have Atmos, 5.1, 7.1, DTS, DTS-X and any other format easily upgradable with firmware
I want t to handle HDR and Dolby Vision in all it's versions, upgradable with firmware
I want it to have decent calibration controls
I want the unit to have a front panel screen, so I can see the video material being played for cuing purposes
I want to be able to control the menu functions of the unit with an app, more easily than using the one panel buttons
Is that too much to ask for? Really?
Some BluRay players get close but all fall short, either lacking in features, or having a whole lot of stuff I just don't need.
Bummer
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Post by garbulky on Dec 8, 2020 2:18:02 GMT -5
I don't want much from a UDP BluRay player. I don't want a fancy onboard DAC. I don't want a whole host of streaming services. I don't want lots of different outputs. I want a transport that is versatile and flexible: I want it to play DVDs with upscaling of decent quality I want it to play BluRays in Ultra 4K I want it to play SACD, DVDA, BRAudio, CD, CDRW and any other disc I put in it, from any region I want it to have a front panel USB3 input that will play any file on it, with any kind for formatted drive I want it to have HDMI outputs for both Video and dedicated Audio in multichannel, on a user upgradable card I want it to have a USB output for BitPerfect digital files stored on a network, on a user upgradeable card I want it to have an internal hard drive for local storage of favorite recordings, and an input for an external hard drive I want it to be have Roon, Airplay, Plex and MQA capability I want it to be able to play any format of digital file with absolutely no interpolation whatsoever I want it to have Atmos, 5.1, 7.1, DTS, DTS-X and any other format easily upgradable with firmware I want t to handle HDR and Dolby Vision in all it's versions, upgradable with firmware I want it to have decent calibration controls I want the unit to have a front panel screen, so I can see the video material being played for cuing purposes I want to be able to control the menu functions of the unit with an app, more easily than using the one panel buttons Is that too much to ask for? Really? Some BluRay players get close but all fall short, either lacking in features, or having a whole lot of stuff I just don't need. Bummer Your issue is really when you combine the niche audio features with niche video features. People interested in audio are even rarer than people interested in the latest video features. It doesn't help that a lot of the audio features we are looking for are old stuff (SACD, Plex, DVD A). CDRW? Man, I don't know many people that play CDs now. I mean I do, but they are all audiophiles. While people interested in the latest video features want the latest stuff. So there's a distinct disconnect which is where our issues are. Me, I'm flabbergasted that the ONE thing that they used to do right is now almost gone. It used to be that all players had a two channel digital output - be it optical or coax, you could just count on that. No matter how advanced the other features got, you knew it could play on any old 2 channel dac. But now even that is gone replaced by HDMI (which most two channel dacs do not support). |
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NicS
Sensei
Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
Posts: 238
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Post by NicS on Dec 8, 2020 2:49:50 GMT -5
I use a turntable for any recordings made of that era.
As for digital music, and video, I try and use the best format possible.
I listen to music in mono, stereo, quadraphonic, 5.1 and Atmos (11 channel).
I just want a UDP that will do a comprehensive job.
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