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Post by bluescale on May 3, 2020 16:56:10 GMT -5
The frequency response curve on this sub is FLAT. The 18" sub that you're talking about, bluescale may be great for home theater (big boom impacts for explosions), but for music, I'd put money (a lot) on the Emotiva unit. Pitch definition is what is needed for music, and any sub with a radically peaked response (as most home theater subs have) won't do pitch as well as a sub that has flat response. Your definition of "very musical" is questionable until the sub's frequency response is verified. Note that the Emotiva sub is virtually flat from 20 to 200 Hz. (MORE than three octaves!). Not many subs can do that. Really. THAT's why the Emotiva sub costs what it does. It takes some serious amplification (and engineering) to make a subwoofer that measures flat for even an octave, much less more than three. And yes, that difference IS audible. I was highly skeptical of Emotiva's measurements, but I just looked at the features again, and saw that the RS13 has a built in DSP. Without it, the ruler flat response would have been unbelievable, as that's just not how the physics of subs work. The DSP might justify the added cost, depending on how it functions. The manual, however, doesn't explain how to use the DSP to shape the sound beyond the two presets. If they are just presets without the ability to measure and adjust the in-room response, then I don't get the point of the added expense. A flat measurement outdoors, or in a chamber doesn't mean a whole lot once you put it in your room. If the built in DSP isn't highly customizable, you would still need something like a miniDSP or Dirac to ensure and appropriate bass response. I don't even see a single band PEQ to help with in-room response. If the presets really are all you get, best performance will probably come from setting the sub to Deep for the most output (and to bypass the electronic shaping happening inside the sub), and then using an external DSP to shape the curve to your room. But that's a guess, and a lot of measurements would be needed to understand how everything works. If you want an example of what I mean by a full functioning DSP, here's a sub plate amplifier that Dayton sells with a DSP. Take a look at all the included functionality: www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-spa1200dsp-1200w-subwoofer-amplifier-with-dsp--300-8000As for the 18" subwoofer I'm talking about, it's not at all boomy, and has been independently measured by Ricci at data-bass. It's excellent in all aspects, including music. It does not have a full DSP, but does allow several ways to shape the curve (18 different combinations, plus a 1 band PEQ). I'm hesitant to link to the 3rd part measurements, as I don't want to advertise for someone else. Hopefully Emotiva decides to have the RS13 measured by data-bass. Emotiva did provide one of their previous subs, the X-Ref 12, to data-bass for measurement, but nothing more recent, unfortunately. Again, this is not to diss the RS13. I bet it sounds excellent, based on my experience with Emotiva's speakers and subs. I'm used to Emotiva being a cost leader, and this doesn't fall into that category unless I'm missing something. For a lot of people the extra cost might still be justified to support Emotiva, and to match the Airmotiv aesthetic. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, both from Emotiva's business perspective, and from the consumer's perspective. Performance per dollar spent isn't the only consideration when buying a product. Now, if this has a fully configurable DSP at this price, I'll change my value assessment. Usually subs with powerful DSPs cost a lot more, and this would be another example of Emo providing features and performance at a cost others can't touch. |
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Post by Boomzilla on May 3, 2020 21:50:58 GMT -5
I’d assume most potential customers use the DSP in their AVR or processor for room adjustments. If the sub’s already flat, the additional room program doesn’t have to work as hard.
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on May 4, 2020 7:24:23 GMT -5
Does anyone have this sub in their system?
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Post by bluescale on May 4, 2020 15:13:15 GMT -5
Does anyone have this sub in their system? I was searching for reviews and haven't found any yet. Makes sense since it's quite new. Hopefully it'll make its way into the wild over the next few months. |
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Post by magnepan on May 10, 2020 16:49:27 GMT -5
I am lucky that I can compare this sub to the flagship SVS PB Ultra-16. Like any sub or loudspeaker the room environment can make a speaker either sound wonderful or not so much. We all know that Emotiva builds Incredible products at a truly great price! There new flagship sub is no exception to this rule either. Having them both setup in the same room and making a direct comparison one would think if specs are specs there should be very little difference since it appears everyone seems to brag about specs correct? Well there were differences and moving each sub around swamping there positions etc. I came back to my original conclusion that room size, placement and speaker matching can either make or break a system. You can use all the different room corrections that are available out there. I use DIRAC and found out thru the years that I prefer acoustical treatments over DSP. Now back to the sub comparison. I was astonished that I like the Emotiva sub over the SVS. Both of these subs are incredibly powerful in bass performance. However I felt that The Emotiva sub had better pitch definition the lower it went versus the SVS. The SVS sub gave me the impression that it had more output possibly but pitch and speed went to Emotiva. If you want bulk and size SVS all the way and that piano black finish. If you want a sub that’s less than half the size of the SVS and is truly a great performer along with a great price point Emotiva. My only regret is that I wish this sub could be controlled by in app like SVS makes its setup much easier.
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on May 10, 2020 20:11:31 GMT -5
^^^ very nice review thanks!
I also have a PB16 ultra. Did you test with the PB16 in sealed mode or did you use other modes like 1 plug or no plugs?
I felt like the PB16 was the best in extended mode. One of the main benefits of the PB16 is the crazy amount of bass and impact during movie watching.
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Post by magnepan on May 10, 2020 21:05:00 GMT -5
With SVS I tried plugging the ports one or two etc. frankly In the room that it was in it sounded better with the ports not plugged. SVS makes phenomenal subs at great prices too! This sub by Emotiva price, performance, size and value in my belief is such incredible deal.
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on May 10, 2020 21:23:09 GMT -5
With SVS I tried plugging the ports one or two etc. frankly In the room that it was in it sounded better with the ports not plugged. SVS makes phenomenal subs at great prices too! This sub by Emotiva price, performance, size and value in my belief is such incredible deal. Ok that makes sense. The PB16 is like a fan with the ports open during movies. It moves so much air. But the fact that the Emotiva sub is designed for music/ movies vs movies/music makes sense. Sounds like the Emotiva is the real deal! |
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Post by leonski on May 13, 2020 5:45:34 GMT -5
I should have stayed in school so I could afford such nice things, the AF recruiter lied.....that sumbitch.  Haha, sounds familiar. The Navy recruiter told my son he would see the world if he joined the Navy, aboard a submarine! How often does a nuclear sub even surface  Sure.....'See the World'......What's omitted is that your view will be thru the PERISCOPE when allowed...... |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 21:56:05 GMT -5
Talked to Dan on Friday and he has me thinking about picking up a pair of RS13s to compare against some Power Sound Audio S18 IPALs I just bought. Would make for an interesting shoot-out.
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Post by leonski on May 17, 2020 1:09:39 GMT -5
Talked to Dan on Friday and he has me thinking about picking up a pair of RS13s to compare against some Power Sound Audio S18 IPALs I just bought. Would make for an interesting shoot-out. How large a room? Not just square footage, but real size. Add in ceiling height..... I have a HSU 12" sub. A VTF2 mk3 or mk4 with double ports. One of which can be plugged. I find this single sub, properly placed will excite a maybe 4000 cubic foot room and yield a very musical result. And when a DEEP rumble is called for, or a Dinosaur stomping around? Got that, too. My point is that from the looks of it, unless you have an awful space, a single RS13 should about rattle your fillings loose. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 10:22:31 GMT -5
How large a room? Not just square footage, but real size. Add in ceiling height..... I have a HSU 12" sub. A VTF2 mk3 or mk4 with double ports. One of which can be plugged. I find this single sub, properly placed will excite a maybe 4000 cubic foot room and yield a very musical result. And when a DEEP rumble is called for, or a Dinosaur stomping around? Got that, too. My point is that from the looks of it, unless you have an awful space, a single RS13 should about rattle your fillings loose. Well, I would estimate a fairly similar volume as you. It's an open floor plan and there are some half walls and nooks that really complicate the main listening room. I was previously using a pair of Rythmik FV15HP and it took both of those to load the room. While one sub could certainly 'fill' the room, it doesn't pressurize it or fight the oddities of the space the same way two can. |
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Post by leonski on May 17, 2020 19:17:16 GMT -5
Just for giggles, here's what I got going:
My listening area has 8 walls. No 2 alike and at least 2 of which are at about a 45degree angle. Ceiling is about 11 1/2 fee at the peak, which is NOT on the centerline of the room.
My den of about 800 cubic feet is to one side and the entry to the hall to the back is on the front wall, where I have the speakers. The kitchen is off the OTHER end and is over 1000 cubic feet.....
My den, is a bad space. With the sub on the LEFT side (across the width of the listening room) the den acted as a one-note helmholtz. REAL boomy and non-musical. Irritating to spend
time in when music was on.
Moving the sub to behind the RIGHT speaker fixed that AND made other positive changes. -
So I get it when you have trouble saying XXX cubic feet. Do you count all the attached space? Do open doors matter or not? My house is 1200 square feet. IF I had an average ceiling height of
9 feet, that would be just shy of 11,000 cubic feet. I'd need 6 x 12" to cover THAT much space. And the place would shake apart during the best scenes from some cool movies.
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Post by bluescale on May 19, 2020 1:40:20 GMT -5
My point is that from the looks of it, unless you have an awful space, a single RS13 should about rattle your fillings loose. Unless you're stacking them, multiple subs aren't really going to give you more SPL. What they give you is a smoother response especially at multiple seating locations. MY dual 15s don't play any louder than my single 15 played. However, they give me a very smooth response at all 3 main seats. |
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Post by leonski on May 19, 2020 1:49:19 GMT -5
Blue: You are generally quite right about 'even'. However, that's why I specifically noted how different my room is from the regular 'cubic' space. I think It's pretty nice after my adjustments. I'd love to do some sound treatments, but that is simply not going to happen any time soon. Here is the link to the Harman White Paper on subs and sub locations. pdfs.semanticscholar.org/00da/51387c572cfd27c0256cb15e44e976a1a72e.pdfThis is a very detailed study and should have new information for even the hard-core sub guy. |
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Post by bluescale on May 19, 2020 2:10:59 GMT -5
Talked to Dan on Friday and he has me thinking about picking up a pair of RS13s to compare against some Power Sound Audio S18 IPALs I just bought. Would make for an interesting shoot-out. I'll be very interested in hearing your thoughts if you make the leap. A 13" driver vs. an 18" driver, and vented vs. sealed. Those are some significant differences. The PSA IPAL subs are getting quite a bit of buzz right now. The Ipal driver is pretty awesome, but I wonder a bit about that cabinet. 79 pounds for that sub seems really light. The RS13, while being smaller, weighs more, which means you're more likely to have an inert cabinet which is good. Anyway, please let us know if you get it. That's a lot to ask fo the RS13, and it's be great to hear the results. If you use REW, I'd love to see in room response graphs. |
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Post by bluescale on May 19, 2020 2:26:25 GMT -5
Blue: You are generally quite right about 'even'. However, that's why I specifically noted how different my room is from the regular 'cubic' space. I think It's pretty nice after my adjustments. I'd love to do some sound treatments, but that is simply not going to happen any time soon. Here is the link to the Harman White Paper on subs and sub locations. pdfs.semanticscholar.org/00da/51387c572cfd27c0256cb15e44e976a1a72e.pdfThis is a very detailed study and should have new information for even the hard-core sub guy. Oh yeah - I'm very familiar with that paper. Like you' I have an oddly shaped room with strange nooks and crannies. I have 12 different boundaries in the room, if you count the floor and ceiling. With 1 sub, careful placement, and room EQ, I was able to get a great response in my main seat, a good response in the secondary seat, but a huge null in the 3rd seat around 50hz. With two subs, the problem goes away completely. |
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Post by thezone on Sept 1, 2020 5:32:00 GMT -5
Does anyone actually own one of these? They look great and I'm considering one but there is very limited first hand use/reviews of them on line.
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Post by JKCashin on Sept 1, 2020 16:33:43 GMT -5
Does anyone actually own one of these? They look great and I'm considering one but there is very limited first hand use/reviews of them on line. Bump for same question |
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Post by thezone on Sept 2, 2020 1:54:45 GMT -5
I found this thread with your Poll where most people have opted for the SVS-SB 3000 however this seems to be mainly because 1)it has a phone app and 2)in the US it a lot cheaper than the RS13. 3)None of the people that voted for the SVS have actually heard the RS13. I live in Australia and 1) like you I don't care about the phone app (gimick) 2) Id rather have a balanced input given that's what the XMC-2 puts out and 3) Where I live the SVS-SB 3000 is actually more expensive than the RS13 they both retail over Aud$2,800! 4) The SVS SB4000 is $4k in oz! What's not to like about these? HDF! Does anyone else make a sub using this? That would have to add significant control to the driver. And that ultra flat frequency response. Why has nobody bought one? |
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