Emotiva pulls out of Axpona

[klinemj]

Mar 10, 2020 12:10:50 GMT -5 KeithL said:

I would advise being very careful about generalizing the WHO information to the US.

For example, the WHO considers hand sanitizer important...

However, if you read the fine print, they say that simply washing your hands is far more effective...

(So hand sanitizer is only really important in countries where there is limited access to clean water to wash your hands... which actually describes lots of places.)

The simple reality is that, when you have a highly contagious disease, which many people can catch and spread without ever having any symptoms, exposure is almost inevitable.

Even with all we know about the Flu, and how well reported it is, the estimates of the number of people who catch it, and who die from it, are always stated with a range of around 2:1 ("between 20k and 40k").

With a disease like CoVid-19, which is very contagious, and which many people will have without ever knowing it, there is no idea how far it has already spread, and it seems unlikely that it can actually be stopped.

The actual numbers are virtually unknown... because very few people who don't show symptoms are actually tested... and apparently many people don't show symptoms.

(The latest guess is that it may have been "circulating" in Washington for quite some time before anyone even noticed.)

However, because it is so contagious, the best we can hope for is limit exposure as much as possible... thereby reducing the number of serious cases that occur all at once... and reducing the strain on health care and the economy.

Mar 10, 2020 9:58:11 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Another thing to consider is the mortality rate and preventability of the flu vs. COVID-19.

The % of people dying from the flu is ~0.1% "all in" from 2019's full data. It's ~4% for COVID-19 based on the cumulative data (China, Europe, Korea, middle east, US, etc.).

Net, if you get COVID-19, the chances of a bad outcome are 40x higher than for the flu (worse if you are older and/or have respiratory issues to start with).

And, COVID-19 is just starting in the US. If it were to spread to the same # of people who got the flu in the past year, there would be 1,750,000 US deaths.

Net, it's much more important to prevent COVID-19's spread than it is the flu. That's why we're seeing the concerns and cancelling of large events that put people in close contact and require travel from various places - no need to help the virus travel!

And lastly, there's a vaccine for the flu...not yet for COVID-19.

So, all-in-all, it's worth being cautious and following the WHO's and CDC's reco's. The latest one I just read what that COVID-19 can survive 7-9 days on surfaces...like, countertops, sinks, toilets, etc. So, in addition to handwashing, they are recommending sterilizing surfaces routinely. (And, all the other steps in the WHO report I shared).

Mark

I cross-checked data from WHO with what I could find from the CDC and other national health sites...it all supports the point I made about it being much more deadly than the flu. It's also supporting that for each person infected with COVID-19, it's being spread to at least as many others and up to 3-4x more. Net, more deadly with ability to spread more rapidly.

Thus, important to take containment steps.

Mark

[Jack]

The coronavirus has a lipid outer coating, which soap will dissolve better that an alcohol based hand sanitizer. Soap and water are the best!

[IronPigsDigs]

Mar 10, 2020 5:03:59 GMT -5 thompson12 said:

Mar 9, 2020 22:56:43 GMT -5 IronPigsDigs said:

Awesome!

If we ever meet I hope you keep your greetings to yourself.

Mitch

OK. Me too.

[gus4emo]

Mar 7, 2020 12:38:54 GMT -5 RichGuy said:

Maybe everyone should just cancel everything people need to drive to because the odds of someone being killed by a car accident are astounding compared to the odds of the coronavirus.

I mean be safe everyone, use common sense and be careful of spreading diseases but this coronavirus panic that is spreading is getting out of control.

• Normal flu deaths approx. 46,000 per year in the USA
  
  
• Car accidents deaths approx. 1.2 million each year in the USA
  
• Coronavirus deaths currently I think the last count is 17 in the USA, being broadcast continuously by every news station and updated by the minute if someone new should die or become sick.
  

Be safe.... but stop the ridiculous panic. Can you imagine the news updating the death count every time someone in the US was killed in a traffic accident the way it's being done with the coronavirus. The other news stories would be about the shortage of safety helmets, shortage of full safety harnesses, people lining up to have custom roll cages installed in their cars, the demand for safer cars and safer streets, people afraid to leave home or afraid to drive to work (or anywhere) and of course protestors at every car lot and people demanding for cars to be banned.

Car accidents don't spread, diseases do, just saying...

[KeithL]

Quite so... but...

We all know that there are situations where you are far more likely to get in a car accident...

For example, for many of us, we would be far safer if we left for work an hour earlier, and so avoided rush hour...

Not to mention the fact that, by leaving an hour earlier, you could drive much more carefully, since you wouldn't be in a hurry...

Yet I don't hear anyone suggesting that "leaving a half hour early every day is a worthwhile precaution.

I agree that it makes sense to avoid large gatherings or crowds if you can reasonably do so...

And, yes, you should be a bit more careful to wash your hands more often, and avoid people who are coughing...

And, yes, most major trade shows and many sporting events are being cancelled...

And you're probably at least somewhat safer not attending any of them...

And ship cruises are notoriously places where people get or catch various contagious illnesses...

But we also all need to maintain a healthy perspective...

What we have here is a disease that spreads very easily.. and that is true in part because many people catch it but never even get significantly sick...

And, if you read all the reports, mostly only sick people, or people directly exposed to very sick people, have been tested.

Because of that, we don't actually know how many people have it, and there's no reliable way to avoid people who do.

And also, because of that, we have no idea how deadly it is (because we don't know how many people caught it, and got over it, and never even knew they had it.)

All the statistics we have about people who died come from the minority who got sick enough to know they had it.

Also, notably, it seems that almost everyone whose source was known caught it directly from other people, and NOT from a dirty surface...

I should also point out that, even if you or I were to be tested today, and found to be "negative"...

That in no way would protect us from catching it tomorrow...

And, to be quite blunt, the odds that we will ever test everyone in the whole country are slim to none.

Personally, I am most interested to see what happens when we do develop a vaccine for CoVid-19 - which will inevitably happen.

I absolutely hope that, after classifying CoVid-91 as "a pandemic", we REQUIRE everyone to take the vaccine when it becomes available.

Perhaps it will provide the necessary incentive to classify "anti-vaxxers" as "national health risks".
I guess we'll all see on that one.

Many people have pointed out that we have a vaccine for the Flu... (and that is a major difference).

However, don't overlook the fact that many people don't take the Flu vaccine, and the Flu vaccine does not protect us from all strains of the Flu.

(And there are plenty of people who don't take the Flu vaccine to discuss things like mortality rate for the Flu.)

Also... on the subject of "fine print".....

This is a VERY interesting read from the WHO...

(be sure to read it to the end)

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/#who-report-02-20

For example, as of Feb 28....

- the mortality rate of CoVid-19 in Wuhan, China was 5.8%

- but the mortality rate in other areas of China was only 0.7% on average

Which goes to show how open to interpretation the current numbers really are...

For example, they pointed out that the risk of death for elderly folks with pneumonia is quite high...

(regardless of whether it was caused by CoVid-19 or something else)...

Mar 10, 2020 15:03:28 GMT -5 gus4emo said:

Mar 7, 2020 12:38:54 GMT -5 RichGuy said:

Maybe everyone should just cancel everything people need to drive to because the odds of someone being killed by a car accident are astounding compared to the odds of the coronavirus.

I mean be safe everyone, use common sense and be careful of spreading diseases but this coronavirus panic that is spreading is getting out of control.

• Normal flu deaths approx. 46,000 per year in the USA
  
  
• Car accidents deaths approx. 1.2 million each year in the USA
  
• Coronavirus deaths currently I think the last count is 17 in the USA, being broadcast continuously by every news station and updated by the minute if someone new should die or become sick.
  

Be safe.... but stop the ridiculous panic. Can you imagine the news updating the death count every time someone in the US was killed in a traffic accident the way it's being done with the coronavirus. The other news stories would be about the shortage of safety helmets, shortage of full safety harnesses, people lining up to have custom roll cages installed in their cars, the demand for safer cars and safer streets, people afraid to leave home or afraid to drive to work (or anywhere) and of course protestors at every car lot and people demanding for cars to be banned.

Car accidents don't spread, diseases do, just saying...

[gus4emo]

Mar 11, 2020 10:24:44 GMT -5 KeithL said:

Quite so... but...

We all know that there are situations where you are far more likely to get in a car accident...

For example, for many of us, we would be far safer if we left for work an hour earlier, and so avoided rush hour...

Not to mention the fact that, by leaving an hour earlier, you could drive much more carefully, since you wouldn't be in a hurry...

Yet I don't hear anyone suggesting that "leaving a half hour early every day is a worthwhile precaution.

I agree that it makes sense to avoid large gatherings or crowds if you can reasonably do so...

And, yes, you should be a bit more careful to wash your hands more often, and avoid people who are coughing...

And, yes, most major trade shows and many sporting events are being cancelled...

And you're probably at least somewhat safer not attending any of them...

And ship cruises are notoriously places where people get or catch various contagious illnesses...

But we also all need to maintain a healthy perspective...

What we have here is a disease that spreads very easily.. and that is true in part because many people catch it but never even get significantly sick...

And, if you read all the reports, mostly only sick people, or people directly exposed to very sick people, have been tested.

Because of that, we don't actually know how many people have it, and there's no reliable way to avoid people who do.

And also, because of that, we have no idea how deadly it is (because we don't know how many people caught it, and got over it, and never even knew they had it.)

All the statistics we have about people who died come from the minority who got sick enough to know they had it.

Also, notably, it seems that almost everyone whose source was known caught it directly from other people, and NOT from a dirty surface...

I should also point out that, even if you or I were to be tested today, and found to be "negative"...

That in no way would protect us from catching it tomorrow...

And, to be quite blunt, the odds that we will ever test everyone in the whole country are slim to none.

Personally, I am most interested to see what happens when we do develop a vaccine for CoVid-19 - which will inevitably happen.

I absolutely hope that, after classifying CoVid-91 as "a pandemic", we REQUIRE everyone to take the vaccine when it becomes available.

Perhaps it will provide the necessary incentive to classify "anti-vaxxers" as "national health risks".
I guess we'll all see on that one.

Many people have pointed out that we have a vaccine for the Flu... (and that is a major difference).

However, don't overlook the fact that many people don't take the Flu vaccine, and the Flu vaccine does not protect us from all strains of the Flu.

(And there are plenty of people who don't take the Flu vaccine to discuss things like mortality rate for the Flu.)

Also... on the subject of "fine print".....

This is a VERY interesting read from the WHO...

(be sure to read it to the end)

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/#who-report-02-20

For example, as of Feb 28....

- the mortality rate of CoVid-19 in Wuhan, China was 5.8%

- but the mortality rate in other areas of China was only 0.7% on average

Which goes to show how open to interpretation the current numbers really are...

For example, they pointed out that the risk of death for elderly folks with pneumonia is quite high...

(regardless of whether it was caused by CoVid-19 or something else)...

Mar 10, 2020 15:03:28 GMT -5 gus4emo said:

Car accidents don't spread, diseases do, just saying...

I understand what you mean, we can drive carefully, but at the same time have to watch other drivers, and thinking about it, I don't think it's going to be like the government is going to tell people to stay home because of too many car accidents, again just saying....

[gentlejax]

wow this was one topic that went way south and never came back around. Funny looking at responses to C19 in March and here it is Sept. lots of opionions but 1 thing was /is for sure ...lots of bullshit lying going on ...in my state its already been proven that the numbers were not true and yet the gov of our state is milking this to death for his political future and to hell with the state and the people. Day after hurricane and he was all about c19 and not worried about people with no electricity and running water.

c19 taught a lot of people to be cleaner but it also showed a lot of ignorance.

[leonski]

Sept 8, 2020 20:16:05 GMT -5 gentlejax said:

wow this was one topic that went way south and never came back around. Funny looking at responses to C19 in March and here it is Sept. lots of opionions but 1 thing was /is for sure ...lots of bullshit lying going on ...in my state its already been proven that the numbers were not true and yet the gov of our state is milking this to death for his political future and to hell with the state and the people. Day after hurricane and he was all about c19 and not worried about people with no electricity and running water.

c19 taught a lot of people to be cleaner but it also showed a lot of ignorance.

Even 2 months later, things have changed again.    Rates of infection appear to be going UP.     But while the news may mention of number of new infections, that is based on LOTS of tests.   I think the positive
rate is running maybe 4% or so?   Please correct me if I'm wrong.   

I think most persons are 'holding their breath' waiting for a vaccine which won't do a LOT of good until the 'take rate' is maybe 70% or so.....The so-called 'herd immunity' level.   

Ca Gov Newsom recently had a Uber Expensive lunch indoors while admonishing everyone to continue mask wear.    

coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states

Data from Johns Hopkins........I'd call this GOOD data....not politicized or 'iffy'.....

[housetech]

Everything today is politics centered, even science, which is bs. Always follow the money!
3 close friends, sister-in-law, 1 neighbor and my dentist & wife had the China plague, all 60 or older.
The cure: Vitamins C D Zinc & Hydroxychloroquine or Quercetin Bromelain, per my doctor, oh ya he (65 y.o) had it also.
If you have an underlying condition, it's a different story.
I choose to be cautious and live life.

[butchgo]

Mar 7, 2020 12:38:54 GMT -5 RichGuy said:

Maybe everyone should just cancel everything people need to drive to because the odds of someone being killed by a car accident are astounding compared to the odds of the coronavirus.

I mean be safe everyone, use common sense and be careful of spreading diseases but this coronavirus panic that is spreading is getting out of control.

• Normal flu deaths approx. 46,000 per year in the USA
  
  
• Car accidents deaths approx. 1.2 million each year in the USA
  
• Coronavirus deaths currently I think the last count is 17 in the USA, being broadcast continuously by every news station and updated by the minute if someone new should die or become sick.
  

Be safe.... but stop the ridiculous panic. Can you imagine the news updating the death count every time someone in the US was killed in a traffic accident the way it's being done with the coronavirus. The other news stories would be about the shortage of safety helmets, shortage of full safety harnesses, people lining up to have custom roll cages installed in their cars, the demand for safer cars and safer streets, people afraid to leave home or afraid to drive to work (or anywhere) and of course protestors at every car lot and people demanding for cars to be banned.

I am not sure where you are getting your information but there have been over 250,000 deaths in the US, not 17!!!!!

[Boomzilla]

Skirting the thin ice of political discussion in this thread - caution!