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Post by ttocs on Apr 30, 2020 3:42:25 GMT -5
For the sake of this discussion, let's assume two mono amps are better than one stereo amp. Full disclosure, I'm a monoblock fan.
If monoblock amps are so good, why not monoblock preamps?
If we take the left and right outputs from a turntable and keep them separated for the rest of the chain, wouldn't this provide a better listening experience? So we'd have dual phono stages, dual line stages, and dual amps.
Yes, there would be two volume controls, but you could wrap a rubber band around both so one would turn the other. The oxygen free rubber has the best sonics.
Seriously, other than two volume controls, wouldn't dual everything be simply the best signal path? The closest thing to crosstalk would be the close proximity of the wires within the turntable.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 30, 2020 5:43:54 GMT -5
Well I haven't found a monoblock preamp but i have listened to this. And what a great time that was. This is the Audio GD HE-1. (note it works with Krell CAST systems as well).   This unit has completely separated signal paths for the left and right channel. But here's where it gets very close to meeting the defintion of a monoblock preamp. It has two power transformers - one for the left and one for the right. This means each channel has its own power supply like a monoblock amp does. It also has a regenerative class A power supply upstream of the two transformers which regenerates the power for the transformers. The only thing stopping it from being considered a monoblock preamp is that each transformer share a common power source (the power plug). Audio GD halso has a BALANCED TUBE version of this dual mono preamp too called the Vacuum HE-1. Which, if I survive current events, I plan to listen to   Pass Labs has an XP-30 which is also a dual mono preamp with dual power supplies. In this case the power supplies are in a separate chassis and each channel is also in a separate chassis.  |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Apr 30, 2020 6:05:12 GMT -5
For the sake of this discussion, let's assume two mono amps are better than one stereo amp. Full disclosure, I'm a monoblock fan. If monoblock amps are so good, why not monoblock preamps? If we take the left and right outputs from a turntable and keep them separated for the rest of the chain, wouldn't this provide a better listening experience? So we'd have dual phono stages, dual line stages, and dual amps. Yes, there would be two volume controls, but you could wrap a rubber band around both so one would turn the other. The oxygen free rubber has the best sonics. Seriously, other than two volume controls, wouldn't dual everything be simply the best signal path? The closest thing to crosstalk would be the close proximity of the wires within the turntable. I think you’re right, only cost and convenience would suffer. I remember selling a preamp back in the late 70’s, Audible Illusions maybe. Very reasonably priced tube preamp, don’t think it was truly mono circuitry, but it did have two volume controls, and I did try a rubber band (it was hard to find ‘OFR’ back then). Sounded great for the price, but the two controls were a pain, and it’s bigger brother (about twice the price) sounded even better and only had a single volume control. |
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Post by Cogito on Apr 30, 2020 8:23:45 GMT -5
Other than theoretical reasons, I doubt there would be any audible benefit in doing so. However... The cost would certainly go up due to needing two enclosures, two power supplies, etc.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Apr 30, 2020 9:59:58 GMT -5
Level matching would be a constant struggle.
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 30, 2020 10:05:02 GMT -5
Half the fun of this sport is making things more complicated than they need to be.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Apr 30, 2020 10:08:30 GMT -5
Half the fun of this sport is making things more complicated than they need to be. If you are that sort of masochist, yes I suppose it could be fun. Me, I prefer simple. |
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 30, 2020 10:18:01 GMT -5
Half the fun of this sport is making things more complicated than they need to be. If you are that sort of masochist, yes I suppose it could be fun. Me, I prefer simple. Oops 😬 I had better rephrase. What I meant to say......(was) half the fun of this sport is MAKING FUN of things more complicated than they need to be. Now I need more coffee! |
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Post by vcautokid on Apr 30, 2020 10:24:59 GMT -5
Firstly the average Joe would never know the difference, and most so called "Audiophile" would have a rough time quantifying why Mono is the way to go. The technicals speak for themselves. Crosstalk and blah blah blah and all that Keith-ner-ese. You know. I have always fought for Monoblocks for not only their performance but times the custom solution where stereo just wasn't going to cut it. But yeah, Mono block is king for sure technically from start to finish. Now how do you have a duo mono source with separate discrete everything too if you are singing the Monoblock way. I know Novisnick just fainted. . Come on love to the Novisnick. Monoblock and fully balanced and full differential is how it is done. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Apr 30, 2020 11:35:50 GMT -5
Level matching would be a constant struggle. I have a friend who built a Pass Labs kit preamp and it had separate left/right volume knobs. I always thought that was a pain. I think it was the B1 buffer preamp. Mark |
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Post by mgbpuff on Apr 30, 2020 11:49:27 GMT -5
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Post by mgbpuff on Apr 30, 2020 12:06:25 GMT -5
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Apr 30, 2020 12:18:06 GMT -5
And, just to stir crap, whoever said that mono amps and always "better" is wrong. It is entirely possible (and indeed available) to build a stereo amp with better specs than two mono amps. Discuss amongst yourselves.  |
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Post by ttocs on Apr 30, 2020 12:25:27 GMT -5
^^^^^^
Yup. Nothing is always "always".
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Post by pedrocols on Apr 30, 2020 13:00:30 GMT -5
Level matching would be a constant struggle. I have a friend who built a Pass Labs kit preamp and it had separate left/right volume knobs. I always thought that was a pain. I think it was the B1 buffer preamp. Mark I built one of those preamps which I currently use with a passive preamp and after getting up my couch 100 times I rewired the damn think and eliminated one of the volume pots. Very challenging to match the two channels. |
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Post by creimes on Apr 30, 2020 13:51:54 GMT -5
I'm still in the camp of any Monoblocks I have owned have not been superior to my multichannel amps, YMMV  |
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Post by monkumonku on Apr 30, 2020 14:27:23 GMT -5
If you are that sort of masochist, yes I suppose it could be fun. Me, I prefer simple. Half the fun of this sport is making things more complicated than they need to be. Oops 😬 I had better rephrase. What I meant to say......(was) half the fun of this sport is MAKING FUN of things more complicated than they need to be. Now I need more coffee! After reading countless posts in this and other audio forums, I'd have to say you had it right the first time! |
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 30, 2020 15:08:57 GMT -5
Oops 😬 I had better rephrase. What I meant to say......(was) half the fun of this sport is MAKING FUN of things more complicated than they need to be. Now I need more coffee! After reading countless posts in this and other audio forums, I'd have to say you had it right the first time! Ya know what.....(I think 🤔 I had it right BOTH times! 🤣🙃 |
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 30, 2020 15:23:55 GMT -5
I'm still in the camp of any Monoblocks I have owned have not been superior to my multichannel amps, YMMV I’m having the same superior results with a multichannel amp. as opposed to my bridged monoblocks of years ago. That being said, the two rigs are sooo different it’s a tough chore to compare the two fairly. I had no powered subwoofer integration back then, which accounts for a lot of the horsepower. Bill |
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Post by creimes on Apr 30, 2020 19:30:49 GMT -5
I'm still in the camp of any Monoblocks I have owned have not been superior to my multichannel amps, YMMV I’m having the same superior results with a multichannel amp. as opposed to my bridged monoblocks of years ago. That being said, the two rigs are sooo different it’s a tough chore to compare the two fairly. I had no powered subwoofer integration back then, which accounts for a lot of the horsepower. Bill Call it Audioidiotcy but when I owned both the XPA-1L and XPA-5 Gen2 I could not tell one apart from the other, let the hazing begin haha. Chad |
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