The Best Setup I Can Have-For Now

[jh714]

Dear Keith....did you know Abby? Kidding!
I would like your suggestions and thoughts on anything I can do to make system better without replacing anymore major components.
My goal here is a Dolby Atmos/DTS:X Sound Stage with the best video I can get using my existing TV. As you can see below, I have a Pioneer Elite Kuro Plasma TV. This unit was the top rated Flat Screen at the time; head and shoulders over everything else. I believe that I purchased one of the very last units available. As far as I'm concerned, this TV is still one of the best. Ultimately, I have no plans to replace it until it dies. So there's that!
Now I just received my return ticket for my XMC-1, which means my XMC-2 is almost ready! I also have a Panasonic DP-UB820 on the way. Not listed; I have recently received a pair of A1's. I am waiting for the opportunity to purchase another pair of A1's. I will use the Denon and B&K to power the A1's. This will leave me with a 7.2.4 system. I also have the latest Roku which will stream 4K and Atmos.
Thoughts....
Thank you for your time. Jon

[HDSapper]

Jon,

Just a quick note. Nice components, just too bad that technology marches on. I'm sure you already realize, but until that sad day when you retire the Kuro, having 4K sources (UHD Blu-ray and Roku) won't give you any better picture than the 1080P you're already getting. Now Atmos plans should still be doable. Good luck and enjoy.

[jh714]

But,but,but………but!

[SteveH]

May 7, 2020 12:59:29 GMT -5 HDSapper said:

Jon,

Just a quick note. Nice components, just too bad that technology marches on. I'm sure you already realize, but until that sad day when you retire the Kuro, having 4K sources (UHD Blu-ray and Roku) won't give you any better picture than the 1080P you're already getting. Now Atmos plans should still be doable. Good luck and enjoy.

I totally agree.  In 2018 I upgrade my audio from 1992 5.1 to 7.2.4 and kept the 2009 1080p.  In February 2020, I upgraded that 2009 1080p to a 2019 4K, you will most definitely be missing out on the visual pleasures.  I have great movie theater sound, but now it sounds even better with the 4K visual.  Just a side note, I have never heard anyone complain that their TV is too big 

[vcautokid]

I think most people get diluted by the 4K deal and don't really understand why you are getting it. I use a 4K monitor but most of my sources rarely exceed 1080p. My TV does some trickery and scales to 4K. I sold the Pioneer Elite Product line for some time. All through the heyday times when it meant something to get an Elite. The Kuro was one I could not keep in stock. It sold like crazy. The picture was and still is excellent. It is old technology, but so what? Yeah use it till it dies. Properly ensure the settings are correct on it, and feed clean power to it, and enjoy it. Your best source for video will be the BluRay disc. It has the least compression and offers the best sound and picture your money can buy. No streaming service will come close. Oppo Bluray players have been leading the way for years. Sony, Panasonic and so on do a good job too. I don't think you need to spend the moon to get where you want to go. You have mostly answered your own questions anyway by processing and explaining your desire and expectations. Most of us never really "need" to do anything major. It is a choice by emotion, and desire for more. You can get to where you want for much less than you think. Start and end with the best video source you can feed your displays and call it done!

[sockemdog]

May 21, 2020 23:28:36 GMT -5 vcautokid said:

I think most people get diluted by the 4K deal and don't really understand why you are getting it. I use a 4K monitor but most of my sources rarely exceed 1080p. My TV does some trickery and scales to 4K. I sold the Pioneer Elite Product line for some time. All through the heyday times when it meant something to get an Elite. The Kuro was one I could not keep in stock. It sold like crazy. The picture was and still is excellent. It is old technology, but so what? Yeah use it till it dies. Properly ensure the settings are correct on it, and feed clean power to it, and enjoy it. Your best source for video will be the BluRay disc. It has the least compression and offers the best sound and picture your money can buy. No streaming service will come close. Oppo Bluray players have been leading the way for years. Sony, Panasonic and so on do a good job too. I don't think you need to spend the moon to get where you want to go. You have mostly answered your own questions anyway by processing and explaining your desire and expectations. Most of us never really "need" to do anything major. It is a choice by emotion, and desire for more. You can get to where you want for much less than you think. Start and end with the best video source you can feed your displays and call it done!

I’m still using a 2008 model 50” 720p Kuro plasma in my den. Wonderful picture after all these years. 

Brad

[vcautokid]

Technology will age no doubt about it. But if you still love all that is does, it is new to you everyday. Most folks don't make the connection. I went from a 2019 camera to a 2014 camera for superior results in my workflow. That along with my Smartphone, I get what I want. Older and wise is better than Newer and just average. I will never be afraid to share with someone you have something special. Leave it alone and enjoy it! The Kuro is one of those products. I made many people happy with the Kuro. Still hear from them time to time.

[sockemdog]

May 22, 2020 7:53:37 GMT -5 vcautokid said:

Technology will age no doubt about it. But if you still love all that is does, it is new to you everyday. Most folks don't make the connection. I went from a 2019 camera to a 2014 camera for superior results in my workflow. That along with my Smartphone, I get what I want. Older and wise is better than Newer and just average. I will never be afraid to share with someone you have something special. Leave it alone and enjoy it! The Kuro is one of those products. I made many people happy with the Kuro. Still here from them time to time.

At the time I was debating between it (a 720p model) and a 1080p Panasonic for the same $$.  I was happy I chose the Kuro even if it was a lower resolution panel.  The color richness and depth was captivating... along with so much detail in the blacks.  Uncanny for back then.  Appreciate you being an ambassador for Pioneer back then.  I miss those kind of stores.  Tweeter in Greenville, SC was where I bought it.  Not many places left to stop by and drool.

Brad

[Pioneer]

I bought my KRP500M Kuro monitor in 2009 and I am still watching it. The picture is still amazing. I also followed the Pioneer plasma TVs as they progressed and I'm not sure but I do believe that by 2008 all of the Pioneer plasma TVs were 1080P. The attached link is the Pioneer TV models for 2008.


www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/ch.Plasma.Support

[vcautokid]

May 22, 2020 8:16:19 GMT -5 sockemdog said:

May 22, 2020 7:53:37 GMT -5 vcautokid said:

Technology will age no doubt about it. But if you still love all that is does, it is new to you everyday. Most folks don't make the connection. I went from a 2019 camera to a 2014 camera for superior results in my workflow. That along with my Smartphone, I get what I want. Older and wise is better than Newer and just average. I will never be afraid to share with someone you have something special. Leave it alone and enjoy it! The Kuro is one of those products. I made many people happy with the Kuro. Still here from them time to time.

At the time I was debating between it (a 720p model) and a 1080p Panasonic for the same $$.  I was happy I chose the Kuro even if it was a lower resolution panel.  The color richness and depth was captivating... along with so much detail in the blacks.  Uncanny for back then.  Appreciate you being an ambassador for Pioneer back then.  I miss those kind of stores.  Tweeter in Greenville, SC was where I bought it.  Not many places left to stop by and drool.

Brad

You are so right. I called them the Candy Store. My favorite places to go to see special gosh I really want that. That fun is rapidly going away. It is much harder to dream and get the warm and fuzzies when you see that one component or technology, and it just connects with you. I loved selling in places like that, and miss it very much. The best, and some of the most reachable greats were there too. Actually I had more fun selling greats that more folks could enjoy, then the one or two unobtainium I sold. It is about balance and perspective. It frequently gets warped in our hobby. I had been doing this a very very long time. I will always love the technology, but the special Candy Store like vibe. I will miss that, and I am grateful I got to be a part of it. Cheers.

[Deleted]

This thread caught my attention.  New products are not necessarily always better than some older ones.  Many folks concentrate on a single spec from an overly pushy sales person or a overenthusiastic newbie or even incorrect printed or online info.   How many watts? ..... What is the resolution? ..... How many megapixels? ..... and on and on.  There are many factors that determine the actual picture or sound quality.  I do even at my advanced age still have excellent hearing and good vision.  I frequently visit audio/video stores for fun.  I haven't for a long time witnessed any TV's that have convinced me to upgrade.  My story:

In the master bedroom we have an 84lb 16 year old JVC PD-42V485 42" 480P plasma (Video Only).  Oh, it must look bad versus a 720P, 10180P or 4K right?  IMO the picture with good HD TV signals (our only use) it is excellent!  No exaggeration.  I many times watch sports game in this upstairs bedroom while the boss is in the living room watching some Japanese soap opera.  I am very picky and quite satisfied with the very clear and natural picture.  I can clearly see the lice and fleas in the beard of Jack Dorsey/Twitter CEO.



In the living room we have an 87lb 12 year old Panasonic TH-C50 FD18 50" 1080P plasma (Costco of course), plus Oppo BDP-83.  In the same week I brought home a 768P Panny (same series) and an equivalent 1080P Pioneer Kuro.  I set them up all upside by side and quickly eliminated the 720P.  It was impressive but not as good as the Panny 1080P.  The Panny and the Kuro were so very close in picture quality that I went with the considerably cheaper Costco Panny.  This Panny is still so outstanding that the 4K I have spent lots of time watching in store dark rooms don't tempt me.  The Panny picture is so natural.  Go outside on a bright day (no sun) and look at the trees and corners of buildings.  Does your set make the trees on your TV programs or movies look slightly over-pixelated or unnatural?  Or do the corners on buildings look unnaturally sharp or over-pixelated?  Does your TV look color over-saturated?  Not on the Panny plasma.  This is one of the reasons I have never gone for non-plasma TV's such as LED, LCD or OLED.  Our room is always quite dark when TV viewing, with plenty of brightness on the plasma.  With the Panny I can see the warts on the lice and fleas in Jacks beard. 

End of story.     
                  

[mgbpuff]

You have a great system. Go have your eyesight and hearing checked, just in case. Your plazma tv has a 30 year lifespan. Let us know in 31 years.

[bootman]

You are only missing out on good HDR/Dolby Vision performance.
This to me made the biggest difference (when done right) vs going from 1080p to 4K.

[KeithL]

It should be pretty obvious with video, even more than with audio, that different things matter to different people.

Many folks in the industry agree that, to most people, HDR makes a more obvious difference than going from 1080p to 4k.

If you follow the history you will find that 4k appeared before HDR...

It also seems that HDR was released very soon after 4k...

(Arguably, "normally" HDR would have been released a few years after 4k, but....

              "HDR was released sooner than planned because 4k alone didn't impress people enough".)

There are also many folks, especially sports fans, who find higher frame rates to make a big difference.

(But, of course, if you watch a lot of movies filmed on actual film, which are done at 24 frames per second, it won't matter at all.)

The reality is that each particular technology brings different benefits...

A higher frame rate gives you smoother motion.

This can be significant with fast moving sports events or games.

But it usually doesn't matter much with cinematic movies - especially older ones.

HDR offers the ABILITY to display a wider range of contrast and color.

This means that really bright and really dark scenes can appear more realistic (or easier to make out).

It also means that certain very saturated colors display better.

It also potentially reduces "banding" in both color and B&W scenes with gradual gradations of brightness or color.

HOWEVER, the down-side is that many movies filmed in HDR, or reprocessed into HDR, can appear garish and overly bright or "cartoony".

(Have you noticed that people rarely discuss how accurate those "brilliant HDR colors" actually are?)

(Many standard color calibration discs don't even include attempting to calibrate the various HDR color spaces.)

And you can also argue whether having a scene look so realistic that you need sunglasses to watch the desert scenes is a good thing or not.

Likewise, 4k offers the potential so see an impressive amount of detail, but only if your eyes are up to it, and only if that detail is really there.

I often joke that "with 1080p you can actually see the newscaster's nose hairs; with 4k you can see the color of his nose hairs"...

And now I add "and with 8k you'll be able to see if his nose hairs are dyed or their natural color"...

On a well filmed scene 4k adds a significant amount of extra detail over 1080p...

But 4k also makes it easier to see bad makeup, and bad edits, and where the matt-painted background really doesn't match quite right...

(And a well lit and filmed 1080p scene will look better than a not-so-well-filmed 4k scene anyway.)

If you want to see where 4k looks obviously better than HD....

Look for specular highlights (those little blinding pinpoints of light you get when someone throws a handful of glitter into a spotlight)...

Or look for the detail in a scene where someone in a hounds-tooth suit walks behind a chain link fence outdoors at high noon...

Or look at any scene that features bright sunlight glaring off waves on water...

Or any scene with shiny or sparkly bits of glass or metal...

You'll see that metal and water often look much more "real" in 4k...

But, in a closeup of someone's face, not so much (or the extra detail may actually seem more annoying that useful).

And, in a landscape scene with lots of foliage, 4k may just make it easier to see how the camera fell short of seeing every leaf and twig...

The bottom line is that you need to be aware of the particular things that matter the most TO YOU...

And choose your technology accordingly...

(You're probably not buying a display because it looks good to someone else.)

[garbulky]

Another thing to note is that 4k allows you a higher bandwith/bit rate on streaming - depending on the service you get. The 4k streaming vs HD streaming on a lot of services are visually different simply because there's a higher bit rate. 4k streaming is much closer in quality to Blu-ray (but not quite) vs HD streaming.