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Post by ttocs on Sept 28, 2020 8:40:29 GMT -5
Getting my XMC-2 today and am confused on how I should setup my system before I run Dirac Live. I currently have a 7.4 system, with all 4 subwoofers in the front. What is the best setup I should use before running Dirac Live? Should I do dual mono, with 2 on the left, and 2 on the right? Or just connect everything together and run mono? What is the LFE channel for? Why would I want to reserve a subwoofer just for a LFE channel? Sorry in advance about all these questions. 60% movies 40% music If you run them as mono, please note how the processor is "supposed" to work. When Left/Right Subs is set to Mono, only the Left output is "supposed" to be active, but Dirac sees the Right Sub also - which is not supposed to happen. So if you use Left/Right Subs, set them to Dual Mono to use both outputs. I use only the Center Sub output set to LFE for my three subs. This sends all LFE to the Center Sub output. Bass Management is then sent to my Fronts set to Large. LFE is the Low Frequency Effects channel. LFE is only output to subwoofers, never to speakers. If there is no subwoofer, then there will be no LFE. The LFE channel is where a lot of booms and rumble sounds comes from. For me, I wouldn't reserve just one sub for LFE. I've got three subs, two 12" and one 10". I currently use all three for LFE. If I were to use subs for LFE and Bass Management, then I would use the two larger subs for LFE and the single smaller one for Bass Management. I am very happy after dedicating subwoofers only for LFE, everything is better.
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Post by Aspen0220 on Sept 28, 2020 9:01:10 GMT -5
I use only the Center Sub output set to LFE for my three subs. This sends all LFE to the Center Sub output. Bass Management is then sent to my Fronts set to Large. LFE is the Low Frequency Effects channel. LFE is only output to subwoofers, never to speakers. If there is no subwoofer, then there will be no LFE. The LFE channel is where a lot of booms and rumble sounds comes from. If I use only the center sub output and set to LFE, does that mean my subwoofers will only be use when watching movies? How about when playing video music from youtube, or any other sources?
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Post by ttocs on Sept 28, 2020 9:10:13 GMT -5
I use only the Center Sub output set to LFE for my three subs. This sends all LFE to the Center Sub output. Bass Management is then sent to my Fronts set to Large. LFE is the Low Frequency Effects channel. LFE is only output to subwoofers, never to speakers. If there is no subwoofer, then there will be no LFE. The LFE channel is where a lot of booms and rumble sounds comes from. If I use only the center sub output and set to LFE, does that mean my subwoofers will only be use when watching movies? How about when playing video music from youtube, or any other sources? If there is LFE content, then that will play on the Center Sub output set to LFE. But LFE is not for normal bass. Do you have Front speakers that are set to Large and are capable of low frequency like 30Hz and lower? If not, then you will want to use at least one sub for Bass Management.
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Post by Aspen0220 on Sept 28, 2020 9:21:34 GMT -5
If I use only the center sub output and set to LFE, does that mean my subwoofers will only be use when watching movies? How about when playing video music from youtube, or any other sources? If there is LFE content, then that will play on the Center Sub output set to LFE. But LFE is not for normal bass. Do you have Front speakers that are set to Large and are capable of low frequency like 30Hz and lower? If not, then you will want to use at least one sub for Bass Management. My speakers are capable of playing low frequency for music but I would also like to use my subs for music. Since my use is 60/40 for movies and music, I guess I should just ignore the LFE route and just use the mono route. If I want to use one input for all of my subs, I should connect everything to the left output correct? What is this issue of Dirac seeing the right output also? I guess that's kind of confused me a bit.
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Post by ttocs on Sept 28, 2020 9:26:18 GMT -5
If there is LFE content, then that will play on the Center Sub output set to LFE. But LFE is not for normal bass. Do you have Front speakers that are set to Large and are capable of low frequency like 30Hz and lower? If not, then you will want to use at least one sub for Bass Management. My speakers are capable of playing low frequency for music but I would also like to use my subs for music. Since my use is 60/40 for movies and music, I guess I should just ignore the LFE route and just use the mono route. If I want to use one input for all of my subs, I should connect everything to the left output correct? What is this issue of Dirac seeing the right output also? I guess that's kind of confused me a bit. The Left/Right Subs set to Mono is broken. Will be fixed in the future. While the output itself works, Dirac will not work unless a speaker is connected to the Right Sub output. Again, it's broken.
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Post by Aspen0220 on Sept 28, 2020 9:42:27 GMT -5
My speakers are capable of playing low frequency for music but I would also like to use my subs for music. Since my use is 60/40 for movies and music, I guess I should just ignore the LFE route and just use the mono route. If I want to use one input for all of my subs, I should connect everything to the left output correct? What is this issue of Dirac seeing the right output also? I guess that's kind of confused me a bit. The Left/Right Subs set to Mono is broken. Will be fixed in the future. While the output itself works, Dirac will not work unless a speaker is connected to the Right Sub output. Again, it's broken. To get around this bug, will any of these solutions work? All current subs connected to the left output. Connect a dummy sub to the right output, with volume set to 0%. or Have 2 subwoofers connected to the right side. Have 2 other ones connected to the left side.
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Post by ttocs on Sept 28, 2020 10:09:54 GMT -5
The Left/Right Subs set to Mono is broken. Will be fixed in the future. While the output itself works, Dirac will not work unless a speaker is connected to the Right Sub output. Again, it's broken. To get around this bug, will any of these solutions work? All current subs connected to the left output. Connect a dummy sub to the right output, with volume set to 0%. or Have 2 subwoofers connected to the right side. Have 2 other ones connected to the left side. As long as something is connected to the Right Sub output and Dirac can hear the sweeps at the correct volume, then it will work.
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Post by marcl on Sept 28, 2020 11:59:35 GMT -5
The Left/Right Subs set to Mono is broken. Will be fixed in the future. While the output itself works, Dirac will not work unless a speaker is connected to the Right Sub output. Again, it's broken. To get around this bug, will any of these solutions work? All current subs connected to the left output. Connect a dummy sub to the right output, with volume set to 0%. or Have 2 subwoofers connected to the right side. Have 2 other ones connected to the left side. Since you have four subs, get two Y cables and connect two subs to the left and two subs to the right. Set the subs to Dual Mono. Of course the better answer is to get a miniDSP, connect all four subs to that, and connect the miniDSP to the Center Sub output set to Mono. This is better for two reasons: you can time-align the four subs to each other in the miniDSP; Dirac will correct the combined output of all four subs and that will be more accurate than having it correct two pairs separately.
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ted29
Minor Hero
Posts: 13
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Post by ted29 on Sept 28, 2020 12:15:25 GMT -5
I 'm thinking to buy a minidsp 2X4(or 2X4HD) or wait for Dirac Bass management multi-subs ....
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Post by Aspen0220 on Sept 28, 2020 12:23:48 GMT -5
Since you have four subs, get two Y cables and connect two subs to the left and two subs to the right. Set the subs to Dual Mono. Of course the better answer is to get a miniDSP, connect all four subs to that, and connect the miniDSP to the Center Sub output set to Mono. This is better for two reasons: you can time-align the four subs to each other in the miniDSP; Dirac will correct the combined output of all four subs and that will be more accurate than having it correct two pairs separately. Wait, are you saying I can just use the center output as mono and dirac will work even with the bug? I thought with the current bug, there has to be something connected to the right output for Dirac Live to work correctly? Also, this is from the XMC-2 manual. It seems like I have to use the left output if I want to use a single connection, while the bug is forcing me to use my right output also. Note: If you plan to connect two subs to the Left Sub and Right Sub outputs, then you must
configure the Left/Right Subs outputs as Dual Mono. If you plan to connect only a single sub
to those outputs, then you MUST connect it to the Left Sub output, and you must configure
the Left/Right Subs as Mono. When Left/Right Subs is set to Mono ONLY the Left Sub output is
active. (This setting is independent from the configuration of the Center Sub output.)
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Post by ttocs on Sept 28, 2020 12:35:17 GMT -5
Since you have four subs, get two Y cables and connect two subs to the left and two subs to the right. Set the subs to Dual Mono. Of course the better answer is to get a miniDSP, connect all four subs to that, and connect the miniDSP to the Center Sub output set to Mono. This is better for two reasons: you can time-align the four subs to each other in the miniDSP; Dirac will correct the combined output of all four subs and that will be more accurate than having it correct two pairs separately. Wait, are you saying I can just use the center output as mono and dirac will work even with the bug? I thought with the current bug, there has to be something connected to the right output for Dirac Live to work correctly? ONLY when using the Left/Right Subs set to Mono is when Dirac will not work because it sees the Right Sub output. Using the Center Sub output is what I do. I have 3 subs connected to miniDSP connected to the Center Sub Output set to LFE, but you can just set that to Mono. Works fine. To recap: It's only the Left/Right Subs set to Mono that causes Dirac to fail when it sees the Right Sub output.
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Post by Aspen0220 on Sept 28, 2020 12:38:43 GMT -5
Wait, are you saying I can just use the center output as mono and dirac will work even with the bug? I thought with the current bug, there has to be something connected to the right output for Dirac Live to work correctly? ONLY when using the Left/Right Subs set to Mono is when Dirac will not work because it sees the Right Sub output. Using the Center Sub output is what I do. I have 3 subs connected to miniDSP connected to the Center Sub Output set to LFE, but you can just set that to Mono. Works fine. To recap: It's only the Left/Right Subs set to Mono that causes Dirac to fail when it sees the Right Sub output. Ahh, thank you so much. I will use the center output as mono. Now I just need the UPS guy to hurry up and deliver my XMC-2.
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Post by Aspen0220 on Sept 28, 2020 15:19:27 GMT -5
Got my dirac kit hook up to XMC-2 and try to follow instruction but I can't seem to enable Dirac Live. Under preset 1 => Dirac Live, it say Not Available. Anybody can point me to the right direction? I do have an IP address on my XMC-2.
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Post by idea53 on Sept 28, 2020 16:24:38 GMT -5
Wait, are you saying I can just use the center output as mono and dirac will work even with the bug? I thought with the current bug, there has to be something connected to the right output for Dirac Live to work correctly? ONLY when using the Left/Right Subs set to Mono is when Dirac will not work because it sees the Right Sub output. Using the Center Sub output is what I do. I have 3 subs connected to miniDSP connected to the Center Sub Output set to LFE, but you can just set that to Mono. Works fine. To recap: It's only the Left/Right Subs set to Mono that causes Dirac to fail when it sees the Right Sub output. I am totally confused. I believed that Dirac Live (standard issue) was treating each sub-channel the same way as every other channel i.e. calculating a filter for each channel within it's set frequency range (within the curtains). And then Emotiva was taking care of the bass managment and directing the different LF-signals according to how it was set up to the connected subs (Main Sub, Left and Right Sub set up as LFE only, Mono, DUal Mono, Enhanced Bass etc.). Is this wrong? I have 3 subs connceted and all set up as Mono plus Enhanced Bass. Dirac seem to treat the right sub as a normal speaker since it outputs pink noise instead of sine sweeps when setting up the levels but when measuring, all channels will use the same sine "chirp" signal. Also when creating filters it seem to work OK and the resulting sound is really good. I know that enhanced bass management (single or multi sub version) by Dirac are options that are still not available for the Emotiva range of processors. But that is another sad story :-) since a lot of other processors have these options already available.
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Post by ttocs on Sept 28, 2020 16:54:49 GMT -5
ONLY when using the Left/Right Subs set to Mono is when Dirac will not work because it sees the Right Sub output. Using the Center Sub output is what I do. I have 3 subs connected to miniDSP connected to the Center Sub Output set to LFE, but you can just set that to Mono. Works fine. To recap: It's only the Left/Right Subs set to Mono that causes Dirac to fail when it sees the Right Sub output. I am totally confused. I believed that Dirac Live (standard issue) was treating each sub-channel the same way as every other channel i.e. calculating a filter for each channel within it's set frequency range (within the curtains). And then Emotiva was taking care of the bass managment and directing the different LF-signals according to how it was set up to the connected subs (Main Sub, Left and Right Sub set up as LFE only, Mono, DUal Mono, Enhanced Bass etc.). Is this wrong? I have 3 subs connceted and all set up as Mono plus Enhanced Bass. Dirac seem to treat the right sub as a normal speaker since it outputs pink noise instead of sine sweeps when setting up the levels but when measuring, all channels will use the same sine "chirp" signal. Also when creating filters it seem to work OK and the resulting sound is really good. I know that enhanced bass management (single or multi sub version) by Dirac are options that are still not available for the Emotiva range of processors. But that is another sad story :-) since a lot of other processors have these options already available. Please turn off everything except for the sub connected to the Right Sub Output and check for sound. When I duplicate the settings you state above I get no sound from that sub. Please let us know the result of your test. I did a test of what happens when Dirac throws pink noise at the Right Sub that shouldn't be visible to Dirac except for faulty code. Yes, Dirac will allow the volume to be adjusted - but does this INCORRECTLY. It's the wrong volume. The measurement sweep is the wrong volume. The result in the filter is wrong. And when all is said and done, the processor won't even allow the sub to produce any sound because it's not active when Left/Right Subs is set to Mono. When the Left/Right Subs setting in the Menu is set to MONO, ONLY the Left Sub is supposed to be active, the Right Sub is NOT supposed to be active. On my processor the Right Sub is definitely NOT active when setup this way. But, and this is important, BUT, Dirac sees the Right Sub - and this is due to faulty code. This is a mistake. When using Enhanced Bass, and the Left/Right Subs setting in the Menu is set to Mono, and I have a subwoofer connected to the Right Sub output, there is no sound in any audio mode.
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Post by benbvan on Sept 28, 2020 19:30:17 GMT -5
Does anyone know why when I pull power directly from the wall (disconnect) to reboot and plug back in 2 minutes later the RMC comes right to life instantly? No booting sequence at all? I found that very strange.
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Post by idea53 on Sept 29, 2020 2:43:12 GMT -5
I am totally confused. I believed that Dirac Live (standard issue) was treating each sub-channel the same way as every other channel i.e. calculating a filter for each channel within it's set frequency range (within the curtains). And then Emotiva was taking care of the bass managment and directing the different LF-signals according to how it was set up to the connected subs (Main Sub, Left and Right Sub set up as LFE only, Mono, DUal Mono, Enhanced Bass etc.). Is this wrong? I have 3 subs connceted and all set up as Mono plus Enhanced Bass. Dirac seem to treat the right sub as a normal speaker since it outputs pink noise instead of sine sweeps when setting up the levels but when measuring, all channels will use the same sine "chirp" signal. Also when creating filters it seem to work OK and the resulting sound is really good. I know that enhanced bass management (single or multi sub version) by Dirac are options that are still not available for the Emotiva range of processors. But that is another sad story :-) since a lot of other processors have these options already available. Please turn off everything except for the sub connected to the Right Sub Output and check for sound. When I duplicate the settings you state above I get no sound from that sub. Please let us know the result of your test. I did a test of what happens when Dirac throws pink noise at the Right Sub that shouldn't be visible to Dirac except for faulty code. Yes, Dirac will allow the volume to be adjusted - but does this INCORRECTLY. It's the wrong volume. The measurement sweep is the wrong volume. The result in the filter is wrong. And when all is said and done, the processor won't even allow the sub to produce any sound because it's not active when Left/Right Subs is set to Mono. When the Left/Right Subs setting in the Menu is set to MONO, ONLY the Left Sub is supposed to be active, the Right Sub is NOT supposed to be active. On my processor the Right Sub is definitely NOT active when setup this way. But, and this is important, BUT, Dirac sees the Right Sub - and this is due to faulty code. This is a mistake. When using Enhanced Bass, and the Left/Right Subs setting in the Menu is set to Mono, and I have a subwoofer connected to the Right Sub output, there is no sound in any audio mode. I will try this but however not today. My right sub is not this important in the setup and also set up to work above 40 Hz (since it is a transmission line that will bottom the element else). But if it is like this that's a HUGE bug in the Bass management.
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Post by ttocs on Sept 29, 2020 7:22:35 GMT -5
Please turn off everything except for the sub connected to the Right Sup this way. But, and this is important, BUT, Dirac sees the Right Sub - and this is due to faulty code. This is a mistake. When using Enhanced Bass, and the Left/Right Subs setting in the Menu is set to Mono, and I have a subwoofer connected to the Right Sub output, there is no sound in any audio mode. I will try this but however not today. My right sub is not this important in the setup and also set up to work above 40 Hz (since it is a transmission line that will bottom the element else). But if it is like this that's a HUGE bug in the Bass management. This has been mentioned numerous times in the Dirac thread. It only affects Dirac. The real bottom line is that you need to change the settings. If you want to use the Right Sub output then that needs to be set to Dural Mono, it's the only way to get output during normal usage from that output with a subwoofer. So basically, you have an extra subwoofer.
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Post by idea53 on Sept 29, 2020 8:58:43 GMT -5
And with dual mono I won't get LFE output through the Left/Reght sub, only the "small speaker" part of the signal. And that is not a good solution for my 3 subs (SVS SB16 main, Sunfire HRS12 Left, Home built TL Right) since they are so different. How on earth could it be like this - a year ago Emotiva was bragging about their excellent bass management and now it stinks. They can not blame it on Dirac since it is Emotiva that is programming their own processors.
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Post by ttocs on Sept 29, 2020 9:09:05 GMT -5
And with dual mono I won't get LFE output through the Left/Reght sub, only the "small speaker" part of the signal. And that is not a good solution for my 3 subs (SVS SB16 main, Sunfire HRS12 Left, Home built TL Right) since they are so different. How on earth could it be like this - a year ago Emotiva was bragging about their excellent bass management and now it stinks. They can not blame it on Dirac since it is Emotiva that is programming their own processors. LFE will ALWAYS be sent to any subwoofer(s) connected to the Left Sub Output set as Mono, or Left and Right Sub Outputs set as Dual Mono, and/or Center Sub Output set as Mono, when the Center Sub is NOT set as LFE. It is only when the Center Sub is set to LFE that no LFE will be sent to Left or Left/Right sub outputs set to Mono or Dual Mono. edit: This LFE setting for the Center Sub Output makes these processors extremely versatile. It allows the choice of what will carry LFE, what will carry Bass Management, and whether the Bass Management will occur in a subwoofer or Front speakers set as Large. Currently I'm running the Center Sub set as LFE which directs Bass Management to my Fronts set as Large. The difference is quite noticeably better.
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