doc1963
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 5,017
Member is Online
|
Post by doc1963 on Feb 8, 2022 11:18:02 GMT -5
And while I live in a US market that has already rolled out ATSC 3.0 (and I already own a native tuner), the 4K feed is not available OTA from our local NBC affiliates which rules out anyone getting to enjoy this in 4K for free. As a Verizon FiOS customer, I have access to 4K UHD content and have watched previous programming that they've offered which has mostly been college "American" football and some scattered NFL games. But thus far (with the exception of a few of the college games that actually used 4K cameras), none of those have compared to the overall quality (both video and audio) of what I watched last night. The color, depth and detail of the figure skaters costumes was simply amazing to watch from a live TV broadcast while Atmos did a great job lending credence to the music and crowd noise. I really enjoyed it...  Thanks doc ; still more prevalent than down here ; we dont even know if the HLG format for wide colour gamut will be used ; I imagine the gen3's will pass it as well as dolby vision is allready. This is the last skerrick of info on a long timeline for fta ; the advent of streaming apps [paramount plus the latest] probably prolonged any new fta infrastructure investment mores the pity  installmyantenna.com.au/blog/4k-resolution-free-to-air-tv-in-australia/#:~:text=4K%20Television%20in%20Australia%20The%20good%20news%20is,TV%20Antenna%2C%20especially%20when%20compared%20to%20internet%20downloads. Actually, the 2022 Winter Olympics are being broadcast using standard HDR-10 which is indeed different from any of the other 4K broadcasts that I've watched in the past. My older LG C6 typically shows the "HLG HDR" popup banner when watching a 4K broadcast, but for these Olympic broadcasts, it's popping up the standard "HDR" banner. Either way, the G3 processors do pass HLG without issues... |
|
|
|
Post by ElectricKoolAid on Feb 8, 2022 12:17:15 GMT -5
Wow, thanks very much for your excellent, thoughtful reply! And very interesting hearing about all these details going on in the background. It's amazing this stuff works at all! I think your first answer may be closest to the truth (the "no win" situation). The reply I got from Emotiva was similar to yours - the RMC-1 doesn't play well with two 4K output sources. He suggested I would need to go to the lowest common denominator - as in 4K/60 HDR (no Dolby Vision) and see if that works. I tried that and still nothing. So I got aggressive and unplugged ALL my sources, reset the RMC-1 and then only plugged the DirecTV back in at 1080i output and still it would NOT work with both outputs being used. As soon as I unplugged the 4K projector and only had my LG CX 4K TV plugged in it worked just fine. Everything works just fine with either one or the other output device plugged in - but not both! So I went ahead and ordered an HD Fury 4K Vertex. Even the Emotiva guy said that might be my only viable solution! As you mentioned, it would be so much better if these two HDMI outputs were independently selectable (and one was off while the other was on). Just for grins I may also try your solution of a Lindy CEC-less adapter. It would be nice if something that simple could fix the issue - because right now I can never use both HDMI outputs at the same time - so it's like built-in uselessness! Anyway, one last question (for now), why would I have to loose my OSD? My plan is to go from one RMC-1 HDMI output -> to the HD Fury Vertex Input -> One Vertex Output to my TV and the other Vertex output to my Projector. And if I understand the instructions correctly I can have the Vertex EDID always look like (come from) my LG TV (which works fine by itself) and so hopefully all the sources would be happy seeing it. The Vertex will even let you turn one of the outputs completely OFF if you want to. Does that make sense? Am I missing something else?Thanks very much!Doug I don't own a Vertex, but have read a TON about them as I felt that "I" was going to need to resort to one myself. They are indeed very flexible and I have no doubt that it will fix your problem. Most users would use a Vertex to completely bypass the HDMI switching system of their AVR/AVP because that's usually where the problems start. By doing that, you'd lose the OSD of that AVR or AVP. However, since your RMC-1 works fine with only one display connected, your "use case" might be different and would allow you to use it in a much different way than other users would. After getting acquainted and comfortable with the Vertex, you might also want to experiment with "spoofing" your projector into thinking it's Dolby Vision "capable". To do that, you copy the EDID from your projector and edit it (using the HDFury software) to include a LLDV block. That tells the source devices that the sink is DV capable, but only supports the "player-led" profile (LLDV). Then, set the Vertex to automatically trigger the HDR mode when an LLDV signal is present. You'd then get Dolby Vision properly tone mapped to BT.2020 using the HDR10 mode of your projector. The Vertex (and newer 8K Vroom) are powerful tools and are well supported. I don't think you've made a wrong choice. But since your EDID's of those two displays are so close, I too would be curious to know if simply blocking CEC communication from your projector (thereby eliminating the CEC loop) would have eliminated the problem. Since this same thing will happen to (or likely already has happened to) someone else, please do keep us posted...  There are some users on AVS forum that said they have had good luck with the HD Fury devices fixing their HDMI issues with Emo processors. Specifically I know of one user that was having issues with the RMC-1 and the HD Fury (Vroom I believe) fixed their issues. |
|
doc1963
Emo VIPs
Posts: 5,017
Member is Online
|
Post by doc1963 on Feb 8, 2022 12:40:15 GMT -5
There are some users on AVS forum that said they have had good luck with the HD Fury devices fixing their HDMI issues with Emo processors. Specifically I know of one user that was having issues with the RMC-1 and the HD Fury (Vroom I believe) fixed their issues. I've seen those post too and I would agree that when you're having otherwise unsolvable issues, these products are a godsend. Maybe one day we'll see an official outboard HDFury "HDMI Processor" (which they really already are, but I'd like to see two more inputs) where the AVR/AVP manufacturers only need to worry about providing one "audio only" HDMI input. In theory, eARC should be the eventual answer to the latter, but then you have display manufacurers like LG and Samsung who step in and screw the pooch by not only dropping internal decoding support for DTS (which is entirely logical), but also not supporting DTS passthrough. Jeez... don't get me started...  |
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Feb 8, 2022 15:15:02 GMT -5
Good about no CEC/ARC. There is still an issue with some brands of projectors where they will not let go of the HDMI handshake. Both of my Epson pj's do not exhibit this behavior so I'm no help with this issue. You should contact Emotiva and ask if the HDMI module that is updated in FW2.5 dated 22/01/12 is supposed to have any effect on projectors and tv's connected concurrently. They should be able to give some tips at least. Short of that, it might be worth a try anyway to update to 2.5, which is what I'm currently running, as it helps in other ways vs 2.4. One last thing you might try, if you haven't already, is to disconnect all HDMI cables on the processor, pull the plugs on tv, pj, and processor for a few minutes, then plug tv, pj, and the OPPO into the processor and boot everything up. This should be your best shot at the least intrusive setup. You don't need to play any disc, just the OPPO menu should suffice. Thanks for the info! So are you saying you leave a 4K TV and a 4K Epson Projector connected to the two HDMI outputs all the time and everything works properly?So do I with my Panasonic 1080p projector and my Sony 4k TV. Never any issues.. But I normally don’t have both on at the same time.. Some projector brands are crappy with the HDMI handshake.. They don’t ”let go” when set to standby. The only option is to cut the power.. Or get another projector. Emotiva could offer some help, but I doubt you’ll see anything getting fixed in a year or so.. If at all.. |
|
richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 890
|
Post by richb on Feb 8, 2022 15:28:02 GMT -5
No idea unless the audio coming from his ATV4K doesn't involve Atmos metadata. If the incoming stream is simply 5.1 or 7.1 (no Atmos), then the ATV4K will output multichannel PCM accordingly. Your Gen3 processor should report the incoming signal as "PCM 5.1" or "PCM 7.1". Only audio that is Atmos based will be encapsulated within a MAT container which your Gen3 processor will report as "TrueHD". Now on the other hand (as I mentioned in my "edited" response to his post), if he is playing content that he has ripped from a blu-ray disc that contains a "real" TrueHD based Atmos audio track, then depending upon the playback app, he would only get multichannel PCM as the ATV4K does not decode (and is not licensed for) TrueHD. If you use Infuse, Firecore has licensed a decoder for both TrueHD and DTS:HD-MA, so both of those formats are fully supported within the Infuse software. But what you get from the ATV4K's output is "lossless" multichannel PCM. Plex works similarly, but will transcode the TrueHD audio to FLAC. I'm not sure what Emby does. EDIT: But in any case, "Atmos" from a TrueHD source is not supported by any of these third party apps as the Dolby MAT encapsulator that Apple uses in the ATV4K is only licensed for EAC3 based sources (DD+). Since Apple does not officially support or care about ones "ripped" content, that will never change. I hope that makes sense...  I just noticed NBC is showing the Olympics in HDR and Atmos. The RMC-1L is reporting the bitstream as DD+ with the surround mode showing as Atmos. I'll take your word for it  - Rich |
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Feb 8, 2022 15:43:30 GMT -5
I just noticed NBC is showing the Olympics in HDR and Atmos. The RMC-1L is reporting the bitstream as DD+ with the surround mode showing as Atmos. I'll take your word for it  - Rich When using Shield and set to bitstream it does report DD+ for most streaming services. Or legacy DD on some content. Atmos content for sport or other live broadcast is not usual.. But it’s nice that it’s coming along.. I can’t think of any streaming service that uses TrueHD.. |
|
|
|
Post by novisnick on Feb 8, 2022 17:15:48 GMT -5
I haven’t posted here much because on the most part my RMC-1 has worked pretty well. Yes, it does have the bass problem but its been pretty steady until this past week. When I change inputs my tv now shows an icon that it’s happening. Normally I’d have a black screen for just a moment and then the data from the new input would appear. I’ve rebooted and checked all HDMI cables and still the problem persists. I run my unit on quick on for the record.
Not the end of the world but I thought I’d report it.
|
|
|
|
Post by jjkessler on Feb 9, 2022 8:49:33 GMT -5
I am starting to budget for a new projector later this year. Looking at the new JVC’s coming out with HDMI 2.1 ports and wonder if I should be concerned that my RMC-1L is not 2.1 capable yet? From what I am hearing from this thread, there my be a board upgrade path at some point, similar to what they did with the XMC-1 HDMI board. I’m more concerned with making the investment in the new projector if I have no clue if and when the RMC-1L can support HDMI 2.1
|
|
|
|
Post by cwmcobra on Feb 9, 2022 9:32:39 GMT -5
I am starting to budget for a new projector later this year. Looking at the new JVC’s coming out with HDMI 2.1 ports and wonder if I should be concerned that my RMC-1L is not 2.1 capable yet? From what I am hearing from this thread, there my be a board upgrade path at some point, similar to what they did with the XMC-1 HDMI board. I’m more concerned with making the investment in the new projector if I have no clue if and when the RMC-1L can support HDMI 2.1 I purchased a new JVC RS2100 projector that is HDMI 2.1 capable and will use it with my XMC-2. The theater is not quite ready for the equipment but will be soon, so I have no real world experience yet. However, I can comment on two things. First, I've read that Emotiva will offer a HDMI 2.1 board upgrade for the G3Ps. So that will likely be available in the future. No date has been announced. Second, I understand that unless you plan to do video gaming with the projector, HDMI 2.1 is of no value from either audio or video for TV and movie watching. The resolutions and refresh rates used for movies and TV aren't high enough to take advantage of the 2.1 capabilities. Now, if you're a gamer, you probably already knew all this and I'll apologize for boring you with this info that you probably already knew. I'm not a gamer, so will probably not update my XMC-2 to the HDMI 2.1 board when available, simply because I see no benefit for my use case. Cheers! Chuck |
|
doc1963
Emo VIPs
Posts: 5,017
Member is Online
|
Post by doc1963 on Feb 9, 2022 9:39:58 GMT -5
I am starting to budget for a new projector later this year. Looking at the new JVC’s coming out with HDMI 2.1 ports and wonder if I should be concerned that my RMC-1L is not 2.1 capable yet? From what I am hearing from this thread, there my be a board upgrade path at some point, similar to what they did with the XMC-1 HDMI board. I’m more concerned with making the investment in the new projector if I have no clue if and when the RMC-1L can support HDMI 2.1 My display is HDMI 2.1 and I have no problem using my RMC-1L (or AV8805) with it. Neither are yet HDMI 2.1 processors. Of course, I'm not a gamer and have no source components that "need" anything that HDMI 2.1 has to offer. So if you're in the same situation, you should do just fine. However if you do "need" HDMI 2.1 throughput from your sources before Emotiva's solution arrives (and those inevitable bugs are sorted), there's always other solutions that will work not only today, but also in the future regardless of your audio processor's capabilities. One of those solutions is the HDFury Vrroom. With that said, I believe you're safe to continue as planned... |
|
|
|
Post by jjkessler on Feb 9, 2022 13:11:16 GMT -5
Thank you for the feedback on using HDMI 2.1 displays with G3P, I will stay on course for a new projector seeing as the HDMI 2.1 issue is not likely an issue for my use case (4K home theater)
|
|
|
|
Post by The Praetorian on Feb 9, 2022 13:34:25 GMT -5
I am starting to budget for a new projector later this year. Looking at the new JVC’s coming out with HDMI 2.1 ports and wonder if I should be concerned that my RMC-1L is not 2.1 capable yet? From what I am hearing from this thread, there my be a board upgrade path at some point, similar to what they did with the XMC-1 HDMI board. I’m more concerned with making the investment in the new projector if I have no clue if and when the RMC-1L can support HDMI 2.1 For a home theater enthusiast the interesting features in HDMI 2.1 are Dynamic HDR and Quick Media Switching www.hdmi.org/spec/hdmi2_1 |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2022 13:36:24 GMT -5
I am starting to budget for a new projector later this year. Looking at the new JVC’s coming out with HDMI 2.1 ports and wonder if I should be concerned that my RMC-1L is not 2.1 capable yet? From what I am hearing from this thread, there my be a board upgrade path at some point, similar to what they did with the XMC-1 HDMI board. I’m more concerned with making the investment in the new projector if I have no clue if and when the RMC-1L can support HDMI 2.1 Running the new DLA-NZ8 up to 4K60 HDR through the RMC-1 and it's fantastic. I'm having fewer issues than I had with an old Panasonic 1080p. Running an old Blue Jeans 40' cable between the receiver and projector and haven't noticed any drop outs. Unless there's something very specific about HDMI 2.1 that you think you need you should be good to go. |
|
|
|
Post by zdoggz on Feb 9, 2022 17:36:09 GMT -5
No worries, we’re all here to bounce ideas off of each other. But I did misspeak… my current Ruipro is 6m, not 15. I had “feet” in mind. 😁 EDIT: I just checked and my original Ruipro was 10 meters (33 feet), but still ran perfectly without a power inserter. I removed the power inserter but the problem remained, so I ordered a 3ft zeskit cable that should be here on Wednesday. A 5ft was only a $1 more but I wanted to maximize the chances of this resolving the issue especially if it’s a signal strength issue as it seems to be. I’ll report back (hopefully with good news). I received the zeskit cable and unfortunately I got the same result. Sucks. I will have to see if I can get my hands on another 4K bd player to test since the ATV4k works totally fine so there must be something w that. I even did another hard reset of the rmc and only plugged in the bd player on hdmi 1 before powering it back on and nothing. Of course, when I plug it into the Jvc it is 4K/60 and when I plug it into the Jvc via the ruipro cable it is 4K/60. One thing I noticed is that when I go to that input and it goes to display the picture, the Jvc input screen in top right corner sometimes says hdmi 1 and “out of range” underneath it. Wonder what other devices may cause issues in the future and if there is anything I can do about it. The primary reason I bought the ruipro was to avoid these issues (they says it has 0 signal loss) so not sure what the deal is. As they say, it’s always something! |
|
|
|
Post by bitzerjdb on Feb 9, 2022 17:57:15 GMT -5
I removed the power inserter but the problem remained, so I ordered a 3ft zeskit cable that should be here on Wednesday. A 5ft was only a $1 more but I wanted to maximize the chances of this resolving the issue especially if it’s a signal strength issue as it seems to be. I’ll report back (hopefully with good news). I received the zeskit cable and unfortunately I got the same result. Sucks. I will have to see if I can get my hands on another 4K bd player to test since the ATV4k works totally fine so there must be something w that. I even did another hard reset of the rmc and only plugged in the bd player on hdmi 1 before powering it back on and nothing. Of course, when I plug it into the Jvc it is 4K/60 and when I plug it into the Jvc via the ruipro cable it is 4K/60. One thing I noticed is that when I go to that input and it goes to display the picture, the Jvc input screen in top right corner sometimes says hdmi 1 and “out of range” underneath it. Wonder what other devices may cause issues in the future and if there is anything I can do about it. The primary reason I bought the ruipro was to avoid these issues (they says it has 0 signal loss) so not sure what the deal is. As they say, it’s always something! Some devices refuse to sync... I have a Tivo Bolt that does it. Works perfectly connected to the TV, but put the RMC in the middle and no dice. The Tivo is our primary source device so it was critical it worked flawlessly. I went with the External HDMI switch and haven't looked back. |
|
|
|
Post by zdoggz on Feb 9, 2022 17:57:46 GMT -5
I am starting to budget for a new projector later this year. Looking at the new JVC’s coming out with HDMI 2.1 ports and wonder if I should be concerned that my RMC-1L is not 2.1 capable yet? From what I am hearing from this thread, there my be a board upgrade path at some point, similar to what they did with the XMC-1 HDMI board. I’m more concerned with making the investment in the new projector if I have no clue if and when the RMC-1L can support HDMI 2.1 Running the new DLA-NZ8 up to 4K60 HDR through the RMC-1 and it's fantastic. I'm having fewer issues than I had with an old Panasonic 1080p. Running an old Blue Jeans 40' cable between the receiver and projector and haven't noticed any drop outs. Unless there's something very specific about HDMI 2.1 that you think you need you should be good to go. What source devices are you using for your 4K/60? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2022 20:03:04 GMT -5
Sources in my signature they are:
Arris Cable Box, Sony UBP-X700, dCS Rossini.
I use the cable box and Sony blue ray player for Netflix, Prime, and Youtube. The Sony passes HDR info, the Arris does not. 4K & 8K HDR stuff from Youtube can be quite beautiful.
|
|
|
|
Post by jjkessler on Feb 9, 2022 21:13:28 GMT -5
The DLA-NZ8 is the new laser projector? Heard they are tough to calibrate but, love the laser output
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2022 22:05:05 GMT -5
NZ8 - Don't know about tough to calibrate. Out of the box I found settings that looked outstanding and only required minor adjustment to look even better (good enough for everyone except an obsessive audio/videophile that is...)
|
|
|
|
Post by zdoggz on Feb 10, 2022 10:12:47 GMT -5
I wonder if the xmc/rmc processors store the EDID somewhere and maybe that is why certain devices won’t resync? Just trying to make some sense of it.
|
|
