KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 29, 2022 9:47:12 GMT -5
Exactly... Dirac neither sees what our levels are set to nor has control of them after the fact. However, Dirac does have the ability to set a level or level trim inside their filters themselves, which is baked into the filters, and is entirely independent of our levels. (And this has changed between various versions of Dirac in the long term.) Dirac assumes levels are at zero and anything you set there, before or after running Dirac, will be added to the final result. Setting all to zero now will put it where Dirac thinks is correct. I usually check and adjust levels with an SPL after running Dirac. |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Aug 29, 2022 10:01:06 GMT -5
[Referring to a question about the Output Voltage of the RMC-1] I don't have the exact number - but the max output is somewhere between 4V and 6V RMS. (Which is plenty to run anything you might connect it to.)
Keith, using 4V as the output, would this be measured while connected to an amp or "load", or just measuring an empty output? Also, depending on the amp the RMC-1 is connected to, will the RMS Output Voltage change, or sag, under some conditions? And lastly, that 4V is each Hot pin, correct? So if using the Balanced XLR connection the total of both Hot pins would be 8V? |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Aug 29, 2022 11:12:50 GMT -5
Exactly... Dirac neither sees what our levels are set to nor has control of them after the fact. However, Dirac does have the ability to set a level or level trim inside their filters themselves, which is baked into the filters, and is entirely independent of our levels. (And this has changed between various versions of Dirac in the long term.) Dirac assumes levels are at zero and anything you set there, before or after running Dirac, will be added to the final result. Setting all to zero now will put it where Dirac thinks is correct. I usually check and adjust levels with an SPL after running Dirac. So if I set the levels to zero then reload the Dirac filter, will that work? I prefer having 0’s for my levels vs +2.5dB for the surrounds as a relative zero. While Emotiva has always advertised Dirac as it’s room correction, the Dirac integration seems a little less seamless than other processors like Monoprice. Could this be the reason why DLBC is taking so long? ie Emotiva’s processor’s firmware needs wholesale changes to accommodate DLBC? |
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Post by geebo on Aug 29, 2022 11:27:29 GMT -5
Exactly... Dirac neither sees what our levels are set to nor has control of them after the fact. However, Dirac does have the ability to set a level or level trim inside their filters themselves, which is baked into the filters, and is entirely independent of our levels. (And this has changed between various versions of Dirac in the long term.) So if I set the levels to zero then reload the Dirac filter, will that work? I prefer having 0’s for my levels vs +2.5dB for the surrounds as a relative zero. While Emotiva has always advertised Dirac as it’s room correction, the Dirac integration seems a little less seamless than other processors like Monoprice. Could this be the reason why DLBC is taking so long? ie Emotiva’s processor’s firmware needs wholesale changes to accommodate DLBC? You can just set the levels to zero now. No need to reload the filters as the result will be the same. Whatever the levels are set at when running Dirac have absolutely no effect on the final Dirac filters. If levels are set to something other than zero then those amounts are added to or subtracted from the final Dirac filters. Not only can you set the levels to zero, but you should set them to zero. Set you're levels to zero then run a level check to fine tune if you like. |
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Post by sebna on Aug 29, 2022 16:52:06 GMT -5
Guys I am slightly confused. It seems that 2.5 mostly fixed bass management issues but also later it was reported that with new DIRAC version the BM problems are back in full swing? Can anybody confirm what is the status of the bug? Probably my posts that you saw. It's very confusing. After the 3.x Dirac releases I did multiple tests and confirmed the part of the BM bug that had been fixed - the +5db boost - had returned. This was late April/May. I tested several scenarios and used measurements I did in March as well as new measurements. I was getting +8db total as I had before our V2.5 firmware. Since the only thing that changed was that I downloaded new filter files from a new Dirac version, I sent a note to Dirac explaining the issue - not expecting that it was even their problem. - but just to see if maybe they changed something in their config file that Emotiva was using in their "workaround" partial fix. I got no reply. Shortly later - maybe early June - I tried downloading filters again ... and the problem was gone! Response was back to what it was in March. Now my procedures are rigorous and repeatable so I found no possible error in what I did and could not reproduce the problem again using Dirac 3.3. The only thing I can think of is that it is known that Dirac does some processing on their server. So maybe they changed something on their end after my note to them that fixed the issue. I can't explain it any other way. So as of now, if you use two subs for bass management or if you use two large fronts, you will only see a 3db boost below 100Hz. Indeed it was your post Marc I was referring to.
Can I check with you two things as I am not sure if I understand the problem correctly.
1. So if I will have all speakers set to small and my two subs would be going through MiniDSP so seen as one by XMC-2 would BM problem not apply to my scenario?
2. If I have all speakers set to small and then use "Ref. Stereo" mode which auto switches L/R to full size would the BM problem apply?
Many thanks Marc (and to anybody else who would like to chime in)
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Post by sebna on Aug 29, 2022 16:55:38 GMT -5
Another general setup question: 1. If I would use MiniDSP to manage my two subs to which Sub output should I connect MiniDSP on XMC-2 (does it matter)? 2. If I would decided not to use MiniDSP and use PEQ in XMC to manage my 2 subs to which outputs on XMC-2 should I connect them (if it matters)? 3. Which of the above would yield me better results (better LFE and BM SQ)? And finally can I import filters to XMC PEQ or do I have to enter them manually (and if so is there any tool I could use to know what to input to achieve what I want)? Many thanks my friends  |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Aug 29, 2022 17:58:35 GMT -5
So if I set the levels to zero then reload the Dirac filter, will that work? I prefer having 0’s for my levels vs +2.5dB for the surrounds as a relative zero. While Emotiva has always advertised Dirac as it’s room correction, the Dirac integration seems a little less seamless than other processors like Monoprice. Could this be the reason why DLBC is taking so long? ie Emotiva’s processor’s firmware needs wholesale changes to accommodate DLBC? You can just set the levels to zero now. No need to reload the filters as the result will be the same. Whatever the levels are set at when running Dirac have absolutely no effect on the final Dirac filters. If levels are set to something other than zero then those amounts are added to or subtracted from the final Dirac filters. Not only can you set the levels to zero, but you should set them to zero. Set you're levels to zero then run a level check to fine tune if you like. I lowered the levels to zero and it lowered the surround output accordingly. Well I’ll just leave it alone as I dread taking Dirac measurements:). |
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Post by geebo on Aug 29, 2022 18:04:38 GMT -5
You can just set the levels to zero now. No need to reload the filters as the result will be the same. Whatever the levels are set at when running Dirac have absolutely no effect on the final Dirac filters. If levels are set to something other than zero then those amounts are added to or subtracted from the final Dirac filters. Not only can you set the levels to zero, but you should set them to zero. Set you're levels to zero then run a level check to fine tune if you like. I lowered the levels to zero and it lowered the surround output accordingly. Well I’ll just leave it alone as I dread taking Dirac measurements:). That's right, lowering the levels to zero will reduce the levels of those speakers by that same amount which is where Dirac thinks they should be. If you have an SPL meter or even an app on your phone you can now run Levels and adjust all speakers to get within a dB or two. You shouldn't have to adjust a lot. |
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Post by scrubo on Aug 29, 2022 20:27:46 GMT -5
I have a RMC1L. Seems I lost my volume. If I am on HDMI 1 and switch to 2, I have no volume. If I go back to 1< I also have no volume. If I turn the unit off, then I have volume, but if I go to HDMI 2 then I have no volume, again. Any ideas out there?
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Post by Hughes, G D on Aug 29, 2022 20:32:47 GMT -5
Sony HDMI input must be set to 4k HDR. Apple TV is set to output 4K HDR with Dolby Vision on. Apple TV test the signal before making the switch. Test passes and switches to 4K HDR The preferred best setting is 4K SDR 60, and yes, both match setting (that will turn HDR and DV on when needed). I believe the problem you're running into is unusual, but not uncommon, that is, you are likely using a hardwired ethernet connection? If yes, try WiFi, I know this sounds unusual, but it has helped many people with sound dropouts and TV, which is to say, it's Apple's problem to fix. Try that first and see if it fixes your audio dropouts. I changed the Apple TV out to 4K SDR 60 (which is not preferred when all component parts are capable of HDR), Anyway, same thing happens. The only way the XMC-2 passes the signal without interruption is by changing the output to 1080P. This is not acceptable. |
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Post by Hughes, G D on Aug 29, 2022 20:42:33 GMT -5
Sony HDMI input must be set to 4k HDR. Apple TV is set to output 4K HDR with Dolby Vision on. Apple TV test the signal before making the switch. Test passes and switches to 4K HDR I've got more time now, and have some questions so I can understand more fully. Which model tv is it? How long is each HDMI cable? The one from the ATV4K to processor, and the one from processor to tv. The fact that the ATV4K cable test passes is great! But it still could be on the edge of the combined performance of all cables and connections. So while the test result is good, there's obviously something happening that is interfering with the signal. On the ATV4K there's a setting called Match Content in the Video And Audio section. On mine the "Match Dynamic Range" and "Match Frame Rate" are both set to On. I'm able to use the maximum setting on the ATV4K for video. View Attachment View AttachmentI use WiFi for the ATV4K, not wired ethernet. If yours is wired, then you should search for the Apple TV 4k 2021 model ATMOS problems that have been discussed elsewhere. The problems only seem to happen when a wired network connection is used. Not everyone has the problems, but lots of folks do. I can replicate the problem if I change to a wired connection, but I can also make the problem go away when using wired and when I limit the bandwidth to 30Mbps. Go figure. Like I said, it's discussed at length elsewhere. Apple has a beta firmware that's supposed to fix the problem, but it's not perfect last I checked several weeks ago. Which HDMI output is being used on the XMC-2? Which HDMI input is being used on the tv? Is the HDMI input on the tv setup for maximum throughput? I'm trying to find which setting this is for your series tv, but it's difficult not knowing the model number. On my tv it's called "Enhanced Format", and it is not enabled by default, I had to enable it. View Attachment LIke I said, I can use the default settings on my XMC-2, and default settings on the Sony tv except for the HDMI Format needing to be set to "Enhanced Format", and the settings I show on the ATV4K, and DV works as it should. I watch 4K DV ATMOS often. My cables are: Zeskit Maya 8K 1 meter HDMI cable from ATV4K to XMC-2 RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable CL2 Rated 10 meter from XMC-2 to Sony tv. The TV is a Sony Bravia Master Series XR65A90J. HDMI are matching 3 ft each XMC-2 input HDMI-1 / OutPut HDMI-2 TV input HDMI-3 The input on the TV can be selected to accept different signals. It is set correctly. I did try Input 4 and 1 with the same result Remember in my first post. I can go directly from ATV to the Sony with no signal problem at all. Why? |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Aug 29, 2022 21:08:18 GMT -5
I've got more time now, and have some questions so I can understand more fully. Which model tv is it? How long is each HDMI cable? The one from the ATV4K to processor, and the one from processor to tv. The fact that the ATV4K cable test passes is great! But it still could be on the edge of the combined performance of all cables and connections. So while the test result is good, there's obviously something happening that is interfering with the signal. On the ATV4K there's a setting called Match Content in the Video And Audio section. On mine the "Match Dynamic Range" and "Match Frame Rate" are both set to On. I'm able to use the maximum setting on the ATV4K for video. View Attachment View AttachmentI use WiFi for the ATV4K, not wired ethernet. If yours is wired, then you should search for the Apple TV 4k 2021 model ATMOS problems that have been discussed elsewhere. The problems only seem to happen when a wired network connection is used. Not everyone has the problems, but lots of folks do. I can replicate the problem if I change to a wired connection, but I can also make the problem go away when using wired and when I limit the bandwidth to 30Mbps. Go figure. Like I said, it's discussed at length elsewhere. Apple has a beta firmware that's supposed to fix the problem, but it's not perfect last I checked several weeks ago. Which HDMI output is being used on the XMC-2? Which HDMI input is being used on the tv? Is the HDMI input on the tv setup for maximum throughput? I'm trying to find which setting this is for your series tv, but it's difficult not knowing the model number. On my tv it's called "Enhanced Format", and it is not enabled by default, I had to enable it. View Attachment LIke I said, I can use the default settings on my XMC-2, and default settings on the Sony tv except for the HDMI Format needing to be set to "Enhanced Format", and the settings I show on the ATV4K, and DV works as it should. I watch 4K DV ATMOS often. My cables are: Zeskit Maya 8K 1 meter HDMI cable from ATV4K to XMC-2 RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable CL2 Rated 10 meter from XMC-2 to Sony tv. The TV is a Sony Bravia Master Series XR65A90J. HDMI are matching 3 ft each XMC-2 input HDMI-1 / OutPut HDMI-2 TV input HDMI-3 The input on the TV can be selected to accept different signals. It is set correctly. I did try Input 4 and 1 with the same result Remember in my first post. I can go directly from ATV to the Sony with no signal problem at all. Why? You say your HDMI are matching 3ft each, what brand? I ask because I have just run a very similar setup, with an XMC-2/AppleTV4K/Sony XR-77A80J and I'm not getting audio dropouts. My HDMI cables are Zeskit Maya 8K. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 29, 2022 21:13:43 GMT -5
The preferred best setting is 4K SDR 60, and yes, both match setting (that will turn HDR and DV on when needed). I believe the problem you're running into is unusual, but not uncommon, that is, you are likely using a hardwired ethernet connection? If yes, try WiFi, I know this sounds unusual, but it has helped many people with sound dropouts and TV, which is to say, it's Apple's problem to fix. Try that first and see if it fixes your audio dropouts. I changed the Apple TV out to 4K SDR 60 (which is not preferred when all component parts are capable of HDR), Anyway, same thing happens. The only way the XMC-2 passes the signal without interruption is by changing the output to 1080P. This is not acceptable. So 4K SDR 60 with match dynamic range and frame rate on is still preferred if all your components are HDR capable, as are mine and many who use these settings. If you use HDR, you are forcing everything to display in HDR, including SDR, so you are not playing the material the way it was produced. If you use match dynamic range and SDR, it will automatically switch to HDR when the material warrants it, same with DolbyVision. If you use HDR you’re also putting much more stress on your TV, and wasting energy. However, it’s the network to Wi-Fi that might help the audio issue, I didn’t notice if you tried that? Edit: I noticed LCSeminole asking about cables, which are suspect with your symptoms, here’s a thread discussing cables that have worked with the RMC/XMCs. The G3P cable thread |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Aug 29, 2022 21:37:33 GMT -5
HDMI are matching 3 ft each Do you happen to know the rating of your cables? Sony recommends " Use a Premium High-Speed HDMI cable that supports Enhanced format (18Gbps)" for your tv. XMC-2 OutPut HDMI-2 TV input HDMI-3 Fine. The only difference from using the preferred output and input you are using and the others on each device is the ability to use ARC or eARC. But when problems crop up, it's just good sense to use the most capable connection. The input on the TV can be selected to accept different signals. It is set correctly. I did try Input 4 and 1 with the same result From the manual: " Use a Premium High-Speed HDMI cable that supports Enhanced format (18Gbps).
Set the HDMI signal format for the connected HDMI port to either Enhanced format (Dolby Vision) or Enhanced format." It appears that all of the tv's inputs can be set for either format. I would think either format would work, but which did you choose? Remember in my first post. I can go directly from ATV to the Sony with no signal problem at all. Why? Connecting to a processor involves an extra cable and more connections. Higher rated cables are needed to keep the throughput high. As the others have asked above, which network connection type are you using, Wired or WiFi? Wired is supposed to be better, right?, but with the ATV4K it's not. Just an unfortunate fact at the moment. |
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Post by Stephen Park on Aug 29, 2022 23:40:26 GMT -5
I’ve installed tvOS 16 which is beta version, almost 3 weeks already.
There is no audio dropouts, no ATMOS trueHD change to ATMOS PCM 7.1, nor any audio problem.
However, RMC 1L still have “Gaggling” sound sometimes. It is disappear when select other source and back.
It sounds like affect certain frequency range only. Especially mid range frequencies like humen voice.
This problem is definitely from RMC, not ATV because other sources like oppo or PC also sometimes(rarely) happens.
Not serious problem, but bug is bug.
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Aug 30, 2022 1:15:45 GMT -5
I’ve installed tvOS 16 which is beta version, almost 3 weeks already. There is no audio dropouts, no ATMOS trueHD change to ATMOS PCM 7.1, nor any audio problem. However, RMC 1L still have “Gaggling” sound sometimes. It is disappear when select other source and back. It sounds like affect certain frequency range only. Especially mid range frequencies like humen voice. This problem is definitely from RMC, not ATV because other sources like oppo or PC also sometimes(rarely) happens. Not serious problem, but bug is bug. Yes it sounds like the sound didn’t lock in properly. It also happens to me from time to time. I was hoping this would be fixed as it has been happening for some time now. It wasn’t there in the beginning though, it was introduced after launch. It’s definitely the G3P, it only happens with my XMC2 and not in my 2 other systems. |
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Post by marcl on Aug 30, 2022 2:10:59 GMT -5
Probably my posts that you saw. It's very confusing. After the 3.x Dirac releases I did multiple tests and confirmed the part of the BM bug that had been fixed - the +5db boost - had returned. This was late April/May. I tested several scenarios and used measurements I did in March as well as new measurements. I was getting +8db total as I had before our V2.5 firmware. Since the only thing that changed was that I downloaded new filter files from a new Dirac version, I sent a note to Dirac explaining the issue - not expecting that it was even their problem. - but just to see if maybe they changed something in their config file that Emotiva was using in their "workaround" partial fix. I got no reply. Shortly later - maybe early June - I tried downloading filters again ... and the problem was gone! Response was back to what it was in March. Now my procedures are rigorous and repeatable so I found no possible error in what I did and could not reproduce the problem again using Dirac 3.3. The only thing I can think of is that it is known that Dirac does some processing on their server. So maybe they changed something on their end after my note to them that fixed the issue. I can't explain it any other way. So as of now, if you use two subs for bass management or if you use two large fronts, you will only see a 3db boost below 100Hz. Indeed it was your post Marc I was referring to.
Can I check with you two things as I am not sure if I understand the problem correctly.
1. So if I will have all speakers set to small and my two subs would be going through MiniDSP so seen as one by XMC-2 would BM problem not apply to my scenario?
2. If I have all speakers set to small and then use "Ref. Stereo" mode which auto switches L/R to full size would the BM problem apply?
Many thanks Marc (and to anybody else who would like to chime in)
#1 - You are correct ... no BM problem #2 - Reference Stereo is only two-channel with no BM, so the BM problem does not apply. The key things about the BM issues: There was an arbitrary bump of about 5db that was fixed with 2.5. What remains is, if you have more than one speaker playing bass management (subwoofer or large front) you get +3db for each speaker beyond one. |
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Post by marcl on Aug 30, 2022 2:25:12 GMT -5
Another general setup question: 1. If I would use MiniDSP to manage my two subs to which Sub output should I connect MiniDSP on XMC-2 (does it matter)? 2. If I would decided not to use MiniDSP and use PEQ in XMC to manage my 2 subs to which outputs on XMC-2 should I connect them (if it matters)? 3. Which of the above would yield me better results (better LFE and BM SQ)? And finally can I import filters to XMC PEQ or do I have to enter them manually (and if so is there any tool I could use to know what to input to achieve what I want)? Many thanks my friends #1 - You would connect to either Center or Left. So Center makes the most sense. Then you have a choice: if you want LFE + BM to go to the subs, set Center Sub=Mono; If you want only LFE to subs and BM to large fronts, set Center Sub=LFE (you will have +3db BM boost in the fronts) #2 - If you don't use miniDSP, then use Left and Right Sub outputs set to Dual Mono. You will have +3db boost in BM. #3 + last question - The best answer is to use Dirac in either case. Dirac will give you better results than PEQ because the filters are more sophisticated and you get phase and impulse response correction. When you use Dirac, the best results will be with miniDSP because you will use it to time-align the two subs so Dirac sees them as one sub and aligns them to the rest of the speakers. No need to do any PEQ in the miniDSP. If for some reason you don't want to use Dirac, then you should use Room EQ Wizard to measure the response of each speaker. REW can output a file that you can import into miniDSP or XMC. There is a procedure to export the specific file for each device. |
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Post by wizardofoz on Aug 30, 2022 9:14:13 GMT -5
Are we there yet? 3.0? Guess not or we would be well into the 400’s of pages already. 2/3 of the year gone….
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Post by marcl on Aug 30, 2022 9:29:26 GMT -5
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Dirac assumes levels are at zero and anything you set there, before or after running Dirac, will be added to the final result. Setting all to zero now will put it where Dirac thinks is correct. I usually check and adjust levels with an SPL after running Dirac.
