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Post by PaulBe on Oct 13, 2022 23:34:01 GMT -5
Again - Just to be clear here. If EMO meets requirements above what I require. That is ok with me. I both respect and agree with that. Though my beef is with how my RMC-1L has never performed reliably or completely to the specifications advertised. I have detailed my concerns and conclusions in this regard. Anyone can read my posts. Good night. |
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Post by consul on Oct 14, 2022 3:05:40 GMT -5
- 200 watt autoswitching power supply
hi, I'm really apprehensive for the 200W PSU upgrade.. Almost all (non PC-based) brand audio processor (Marantz, Arcam, NAD, Rotel, Longdorf, etc..) are satisfying <100W power supply. What is the reason to replace the existing 100W PSU with the twin power output? Is Emotiva going to integrate "an intelligent" fan blower? What is the expected stand by power consumption - for instance the important questions for EU customers/certifications? PS: the specification of the recently introduced Marantz AV10: - Power Consumption in W: 90 - Standby Consumption in W: 0.2 - CEC Standby Consumption in W: 0.5 - Network Standby Consumption in W: < 2.0 |
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Post by aswiss on Oct 14, 2022 4:22:38 GMT -5
they integrate a new Audio Board, a new Video Board, and probably more things, not so clear now.
Maybe it is a change of the needs as a reason to change the whole material out of the G3P.
At the end, this is not what I expected as an Upgrade path. Anyway its too early to know and understand.
And we don't have to care the why - Emotiva has defined it this way - and its more take it or leave it.
As long as all the current issues can be fixed (I'm not sure about this) with FW 3.x - no need to go with the upgrade path.
- 200 watt autoswitching power supply
hi, I'm really apprehensive for the 200W PSU upgrade.. Almost all (non PC-based) brand audio processor (Marantz, Arcam, NAD, Rotel, Longdorf, etc..) are satisfying <100W power supply. What is the reason to replace the existing 100W PSU with the twin power output? Is Emotiva going to integrate "an intelligent" fan blower? What is the expected stand by power consumption - for instance the important questions for EU customers/certifications? PS: the specification of the recently introduced Marantz AV10: - Power Consumption in W: 90 - Standby Consumption in W: 0.2 - CEC Standby Consumption in W: 0.5 - Network Standby Consumption in W: < 2.0 |
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Post by consul on Oct 14, 2022 6:34:50 GMT -5
they integrate a new Audio Board, a new Video Board, and probably more things, not so clear now.
Maybe it is a change of the needs as a reason to change the whole material out of the G3P. But we are specking about DOUBLE power consumption... The Lyngdorf MP-60 (around 10'000€ price tag) is specified with heat dissipation value = 340 BTU. It means: round about 100 W. Even the PC-based "monster" Trinnov Audio AGNITUDE 32 (>23'000 € price tag) is specified with: heat dissipation value of 450 BTU or 132W Max Power Consumption. I'm really anxious for the picture of the real panel and the overall dimensions of the 4G devises - if the new generation can really replace the RMC-1L/XMC-2 in terms of size, silence and needed air cooling ?.. |
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Post by Goodfella on Oct 14, 2022 9:26:13 GMT -5
I wouldn’t think about upgrading until the current product works correctly and I knew that the new product works correctly. This will be difficult with Emotiva’s track record with buggy processors. I hope I am wrong and version 3.0 releases fixing all bugs and the new processors release with a mature software that is bug free.
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NicS
Sensei
Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
Posts: 238
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Post by NicS on Oct 14, 2022 12:12:16 GMT -5
I wouldn’t think about upgrading until the current product works correctly and I knew that the new product works correctly. This will be difficult with Emotiva’s track record with buggy processors. I hope I am wrong and version 3.0 releases fixing all bugs and the new processors release with a mature software that is bug free. I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. And given that I know the very good people at Emotiva read this forum, and are no doubt miffed about the slow drip of my pithy comments, perhaps they now understand that despite all the hassles we have collectively experienced, we still have the potential to be loyal. Just help us back there. |
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Post by msimanyi on Oct 14, 2022 13:59:13 GMT -5
But we are specking about DOUBLE power consumption... Actually we're speaking about the *ability* to provide double the power to the system. That doesn't mean it's consuming all it can provide. (See standby/idle/use examples above...) |
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Post by consul on Oct 14, 2022 14:46:11 GMT -5
But we are specking about DOUBLE power consumption... Actually we're speaking about the *ability* to provide double the power to the system. That doesn't mean it's consuming all it can provide. (See standby/idle/use examples above...) Yes, but what is the reason to have this ability? And why Emotiva communicate about this in main features of the new device generation? My theory: to highlight, that the just video/audio board retrofit is not possible due to noticeably higher power consumption of the new components. The most important thing is, that any electronic device releases the all consumed power in the heating... Therefore my question about active cooling and herewith caused noise generation of the overall system? |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 14, 2022 14:58:05 GMT -5
Actually we're speaking about the *ability* to provide double the power to the system. That doesn't mean it's consuming all it can provide. (See standby/idle/use examples above...) Yes, but what is the reason to have this ability? And why Emotiva communicate about this in main features of the new device generation? My theory: to highlight, that the just video/audio board retrofit is not possible due to noticeably higher power consumption of the new components. The most important thing is, that any electronic device releases the all consumed power in the heating... Therefore my question about active cooling and herewith caused noise generation of the overall system? Having 'ability' is a good thing. Nothing to be anxious about. |
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Post by msimanyi on Oct 14, 2022 15:08:56 GMT -5
Yes, but what is the reason to have this ability? And why Emotiva communicate about this in main features of the new device generation? My theory: to highlight, that the just video/audio board retrofit is not possible due to noticeably higher power consumption of the new components. The most important thing is, that any electronic device releases the all consumed power in the heating... Therefore my question about active cooling and herewith caused noise generation of the overall system? It may be as simple as providing headroom so future upgrades are possible. It may be as simple as "the custom power supply at our precise 132 watt spec is 2x the price of this readily available 200 watt power supply." If I were in charge, I'd find a passive cooling solution before going active. I'd guess 90%+ of the user base has these units open and visible while watching TV or listening to music, and those people don't want to hear fans running. |
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Post by davidl81 on Oct 14, 2022 17:36:07 GMT -5
Yes, but what is the reason to have this ability? And why Emotiva communicate about this in main features of the new device generation? My theory: to highlight, that the just video/audio board retrofit is not possible due to noticeably higher power consumption of the new components. The most important thing is, that any electronic device releases the all consumed power in the heating... Therefore my question about active cooling and herewith caused noise generation of the overall system? It may be as simple as providing headroom so future upgrades are possible. It may be as simple as "the custom power supply at our precise 132 watt spec is 2x the price of this readily available 200 watt power supply." If I were in charge, I'd find a passive cooling solution before going active. I'd guess 90%+ of the user base has these units open and visible while watching TV or listening to music, and those people don't want to hear fans running. Yeah active cooling would be a huge negative for me. The fan noise on the BasX Amps are a reminder of how fans go badly quickly (and Emo saying there was nothing wrong with them for a long time) |
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Post by aswiss on Oct 14, 2022 18:20:32 GMT -5
From the website - It's clear, that nothing new will come for the existing G3P - if you want any additional Feature - you have to upgrade. Even the PowerSupply - means, except the Case - you keep nothing.
And good luck with the Support Company, if its like with the other stuff. Switzerland is not on the List, and not in EU.
Please provide the information below if you have warranty service needs for the following countries: UK, Sweden, France, Spain, Portugal, Denmark, Benelux, Germany, Austria, Norway, Ireland, and Italy. Which means, no official support for me - even I bought in Germany - I would have to arrange transportation to DK or USA or the German dealer is maybe willing to help.
If Emotiva is really paying to send it back - I will at least stay with no processor for some weeks.
And today - we don't know if its the same story with the G4P Firmware as it is with the current platform.
I will keep mine as it is - and check again next summer - when my device is 4 years old.
then I can decide if I want to upgrade or buy something else.
All the info about the Upgrade path and new stuff are now published on the website: emotiva.com/pages/processors-promotion
And my concerns are now clear:
How will upgrades work for existing Emotiva Processors?
Multiple boards have to be changed and a whole new OS has to be installed, and the entire system needs to run through our QA to ensure it meets our rigorous standards. Your processor will have to be upgraded here at Emotiva.
I see part of the next generation is a new HDMI 8K board, can I just upgrade that?
No. The next gen system must be done as a complete system. The current hardware does not have the capabilities to run the new components.
G4P /New NextGen Upgrade- 8K (on all inputs and outputs) HDMI 2.1 with ARC/eARC
- Enhanced Dolby Atmos audio decoding
- DTS:X Pro audio decoding
- IMAX Enhanced Audio and Video
- Built in Wifi and hard wired gigabit ethernet
- Fully embedded web setup and control system
- New TI DAC board and upgraded audio (vs AKM)
- 200 watt autoswitching power supply
- Music streaming capable
But what does that mean for Europe customers? I know how much the shipping is from and to USA (some 500 bucks for send an return, in addition to the costs for the Upgrade).
And this will take weeks or month until the upgraded device will be returned - so no Music/Movies for this time = NO GO for me
So its probably easier to buy a new one - but I'm not going again through all that Beta Testing for another 3 years. Thank you, but no. All the info about the Upgrade path and new stuff are now published on the website: emotiva.com/pages/processors-promotionThere is an authorized service in EU. I would hope that it will be possible to do our upgrades and what not directly there 
However, in my case, the only reason why I have bought XMC-2 is the famed SQ, so for me to upgrade it would mean that I have to be sure that it is a true SQ upgrade or at least not a downgrade.
I also hope that the blow does not mean that we can forget about those features for G3P:
Enhanced Dolby Atmos audio decoding
DTS:X Pro audio decoding
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Post by aswiss on Oct 14, 2022 18:32:45 GMT -5
I see it a bit different.
Fact is: the promised HDMI 2.1 Board will not work in the G3P without the new PSU, because Emotiva designed it this way.
Fact is: no upgrades for the G3P without sending the device back to Emotiva, at least for the HDMI 2.1 Board.
they integrate a new Audio Board, a new Video Board, and probably more things, not so clear now.
Maybe it is a change of the needs as a reason to change the whole material out of the G3P. But we are specking about DOUBLE power consumption... The Lyngdorf MP-60 (around 10'000€ price tag) is specified with heat dissipation value = 340 BTU. It means: round about 100 W. Even the PC-based "monster" Trinnov Audio AGNITUDE 32 (>23'000 € price tag) is specified with: heat dissipation value of 450 BTU or 132W Max Power Consumption. I'm really anxious for the picture of the real panel and the overall dimensions of the 4G devises - if the new generation can really replace the RMC-1L/XMC-2 in terms of size, silence and needed air cooling ?.. |
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Post by aswiss on Oct 14, 2022 18:57:45 GMT -5
With respect to the "upgrade", Emotiva has made it clear that they are offering a Trade-in for a brand new unit, so you don't have to wait for yours to be upgraded. Of course you will have to wait for yours to ship in and for a new one to ship out. I read that as well - but I bought my RMC-1 from a dealer in Germany - they were also support center back then.
But today they are no longer. So I probably have to check either with Emotiva - or they arrange something to have some new models available and do the exchange here in Europe somewhere.
Its also not clear for me which price I would have to pay. In US it would be 699$ - don't know if this is valid for Europe as well. And shipping to US and back is very expensive too.
Again - all of this will not happen before Summer 2023.
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Post by BigE on Oct 14, 2022 22:08:35 GMT -5
With respect to the "upgrade", Emotiva has made it clear that they are offering a Trade-in for a brand new unit, so you don't have to wait for yours to be upgraded. Of course you will have to wait for yours to ship in and for a new one to ship out. I read that as well - but I bought my RMC-1 from a dealer in Germany - they were also support center back then.
But today they are no longer. So I probably have to check either with Emotiva - or they arrange something to have some new models available and do the exchange here in Europe somewhere.
Its also not clear for me which price I would have to pay. In US it would be 699$ - don't know if this is valid for Europe as well. And shipping to US and back is very expensive too.
Again - all of this will not happen before Summer 2023.
Did they say $699 or give upgrade pricing somewhere? What would xmc2 be? |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 14, 2022 23:06:20 GMT -5
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Post by junchoon on Oct 14, 2022 23:38:18 GMT -5
Curious, of all the claims made of the Gen4 processor, will it arrive fully baked and ready to eat? Or will it be like my RMC-1L, partially baked, missing key ingredients and can only be consumed once in a blue moon with chop sticks made of licorice. Asking for a friend.... Typo. Green moon. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 15, 2022 0:55:33 GMT -5
I’ve updated the second post in the G4P upgrade thread with G4P pricing information and added a FAQ, it will be updated as more information is acquired. Again, let’s keep the upgrade discussion there. The G4P / “+” Model Pricing and FAQ Post |
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Post by cwt on Oct 15, 2022 4:07:05 GMT -5
I’m trying to point out that chasing specifications does not reflect the reality of what we mostly watch. I assume you watch mostly movies and TV drama. Which is why you buy expensive equipment to enhance your enjoyment. I was merely pointing out the reality of real-world image resolution. Outside of graphics, actual image resolution is for most content of this type is much lower than you think. Anyway, not here to argue the realities of cinematography. I get enough of that during daylong hours. Again, Anyway - Just to be clear here. If EMO meets requirements above what I require. That is ok with me. I miss your pink helmet. Just for clarification ; what is being described here Paul is the fact that due to pro camera limitations and "4k" MTF your not really watching 4k but a much lower effective resolution but still better than 1080p. The nyquist factor is where camera developers have to compromise .. The smpte standard for 4k is set so nyquist anomalies are avoided afaik youtu.be/ht4Mv2wIRyQ I havent seen any mention of a gui overlay in the new features . With a fully imbedded web settup as other brands have maybe the g4;s will be more stable without having to overlay the gui .. I recall Lonnie saying once he prefers no gui iirc.. It is very hard to overlay a hi res gui on 4k bandwidth ; good reason to ditch it |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 15, 2022 8:31:12 GMT -5
Again, Anyway - Just to be clear here. If EMO meets requirements above what I require. That is ok with me. I miss your pink helmet. Just for clarification ; what is being described here Paul is the fact that due to pro camera limitations and "4k" MTF your not really watching 4k but a much lower effective resolution but still better than 1080p. The nyquist factor is where camera developers have to compromise .. The smpte standard for 4k is set so nyquist anomalies are avoided afaik youtu.be/ht4Mv2wIRyQ I havent seen any mention of a gui overlay in the new features . With a fully imbedded web settup as other brands have maybe the g4;s will be more stable without having to overlay the gui .. I recall Lonnie saying once he prefers no gui iirc.. It is very hard to overlay a hi res gui on 4k bandwidth ; good reason to ditch it Some of the first cameras I worked with were RCA TK-44, TK-46, and TKP-47, TK-76, TK-86. See a younger Ted Perry, Anchor, with a TK-86: www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/TV/tk86-witi.jpg. More cameras during and after that time.... Best QC monitor of the day was a Tektronix 19" rack mount with a Trinitron CRT - $5,000 in 1974. Probably a similar price, in today's dollars, to NicS's 30K monitor. We had about 20 of them. We moved to digital when the time arrived. Technology never stands still. Enough with a little background. I play 4K sources everyday, through the G3P, sent to a 4K destination - Samsung 2021 mini-LED set. The sources are variable. I prefer sources to be the limit. The processor should handle all possible formats and have the highest throughput. Or bypass the video entirely, splitting the audio and video externally, with something like the 8K VRROOM. It should not matter if the split happens internally or externally, but an external split requires another monitor to see OSD. All the 4K sources I use have a GUI overlay. I call them up on the fly when needed. No instability occurs. I would like an explanation for why my cheap Panasonic 4K player can handle a GUI overlay without any problems, with any source it plays, but it becomes a problem in the G3P. I like a Web GUI for full setup. OSD is functional for playback use and quick setup. |
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