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Post by brewmaster on Oct 31, 2022 8:26:19 GMT -5
I very much doubt Emotiva has any official statement to make on the ASR review. The owner of ASR has been clear in his belief that if you want the absolutely cleanest signal, skip the AVRs and get a dedicated DAC. Hmmm, what's funny is that I own an XMC-2 and use it every day, and I do not recall hearing any distortion as such? It sounds crystal clear to my human ears. Hey guys, my 2c - I own an XMC-2 as well, and also (4) X series amps including the XPA-DR2. The ASR review on the DR2 is equally negative- but this pair (XMC-DR2) is the best my system has ever sounded in 11 years. There are pops etc when switching from DSD, sure.. but there does not seem to be a distortion problem at all. While I haven't listened to the recommended alternatives (ASR hasn't either, except single channel) several of the highest ranking amps and processors subjectively rate poorly on SQ by reviewers. I suspect there is some secret sauce in the implementation that improves the sound of the components, while sacrificing some of these non-industry standard measurements. All in All, I like the sound and I wish ASR supported my opinion, but I'll enjoy my system nevertheless and to me it makes ASR reviews less valuable to me. To each his own. |
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Post by geebo on Oct 31, 2022 8:50:52 GMT -5
Hmmm, what's funny is that I own an XMC-2 and use it every day, and I do not recall hearing any distortion as such? It sounds crystal clear to my human ears. Hey guys, my 2c - I own an XMC-2 as well, and also (4) X series amps including the XPA-DR2. The ASR review on the DR2 is equally negative- but this pair (XMC-DR2) is the best my system has ever sounded in 11 years. There are pops etc when switching from DSD, sure.. but there does not seem to be a distortion problem at all. While I haven't listened to the recommended alternatives (ASR hasn't either, except single channel) several of the highest ranking amps and processors subjectively rate poorly on SQ by reviewers. I suspect there is some secret sauce in the implementation that improves the sound of the components, while sacrificing some of these non-industry standard measurements. All in All, I like the sound and I wish ASR supported my opinion, but I'll enjoy my system nevertheless and to me it makes ASR reviews less valuable to me. To each his own. What's funny is that many here will have enjoyed the sound of a piece of gear for months or even years and then an ASR review comes out and immediately it no longer sounds good. Glad to see you're not afraid to buck that trend. Measurements do not always tell you what something will sound like. That's in the realm of the human auditory system. |
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Post by rovinggecko on Oct 31, 2022 9:44:38 GMT -5
With energy prices skyrocketing in Europe, sustainability (and wallet) has become top of mind.
Noticing a substantial difference in energy levels between a week vacation where i had turned the power to the stereo fully off and week where i left it in the usual standby i took a closer look.
Suspect were the 13 hypex ucd amps. Putting on an inrush current limiter avoided the fuse tripping and allowed me to put it all behind fibaro plug to easily turn it on/off in my absence.
It also allowed me to measure….
The culprit is my xmc-2, hungrily taking 33 watt, 0.8 kWh a day. Dusting off the manual, turns out it is in ‘video on standby’ mode. I switched it off… i can wait a few extra seconds for it to turn on (my tv takes longer).
In doing so I saved 10% off my electricity bill!!!
A very easy and quick save!
You might want to check your settings….
And perhaps for Emotiva to put a nice sustainability message out to all their customers: check, and turn it off unless you really use it.
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Post by monkumonku on Oct 31, 2022 9:53:11 GMT -5
Hey guys, my 2c - I own an XMC-2 as well, and also (4) X series amps including the XPA-DR2. The ASR review on the DR2 is equally negative- but this pair (XMC-DR2) is the best my system has ever sounded in 11 years. There are pops etc when switching from DSD, sure.. but there does not seem to be a distortion problem at all. While I haven't listened to the recommended alternatives (ASR hasn't either, except single channel) several of the highest ranking amps and processors subjectively rate poorly on SQ by reviewers. I suspect there is some secret sauce in the implementation that improves the sound of the components, while sacrificing some of these non-industry standard measurements. All in All, I like the sound and I wish ASR supported my opinion, but I'll enjoy my system nevertheless and to me it makes ASR reviews less valuable to me. To each his own. What's funny is that many here will have enjoyed the sound of a piece of gear for months or even years and then an ASR review comes out and immediately it no longer sounds good. Glad to see you're not afraid to buck that trend. Measurements do not always tell you what something will sound like. That's in the realm of the human auditory system. ASR is just one of the resources available when trying to make a buying decision but ultimately it should be one's own ears that decide whether or not to keep gear. Yet we know there are those who go by reviews and even though something sounds great to them, they can't sleep if they know it didn't go so well with some reviewer out there whose tastes may be completely different. Or something may sound wonderful but the whole thing is ruined because some reviewer showed that the gear did not measure so well. But then some people have no idea what the weather is like outside unless a weatherman tells them. |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 31, 2022 9:53:45 GMT -5
Emotiva, I just saw (late I know) a second review of XMC-2 on ASR with almost the identical issues as the first. Can you explain the high distortions in those measurements? Is this something you also have? Does RMC-1 measure any differently? Could this be hardware issues for later batches? Or is this software? I saw the old review for RMC-1 which didn’t have the raised distortions in the lowend also a lot of less spikes higher. This is Reference Stereo just to exclude bass management from the issue.. All modes have the same looking measurements.  A THD+N ratio spec of .006% and -84dB 2nd harmonic has no relationship to a statement about ‘high’ distortion. The 2nd harmonic distortion of a speaker system is at least a couple of orders of magnitude higher at normal listening levels. And, the noise floor is no higher than -100dB in the entire audio spectrum; less than -130dB at any frequency at which the ear is sensitive. No one will hear this. No speaker can reproduce it. Perhaps it's better to focus on other things. I want good specs. Nothing wrong with specs as long as the interpretation is reasonable. |
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Post by stuartves on Oct 31, 2022 12:21:39 GMT -5
Does anyone at Emotiva know if and when the Firmware 3.0 is going to be released? It seems each time this question is asked it is met with either vague responses or a wall of silence. I just checked back to page 368 of this Forum to confirm I didn't imagine reading it. I hear about the new upgraded processor that is coming out and I am both excited and apprehensive at the same time....Brent's post back in June sounded reassuring and positive. I understand there was an issue, but I would rather Emotiva be blunt and say It's not happening and we will have to upgrade to solve the problem. I really like my RMC-1 and would accept that if it put to bed all the issues that a lot disgruntled owners have unjustifiably suffered and the deal accommodated all RMC-1(L) owners no matter what country they reside. I am not out to disrespect the company or any individual. All I want is a straightforward honest response.
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Post by 5channels on Oct 31, 2022 12:50:26 GMT -5
Does anyone at Emotiva know if and when the Firmware 3.0 is going to be released? It seems each time this question is asked it is met with either vague responses or a wall of silence. I just checked back to page 368 of this Forum to confirm I didn't imagine reading it. I hear about the new upgraded processor that is coming out and I am both excited and apprehensive at the same time....Brent's post back in June sounded reassuring and positive. I understand there was an issue, but I would rather Emotiva be blunt and say It's not happening and we will have to upgrade to solve the problem. I really like my RMC-1 and would accept that if it put to bed all the issues that a lot disgruntled owners have unjustifiably suffered and the deal accommodated all RMC-1(L) owners no matter what country they reside. I am not out to disrespect the company or any individual. All I want is a straightforward honest response. What? It's no longer June? Well, now I definitively feel left out in the cold by Emotiva. Oh well, there is a first for everything. Maybe if we start asking about v3.1 they will feel compelled to hear us and release v3.0. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 31, 2022 15:01:11 GMT -5
Does anyone at Emotiva know if and when the Firmware 3.0 is going to be released? It seems each time this question is asked it is met with either vague responses or a wall of silence. I just checked back to page 368 of this Forum to confirm I didn't imagine reading it. I hear about the new upgraded processor that is coming out and I am both excited and apprehensive at the same time....Brent's post back in June sounded reassuring and positive. I understand there was an issue, but I would rather Emotiva be blunt and say It's not happening and we will have to upgrade to solve the problem. I really like my RMC-1 and would accept that if it put to bed all the issues that a lot disgruntled owners have unjustifiably suffered and the deal accommodated all RMC-1(L) owners no matter what country they reside. I am not out to disrespect the company or any individual. All I want is a straightforward honest response. So if someone came online and said V3 would be out next week you’d be happy for two reasons; 1–They answered your question, and you ‘know’ when it’s coming out, and 2) It’s next week, and that’s … ‘soon’! Then what happens when it doesn’t come out next week? You’re double angry because ‘they lied’ and told you it would be next week, and you still don’t have new firmware. My point is that if they knew for sure when it was coming out they would tell us, but they don’t, so why keep asking for a date? They cannot give you a ‘ straightforward honest response’ except maybe that ‘it will be out when it’s ready’, which they’ve more or less already said. I think you’re pinning your expectations on something not available. |
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Post by lhracing on Oct 31, 2022 15:02:49 GMT -5
Does anyone at Emotiva know if and when the Firmware 3.0 is going to be released? It seems each time this question is asked it is met with either vague responses or a wall of silence. I just checked back to page 368 of this Forum to confirm I didn't imagine reading it. I hear about the new upgraded processor that is coming out and I am both excited and apprehensive at the same time....Brent's post back in June sounded reassuring and positive. I understand there was an issue, but I would rather Emotiva be blunt and say It's not happening and we will have to upgrade to solve the problem. I really like my RMC-1 and would accept that if it put to bed all the issues that a lot disgruntled owners have unjustifiably suffered and the deal accommodated all RMC-1(L) owners no matter what country they reside. I am not out to disrespect the company or any individual. All I want is a straightforward honest response. What? It's no longer June? Well, now I definitively feel left out in the cold by Emotiva. Oh well, there is a first for everything. Maybe if we start asking about v3.1 they will feel compelled to hear us and release v3.0. On the 10/6/22 podcast it was said that all the G3 processors shipping on the "Bring us you dead" promotion would have the 3.x firmware installed. I am not sure if this actuality happened but if it did, I would think they would making available soon. |
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Post by marcl on Oct 31, 2022 15:33:21 GMT -5
What? It's no longer June? Well, now I definitively feel left out in the cold by Emotiva. Oh well, there is a first for everything. Maybe if we start asking about v3.1 they will feel compelled to hear us and release v3.0. On the 10/6/22 podcast it was said that all the G3 processors shipping on the "Bring us you dead" promotion would have the 3.x firmware installed. I am not sure if this actuality happened but if it did, I would think they would making available soon. That's pretty funny ... can't imagine it happened, for many reasons (some I can't talk about). But it reminds me of the company I worked for that promised the investors they would ship the next product "in September". And so they did ... they kept the September books open until it shipped ... on the 42nd of September! |
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Post by jasonf on Oct 31, 2022 16:19:40 GMT -5
What? It's no longer June? Well, now I definitively feel left out in the cold by Emotiva. Oh well, there is a first for everything. Maybe if we start asking about v3.1 they will feel compelled to hear us and release v3.0. On the 10/6/22 podcast it was said that all the G3 processors shipping on the "Bring us you dead" promotion would have the 3.x firmware installed. I am not sure if this actuality happened but if it did, I would think they would making available soon. I believe the latest processors use a new HDMI chipset/board, which I imagine may be more baked than the support for the older chipset many of us have. |
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Post by aswiss on Oct 31, 2022 16:39:59 GMT -5
I very much doubt Emotiva has any official statement to make on the ASR review. The owner of ASR has been clear in his belief that if you want the absolutely cleanest signal, skip the AVRs and get a dedicated DAC. Hmmm, what's funny is that I own an XMC-2 and use it every day, and I do not recall hearing any distortion as such? It sounds crystal clear to my human ears. The thing is, that the values mostly cannot be heard - but measured. Some people believe in measurements, other trust their ears.
Both can be correct. the RMC-1 had the same bad measuring when Amir tested it - after a FW Update - the values where better.
Same hardware - only the FW was changed - what do these measurement then say about the hardware? I had some other brands here and none sounded as good as the RMC-1 - maybe in the upper price range that would change, but not sure about - not in mood to spend 8 or more grand for something new.
my POV: Amir is for me a bit like an apostle with his disciples - if he says, he cannot recommend this product - lots of people listen. And that is bad for any company.
it only takes 1 bad test, and your product will shown around as a bad product.
you can read the story here, including the second test he did.
and retest on page 46
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Post by aswiss on Oct 31, 2022 16:43:51 GMT -5
What? It's no longer June? Well, now I definitively feel left out in the cold by Emotiva. Oh well, there is a first for everything. Maybe if we start asking about v3.1 they will feel compelled to hear us and release v3.0. On the 10/6/22 podcast it was said that all the G3 processors shipping on the "Bring us you dead" promotion would have the 3.x firmware installed. I am not sure if this actuality happened but if it did, I would think they would making available soon. Just wondering if the "Bring your Dead" thing is the same on Halloween  . |
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Post by geebo on Oct 31, 2022 16:55:20 GMT -5
I very much doubt Emotiva has any official statement to make on the ASR review. The owner of ASR has been clear in his belief that if you want the absolutely cleanest signal, skip the AVRs and get a dedicated DAC. Hmmm, what's funny is that I own an XMC-2 and use it every day, and I do not recall hearing any distortion as such? It sounds crystal clear to my human ears. If you want equipment to measure at home then consult ASR but if you want equipment that sounds good at then consult your ears. |
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 889
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Post by richb on Oct 31, 2022 16:58:35 GMT -5
Hmmm, what's funny is that I own an XMC-2 and use it every day, and I do not recall hearing any distortion as such? It sounds crystal clear to my human ears. The thing is, that the values mostly cannot be heard - but measured. Some people believe in measurements, other trust their ears.
Both can be correct. the RMC-1 had the same bad measuring when Amir tested it - after a FW Update - the values where better.
Same hardware - only the FW was changed - what do these measurement then say about the hardware? I had some other brands here and none sounded as good as the RMC-1 - maybe in the upper price range that would change, but not sure about - not in mood to spend 8 or more grand for something new.
my POV: Amir is for me a bit like an apostle with his disciples - if he says, he cannot recommend this product - lots of people listen. And that is bad for any company.
it only takes 1 bad test, and your product will shown around as a bad product.
you can read the story here, including the second test he did.
and retest on page 46
ASR did find a real problem and there was a fix, so that is good. If looked at from a marketing point of view, there is a SINAD chart for AVR/AVPs, the RMC-1 is in the green.  This is good performance. ASR did not give the RMC-1 recommended status because it did not have working Dirac. It is good for business to keep the performance up, specmanship perhaps, but also good marketing. - Rich |
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Lsc
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 3,424
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Post by Lsc on Oct 31, 2022 17:19:38 GMT -5
I think ASR would be a great marketing tool for Emotiva much like Denon who have embraced ASR.
Anthem was pretty dismissive of ASR which resulted in a scathing review of the AVM60. Since, it appears that Anthem is much more cooperative which resulted in an excellent review of the AVM70.
Yes, I’m saying exactly what I’m saying 😉.
Cooperate and you will be handsomely rewarded. If an issue is found, you will have time to make adjustments to get a glowing review.
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 31, 2022 18:51:21 GMT -5
I think ASR would be a great marketing tool for Emotiva much like Denon who have embraced ASR. Anthem was pretty dismissive of ASR which resulted in a scathing review of the AVM60. Since, it appears that Anthem is much more cooperative which resulted in an excellent review of the AVM70. Yes, I’m saying exactly what I’m saying 😉. Cooperate and you will be handsomely rewarded. If an issue is found, you will have time to make adjustments to get a glowing review. Sounds like ASR is a protection racket. |
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 889
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Post by richb on Oct 31, 2022 19:35:28 GMT -5
I think ASR would be a great marketing tool for Emotiva much like Denon who have embraced ASR. Anthem was pretty dismissive of ASR which resulted in a scathing review of the AVM60. Since, it appears that Anthem is much more cooperative which resulted in an excellent review of the AVM70. Yes, I’m saying exactly what I’m saying 😉. Cooperate and you will be handsomely rewarded. If an issue is found, you will have time to make adjustments to get a glowing review. Sounds like ASR is a protection racket. Most reviewers are given product on consignment and contact the vendor prior to review. This is how the world works. - Rich |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 31, 2022 19:54:58 GMT -5
Sounds like ASR is a protection racket. Most reviewers are given product on consignment and contact the vendor prior to review. This is how the world works. - Rich "Anthem was pretty dismissive of ASR which resulted in a scathing review of the AVM60. Since, it appears that Anthem is much more cooperative which resulted in an excellent review of the AVM70." Thanks for teaching me how the world works. |
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Post by Natural1 on Oct 31, 2022 20:55:57 GMT -5
What? It's no longer June? Well, now I definitively feel left out in the cold by Emotiva. Oh well, there is a first for everything. Maybe if we start asking about v3.1 they will feel compelled to hear us and release v3.0. On the 10/6/22 podcast it was said that all the G3 processors shipping on the "Bring us you dead" promotion would have the 3.x firmware installed. I am not sure if this actuality happened but if it did, I would think they would making available soon. My new RMC-1L did not come with the 3.0 firmware. |
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