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Post by geebo on Nov 15, 2022 13:35:02 GMT -5
OK. I just reloaded the Roger Waters "Amused to Death" blu-ray; using the 2-channel uncompressed 24bit/96kHz track. It up-mixes in both Dolby and DTS, including my height channels - 7.2.6. I'm using FW2.3. Yes mine does too ... well, either I remembered incorrectly and it always was only > 2-channel that didn't work, or they fixed it. However .... phantom center does not work >48KHz ... confirmed. Setting Center=None the center speaker still plays. I just verified the same. Multi channel with center channel content and over 48kHz plays in the center even when center is set to none. But stereo content at 96kHz and 192kHz upmix fine. |
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 15, 2022 14:15:45 GMT -5
Yes mine does too ... well, either I remembered incorrectly and it always was only > 2-channel that didn't work, or they fixed it. However .... phantom center does not work >48KHz ... confirmed. Setting Center=None the center speaker still plays. I just verified the same. Multi channel with center channel content and over 48kHz plays in the center even when center is set to none. But stereo content at 96kHz and 192kHz upmix fine. Have both of you confirmed that center information isn't going to L&R when you set the Center to none? If you turn off your center amp, or pull the input to the center channel amp, will center information appear in L&R when the processor Center channel is set to None? The center level is so low in many multi-channel music recordings that a shift to phantom may not be noticed in these recordings. |
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Post by marcl on Nov 15, 2022 14:35:04 GMT -5
I just verified the same. Multi channel with center channel content and over 48kHz plays in the center even when center is set to none. But stereo content at 96kHz and 192kHz upmix fine. Have both of you confirmed that center information isn't going to L&R when you set the Center to none? If you turn off your center amp, or pull the input to the center channel amp, will center information appear in L&R when the processor Center channel is set to None? The center level is so low in many multi-channel music recordings that a shift to phantom may not be noticed in these recordings. Yes. I used the test tones from my PC with my audio output set to 96/24 and the center output of the XMC-2 unplugged ... it does not downmix the center to the L/R. Set the output of the PC to 48/24 and it does downmix to the L/R. And BTW ... I really don't see why I wouldn't want 5.1 music to upmix to 7.1.4 .... same reason I might like my 2.0 to upmix to 7.1.4. Sometimes the algorithm works well and sometimes it doesn't. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 15, 2022 14:46:47 GMT -5
... And BTW ... I really don't see why I wouldn't want 5.1 music to upmix to 7.1.4 .... same reason I might like my 2.0 to upmix to 7.1.4. Sometimes the algorithm works well and sometimes it doesn't. I agree, if the DSU can upmix a 5.1 video to 7.1.4, why shouldn't that be an option with music too. |
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 15, 2022 15:51:11 GMT -5
Have both of you confirmed that center information isn't going to L&R when you set the Center to none? If you turn off your center amp, or pull the input to the center channel amp, will center information appear in L&R when the processor Center channel is set to None? The center level is so low in many multi-channel music recordings that a shift to phantom may not be noticed in these recordings. Yes. I used the test tones from my PC with my audio output set to 96/24 and the center output of the XMC-2 unplugged ... it does not downmix the center to the L/R. Set the output of the PC to 48/24 and it does downmix to the L/R. And BTW ... I really don't see why I wouldn't want 5.1 music to upmix to 7.1.4 .... same reason I might like my 2.0 to upmix to 7.1.4. Sometimes the algorithm works well and sometimes it doesn't. Got it. Concerning upmixing - Upmixing changes the mix. The mix has image information that is delicate and subject to falling apart when you mess with the mix. An algorithm will not improve the original mix even if one finds it to be pleasant. Sometimes upmixing IS pleasant, but it never tells me more about the recording. I do sometimes upmix 5.1 music and movies to 7.1 if the surround information is just ambiance, and if the disc will allow it. If something like Roger Waters "Amused to Death" was upmixed from 5.1 to 7.1.4, the mix would fall apart. The Waters disc will not allow upmixing of its 5.1 track; good thing; a smart artistic decision. Discreet information needs assigned discreet channels; channels that don't destroy location information - image. The algorithm will do nothing to improve the mix. The algorithm will work best with bad recordings, and multi-channel systems that use dipoles which by their nature have already messed with the mix. Once you turn a filet into baby food, it doesn't matter much if you stir it up. But, the baby food can never be reconstructed into a filet. I don't see why anyone would want upmixing if their multi-channel system and recording can extract all the information necessary to produce the intended audio cocoon with the art reproduced as it was produced. A lot of interesting sound gets thrown out when we mess with the mix. On one hand, you want to remove a center channel with important information. On the other hand, you want to add fake channels. Making the RMC into more of an effects generator is not on my priority list. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Nov 15, 2022 16:10:55 GMT -5
The usual problem I find with upmixing music is that none of the existing upmixers can do it intelligently - in the context of music. For example, a piano would sound really odd if the main tone from a key was in the front left surround, but the harmonics form that note were in the right rear height channel. You will get a similar issue if you try to upmix certain old movies that were recorded in 2.0 People and sounds end up in really odd places... or they get "torn apart" when parts of the same sound end up in different places. This CAN happen with anything... But modern movies that are produced in surround sound are sort of designed to avoid it... Whereas music, especially the sort that includes "natural" instruments, really isn't. My point is that, while I've heard some really impressive music recorded in surround sound... I'm really not fond of music that is upscaled from 2.0 to surround... Sometimes it works out well, with the ambience ending up in the correct places, but... sometimes not... And upscaling that same music to have height channels is going to result in a sort of swooshy blur that I just plain don't find especially pleasing. ... And BTW ... I really don't see why I wouldn't want 5.1 music to upmix to 7.1.4 .... same reason I might like my 2.0 to upmix to 7.1.4. Sometimes the algorithm works well and sometimes it doesn't. I agree, if the DSU can upmix a 5.1 video to 7.1.4, why shouldn't that be an option with music too. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 15, 2022 19:45:34 GMT -5
The usual problem I find with upmixing music is that none of the existing upmixers can do it intelligently - in the context of music. For example, a piano would sound really odd if the main tone from a key was in the front left surround, but the harmonics form that note were in the right rear height channel. You will get a similar issue if you try to upmix certain old movies that were recorded in 2.0 People and sounds end up in really odd places... or they get "torn apart" when parts of the same sound end up in different places. This CAN happen with anything... But modern movies that are produced in surround sound are sort of designed to avoid it... Whereas music, especially the sort that includes "natural" instruments, really isn't. My point is that, while I've heard some really impressive music recorded in surround sound... I'm really not fond of music that is upscaled from 2.0 to surround... Sometimes it works out well, with the ambience ending up in the correct places, but... sometimes not... And upscaling that same music to have height channels is going to result in a sort of swooshy blur that I just plain don't find especially pleasing. I agree, if the DSU can upmix a 5.1 video to 7.1.4, why shouldn't that be an option with music too. I’m not arguing that you should turn it on, just that given the context (5.1 source) and the capabilities of the processor (9.1.6), it should be an option for music as it is with video. Which is to say, in many or most cases I’d agree and probably want to hear the recording the way it was produced. I do sometimes use the DSU with stereo, but maybe that’s more predictable. I also don’t know where the restriction is and why it’s not currently an option. |
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Post by chipless on Nov 15, 2022 23:38:11 GMT -5
I do need to point something out here...
DLBC was not an integral part of Dirac Live when we started selling our current processors... And DLBC is STILL not an integral part of Dirac Live... DLBC is an optional extra upgrade feature which can be purchased for use with Dirac Live on some processors and other devices that support Dirac Live... (And some manufacturers may have chosen to include it now that it seems to be available and working.)
We planned to add support for this upgrade to our processors when we released them... and we still plan to do so. However we never advertised DLBC as "a current feature" on one of our processors.
It's time for my annual check-in regarding DLBC (this time I only waited 11 months before re-inquiring): Have there been any updates about DLBC? |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 16, 2022 0:24:39 GMT -5
I do need to point something out here...
DLBC was not an integral part of Dirac Live when we started selling our current processors... And DLBC is STILL not an integral part of Dirac Live... DLBC is an optional extra upgrade feature which can be purchased for use with Dirac Live on some processors and other devices that support Dirac Live... (And some manufacturers may have chosen to include it now that it seems to be available and working.)
We planned to add support for this upgrade to our processors when we released them... and we still plan to do so. However we never advertised DLBC as "a current feature" on one of our processors.
It's time for my annual check-in regarding DLBC (this time I only waited 11 months before re-inquiring): Have there been any updates about DLBC? If it’s actually been a year, then yes, there is news that includes DLBC, the discussion is here —> the G4P / + Announcement |
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Post by markc on Nov 16, 2022 6:16:15 GMT -5
I’m confident we will see new FW within weeks, not months. Cheers, Dave. "weeks" depends on how many weeks! 42 weeks = 10 months = 300 days already Lest we all forget, we have been told categorically that the upcoming firmware (that was accidentally released and immediately withdrawn) that is taking it's sweet time to re-materialise is not even designed to correct some of the important faults our processors have. |
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs 
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,033
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Post by cawgijoe on Nov 16, 2022 8:19:35 GMT -5
I’m confident we will see new FW within weeks, not months. Cheers, Dave. "weeks" depends on how many weeks! 42 weeks = 10 months = 300 days already Lest we all forget, we have been told categorically that the upcoming firmware (that was accidentally released and immediately withdrawn) that is taking it's sweet time to re-materialise is not even designed to correct some of the important faults our processors have. They are way behind, definitely, but they are working the issue(s). We shall see what the fixes actually are. It's in Emotiva's best interest to release the new firmware as soon as the beta testers are good with it and it's viable. |
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Post by webmst007 on Nov 16, 2022 13:20:16 GMT -5
3.1 had landed.......
Dah dah da da......boom boom boom boom....dah dah da da.....( Moon landing music.,..mmmmmm..,)🥳🥳😁🤓🤪☝️🏊♀️🏊🤧🤧🤧🤧🔊🤧🧐🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊👋👋
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Post by 5channels on Nov 16, 2022 13:28:26 GMT -5
I was just about to say that NASA will be on it's way to the moon again before the next FW release...looks like I was right anyway. Nasa beat Emo by a few hour
Let's hope this is the one and we don't hear "Franklin, we have a problem"
Happy Lift-Off folks!!!!!
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Post by webmst007 on Nov 16, 2022 13:31:16 GMT -5
At page 434 on this thread perhaps it's time for a fresh start. New thread admins 🥳👍💯
Oh sorry for the over excitement ☺️
It's 5am here and the dog just woke me up to go out so I'm a bit half in half out....🤪
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Nov 16, 2022 13:46:24 GMT -5
THIS THREAD IS NOW ANCIENT HISTORY...Firmware Version 3.1 has now been released... With several major improvements... And more to follow...
And a new thread to go with it:
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NicS
Sensei
Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
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Post by NicS on Nov 16, 2022 14:49:52 GMT -5
Yikes....
I'm diving in....
See you on the new thread..... DEAD OR ALIVE!!!!
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Post by Topend on Nov 16, 2022 16:23:55 GMT -5
Seems like some are giving up all hope of FW3.0. I reached out to Emotiva and their response was that it is coming. I won’t repeat the information they shared but they have made changes that should see improvements with HDMI. I’m confident we will see new FW within weeks, not months. Cheers, Dave. Looks like I got it wrong. It was days, not weeks. Dave. |
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