XPA gen3 vs Anthem MCA225

[hsamwel]

I have a XPA-11 gen3 with 3x300W and 4 2x65W amps.
I have been quite satisfied with it, especially for home theater stuff.
Very dynamic and powerful sound. But something has not been ok with my
hifi stereo sound.
I have RMC-1 and SVS Ultra towers. Both with a tendecy to detail, neutral
but almost bright sound because of all the details.
Some music have quite a bit of siblance and sounds a bit bright with XPA.

I had an opportunity to try out a friends amp he’s selling, Anthem MCA225.
It’s a 2x225W amp.
Wow what a difference for the better. Much warmer, softer sound. Siblance
is mostly gone. Midrange is fuller and sounds more natrual.
No loss of detail though.
I have read that amps make no or little difference if made right, in my case it did.
Almost like the difference between bad digital (hard and edgy) and good analog
(warm and natrual) recording.

Anthem seems a better match with RMC-1 and SVS ultra.
Comments or ideas?

[tropicallutefisk]

All that matters is that you like what you hear. Congrats! Sounds like you’ve made a great improvement in your system.

[thezone]

Ok I've got my flame suite ready. I would hazard a guess that the Anthem is colouring the sound, much like Marantz like to do and the Emotiva is exposing other weaknesses in the chain. Sorry, don't meant to upset. I have been down this path many many times.

[Lsc]

It seems pretty simple. The Anthem with the toroidal transformer is superior to the Emotiva amp.

As I have said in other posts, as good as my old XPR2 was my new ATI 4003 is clearly superior. I don’t know if it’s because my 4003 is fully balanced but it just sounds cleaner and better.

There is synergy and their is sometimes superior products. Anthem makes great products.

This isn’t to say Emotiva is a bad amp, not even close. But Emotiva haven’t been able to scale their product line to compete with all higher end products. They can compete with a lot of them, just not all.

[creimes]

In the end if your happy that's is what matters most, I am financially only able to spend so much so i will only be able to own such and such brands but my system sounds amazing to me and my ears so i'm happy as a pig in sh** It's been talked about so many times how more expensive gear seems to somehow most of the time sound better ?? no sure if I'm wording that right, I myself don't design such stuff so I'm not sure if actually spending more incrementally ca make it sound better, you would think that a certain point of cost it would diminish no matter how much the amp cost. I could presume some of our findings could be altered emotionally from the purchase but who knows.

I remember back when i had my Yamaha receiver and purchased two UPA-1 amps, I lived in a duplex so volume did not get too high and I immediately noticed an improvement whereas some that have done the same thing have noticed no improvement, for me it sounded less sluggish and masked than with just using the receivers amplifier section, the sound was more precise and clean and also more open, since then I have always used external amplification but any amp I have owned hasn't sounded drastically or even much better/different than the other.

With all things audio YMMV

Chad

[Lsc]

The general rule of thumb is if you can hear the difference and it’s worth it to you then you may want to upgrade. High end audio is very strange in that once you feel things don’t sound right or as good for you, it’s hard to listen to music.

2 channel audio is much more revealing than 5.1 and up. And as I learned with the ATI amp, there is tangible differences in amps. It’s not as big a difference as speakers but still....for some it’s worth upgrading.

Also amps are expensive. So once you look beyond Emotiva’s offerings, it’s shocking how much more a decent amp costs.

[hsamwel]

May 29, 2020 17:50:52 GMT -5 tropicallutefisk said:

All that matters is that you like what you hear. Congrats! Sounds like you’ve made a great improvement in your system.

Thanks! Yes, I decided to buy it.. Got it for about half the asking price of a new.
So I’m pretty excited!

[hsamwel]

May 29, 2020 20:31:37 GMT -5 thezone said:

Ok I've got my flame suite ready. I would hazard a guess that the Anthem is colouring the sound, much like Marantz like to do and the Emotiva is exposing other weaknesses in the chain. Sorry, don't meant to upset. I have been down this path many many times.

Haha no problem. Not upset at all, wouldn’t put up the post if I didn’t want to hear comments
from both sides of ”fence”.. 

The problem it seems (to me) is rather not a weakness per say but rather a matching issue.
I have RMC-1 which is not a bad sounding prepro. SVS Ultra towers also are pretty good performers.
I have clean power and everything connected with balanced cables.

To me if feels like.. Put in neutral to bright (high detail) sounding equipment in all stages you’ll get
what you put in. But yes, of course you have ”weakness” in the sense that you get what you pay for.
I could have bought speakers for ALOT more money and probably had a little bit better control
in the siblance frequency area.

[hsamwel]

May 29, 2020 21:18:41 GMT -5 Lsc said:

It seems pretty simple. The Anthem with the toroidal transformer is superior to the Emotiva amp.

As I have said in other posts, as good as my old XPR2 was my new ATI 4003 is clearly superior. I don’t know if it’s because my 4003 is fully balanced but it just sounds cleaner and better.

There is synergy and their is sometimes superior products. Anthem makes great products.

This isn’t to say Emotiva is a bad amp, not even close. But Emotiva haven’t been able to scale their product line to compete with all higher end products. They can compete with a lot of them, just not all.

That’s my take on it to. For the prices Emotiva ask, their gear is often top of the line.

Just to not compare apples and oranges here.. In Sweden there’s an almost double asking price for the Anthem.
Don’t know the price difference in the states though. But as Emotiva gear is super cheap I can imagine the
price difference being even bigger.
The Anthem actually cost just a bit under a DR2 here in Sweden. XPA-2 about half of DR2.

[hsamwel]

May 30, 2020 2:42:29 GMT -5 Lsc said:

The general rule of thumb is if you can hear the difference and it’s worth it to you then you may want to upgrade. High end audio is very strange in that once you feel things don’t sound right or as good for you, it’s hard to listen to music.

2 channel audio is much more revealing than 5.1 and up. And as I learned with the ATI amp, there is tangible differences in amps. It’s not as big a difference as speakers but still....for some it’s worth upgrading.

Also amps are expensive. So once you look beyond Emotiva’s offerings, it’s shocking how much more a decent amp costs.

Yes, but as you say.. Price do rise at a staggering rate just to get a ”little” better gear.

[hsamwel]

May 29, 2020 22:26:12 GMT -5 creimes said:

In the end if your happy that's is what matters most, I am financially only able to spend so much so i will only be able to own such and such brands but my system sounds amazing to me and my ears so i'm happy as a pig in sh** It's been talked about so many times how more expensive gear seems to somehow most of the time sound better ?? no sure if I'm wording that right, I myself don't design such stuff so I'm not sure if actually spending more incrementally ca make it sound better, you would think that a certain point of cost it would diminish no matter how much the amp cost. I could presume some of our findings could be altered emotionally from the purchase but who knows.

I remember back when i had my Yamaha receiver and purchased two UPA-1 amps, I lived in a duplex so volume did not get too high and I immediately noticed an improvement whereas some that have done the same thing have noticed no improvement, for me it sounded less sluggish and masked than with just using the receivers amplifier section, the sound was more precise and clean and also more open, since then I have always used external amplification but any amp I have owned hasn't sounded drastically or even much better/different than the other.

With all things audio YMMV

Chad

Yes, if you’re happy with your gear I recommend not ”search” for ”wrongs” in the sound.. Also not listen
to what others say about the sound.. Once you get into the ”perfect hifi” game, you’ll never be satisfied.
You will always hear small things maybe others don’t even hear. 

To me though it’s what it’s all about.. Upgrading, and finding the audio nirvana 

But since upgrading to SVS Ultras and RMC-1 I have been mostly satisfied. But started to listen to
some new kind of music lately, recommended by a friend, and it did not sound as good.
Changing the amp, everything fell into place.. I even sounds better with the music I listen to normally.
Cleaner, fuller and more natural.

[Lsc]

May 30, 2020 5:18:03 GMT -5 hsamwel said:

Yes, if you’re happy with your gear I recommend not ”search” for ”wrongs” in the sound.. Also not listen
to what others say about the sound.. Once you get into the ”perfect hifi” game, you’ll never be satisfied.
You will always hear small things maybe others don’t even hear. 

To me though it’s what it’s all about.. Upgrading, and finding the audio nirvana 

But since upgrading to SVS Ultras and RMC-1 I have been mostly satisfied. But started to listen to
some new kind of music lately, recommended by a friend, and it did not sound as good.
Changing the amp, everything fell into place.. I even sounds better with the music I listen to normally.
Cleaner, fuller and more natural.

So did you end up buying the Anthem?

I was thinking of buying the Emotiva amp that you have for surrounds and Atmos but I’m pretty tapped out after upgrading my main speakers and the ATI amp for LCR channels.

I have found my audio nirvana in both 2 channel and movies. Especially 2 channel, it took a while but I’m there now. Granted I wanted the Revel Salons but the F228Be will work despite not looking too nice, it sounds great. I’m not gonna chase that last 5-10% for 200%+ in cost.

My 9.2.4 has several areas that I can upgrade but when I watch movies, I’m thoroughly satisfied. I prioritized 2 channel first but still wanted great sound for movies. So, while I still can upgrade my center, wides, 2nd sub, amps for surrounds and ceilings, I’m good for now .

Watching the Invisible man, the waves in the ocean at the beginning of the movie sounds real. It’s a great sound demo for your system.

[vcautokid]

Congratulations! You found 2 amplifiers that float your boat given their purpose of use. The XPA-11 goes to the plate and hits a triple for you. But in 2 channel, the sound is more appealing to you with the highs you enjoy more. So in 2 channel, the Anthem sounds like a Home Run! I would say go for it. Nothing like trying something and finding it and not going for it. Drives me nuts at least. I like the Anthem products. They sound very well. It is definitely different than the Emotiva. They both answer the audio questions well, differently.

[creimes]

May 30, 2020 5:18:03 GMT -5 hsamwel said:

May 29, 2020 22:26:12 GMT -5 creimes said:

In the end if your happy that's is what matters most, I am financially only able to spend so much so i will only be able to own such and such brands but my system sounds amazing to me and my ears so i'm happy as a pig in sh** It's been talked about so many times how more expensive gear seems to somehow most of the time sound better ?? no sure if I'm wording that right, I myself don't design such stuff so I'm not sure if actually spending more incrementally ca make it sound better, you would think that a certain point of cost it would diminish no matter how much the amp cost. I could presume some of our findings could be altered emotionally from the purchase but who knows.

I remember back when i had my Yamaha receiver and purchased two UPA-1 amps, I lived in a duplex so volume did not get too high and I immediately noticed an improvement whereas some that have done the same thing have noticed no improvement, for me it sounded less sluggish and masked than with just using the receivers amplifier section, the sound was more precise and clean and also more open, since then I have always used external amplification but any amp I have owned hasn't sounded drastically or even much better/different than the other.

With all things audio YMMV

Chad

Yes, if you’re happy with your gear I recommend not ”search” for ”wrongs” in the sound.. Also not listen
to what others say about the sound.. Once you get into the ”perfect hifi” game, you’ll never be satisfied.
You will always hear small things maybe others don’t even hear. 

To me though it’s what it’s all about.. Upgrading, and finding the audio nirvana 

But since upgrading to SVS Ultras and RMC-1 I have been mostly satisfied. But started to listen to
some new kind of music lately, recommended by a friend, and it did not sound as good.
Changing the amp, everything fell into place.. I even sounds better with the music I listen to normally.
Cleaner, fuller and more natural.

It's like the constant "debate" if you would have it about class d amps, some hate them and others love them, owning both the Outlaw 7000X and D-Sonic amp right now I have done some back and forth and the difference is very minimal if at all, especially given I have to disconnect one amp and connect the other amp and then listen again, it's hard to not expect a difference rather than see if I can just hear one, the D-Sonic has more power so if anything may go louder before introducing distortion but both amps have enough power to get to loud listening levels.

I think the best way to go is a blind comparison, having someone else doing the changes or not do the change and the other listening to see if they can discern any difference but that isn't a easy thing to do haha.

Oh and also if Emotiva is listening the Outlaw Model 7000X for $979 needs some competition, this amp is amazing and the features it has for it's price is hard to beat, remember those days when Emotiva offered this pricing, not sure how outlaw does it but a 7 channel amp with XLR inputs and a decent power spec is why I went with Outlaw, for example the A-500 to XPA-5 has a price difference of $1100, many want a little extra over the A-500 but can't afford the XPA series any longer.

Cheers,
Chad

[hsamwel]

May 30, 2020 7:06:48 GMT -5 Lsc said:

May 30, 2020 5:18:03 GMT -5 hsamwel said:

Yes, if you’re happy with your gear I recommend not ”search” for ”wrongs” in the sound.. Also not listen
to what others say about the sound.. Once you get into the ”perfect hifi” game, you’ll never be satisfied.
You will always hear small things maybe others don’t even hear. 

To me though it’s what it’s all about.. Upgrading, and finding the audio nirvana 

But since upgrading to SVS Ultras and RMC-1 I have been mostly satisfied. But started to listen to
some new kind of music lately, recommended by a friend, and it did not sound as good.
Changing the amp, everything fell into place.. I even sounds better with the music I listen to normally.
Cleaner, fuller and more natural.

So did you end up buying the Anthem?

I was thinking of buying the Emotiva amp that you have for surrounds and Atmos but I’m pretty tapped out after upgrading my main speakers and the ATI amp for LCR channels.

I have found my audio nirvana in both 2 channel and movies. Especially 2 channel, it took a while but I’m there now. Granted I wanted the Revel Salons but the F228Be will work despite not looking too nice, it sounds great. I’m not gonna chase that last 5-10% for 200%+ in cost.

My 9.2.4 has several areas that I can upgrade but when I watch movies, I’m thoroughly satisfied. I prioritized 2 channel first but still wanted great sound for movies. So, while I still can upgrade my center, wides, 2nd sub, amps for surrounds and ceilings, I’m good for now .

Watching the Invisible man, the waves in the ocean at the beginning of the movie sounds real. It’s a great sound demo for your system.

Yes I did!

The XPA gen3 is a great HT amp. Configurable from 1 to 14 amps.. The smaller stereo amps are pretty
good and have no problem delivering powerful and dynamic sound. As long as you don’t drive them
with large full range speakers. I’m satisfied with the sound I’m getting for multi channel. Also Dirac will
give me another sound upgrade without additional cost.

I’m thinking about bi-amping with the two 300W amps from XPA and Anthem handling the upper part.
160hz is the bass crossover on the ultras.

I was actually thinking of buying ALOT more expensive speakers than SVS Ultras about two years ago.
I ended up with them because I got a really great deal. About 30% off for hifi show demo speakers.
Also they sounded really good when I demoed them.
I checked out XTZ Divine www.xtzsound.com/product/divine-series

Invisible Man has not been released in Sweden yet. I look forward to testing it.

[megash0n]

May 30, 2020 7:06:48 GMT -5 Lsc said:

May 30, 2020 5:18:03 GMT -5 hsamwel said:

Yes, if you’re happy with your gear I recommend not ”search” for ”wrongs” in the sound.. Also not listen
to what others say about the sound.. Once you get into the ”perfect hifi” game, you’ll never be satisfied.
You will always hear small things maybe others don’t even hear. 

To me though it’s what it’s all about.. Upgrading, and finding the audio nirvana 

But since upgrading to SVS Ultras and RMC-1 I have been mostly satisfied. But started to listen to
some new kind of music lately, recommended by a friend, and it did not sound as good.
Changing the amp, everything fell into place.. I even sounds better with the music I listen to normally.
Cleaner, fuller and more natural.

So did you end up buying the Anthem?

I was thinking of buying the Emotiva amp that you have for surrounds and Atmos but I’m pretty tapped out after upgrading my main speakers and the ATI amp for LCR channels.

I have found my audio nirvana in both 2 channel and movies. Especially 2 channel, it took a while but I’m there now. Granted I wanted the Revel Salons but the F228Be will work despite not looking too nice, it sounds great. I’m not gonna chase that last 5-10% for 200%+ in cost.

My 9.2.4 has several areas that I can upgrade but when I watch movies, I’m thoroughly satisfied. I prioritized 2 channel first but still wanted great sound for movies. So, while I still can upgrade my center, wides, 2nd sub, amps for surrounds and ceilings, I’m good for now .

Watching the Invisible man, the waves in the ocean at the beginning of the movie sounds real. It’s a great sound demo for your system.

I watched that last week as well. The ocean did sound awesome.

[Stephen Park]

May 30, 2020 9:22:18 GMT -5 hsamwel said:

May 30, 2020 7:06:48 GMT -5 Lsc said:

So did you end up buying the Anthem?

I was thinking of buying the Emotiva amp that you have for surrounds and Atmos but I’m pretty tapped out after upgrading my main speakers and the ATI amp for LCR channels.

I have found my audio nirvana in both 2 channel and movies. Especially 2 channel, it took a while but I’m there now. Granted I wanted the Revel Salons but the F228Be will work despite not looking too nice, it sounds great. I’m not gonna chase that last 5-10% for 200%+ in cost.

My 9.2.4 has several areas that I can upgrade but when I watch movies, I’m thoroughly satisfied. I prioritized 2 channel first but still wanted great sound for movies. So, while I still can upgrade my center, wides, 2nd sub, amps for surrounds and ceilings, I’m good for now .

Watching the Invisible man, the waves in the ocean at the beginning of the movie sounds real. It’s a great sound demo for your system.

Yes I did!

The XPA gen3 is a great HT amp. Configurable from 1 to 14 amps.. The smaller stereo amps are pretty
good and have no problem delivering powerful and dynamic sound. As long as you don’t drive them
with large full range speakers. I’m satisfied with the sound I’m getting for multi channel. Also Dirac will
give me another sound upgrade without additional cost.

I’m thinking about bi-amping with the two 300W amps from XPA and Anthem handling the upper part.
160hz is the bass crossover on the ultras.

I was actually thinking of buying ALOT more expensive speakers than SVS Ultras about two years ago.
I ended up with them because I got a really great deal. About 30% off for hifi show demo speakers.
Also they sounded really good when I demoed them.
I checked out XTZ Divine www.xtzsound.com/product/divine-series

Invisible Man has not been released in Sweden yet. I look forward to testing it.

Sorry for quote on this old thread...
I already ordered XPA-10 G3 for replace my Rotel RMB-1585 Power amp, and it will drive my new B&W 702 S3 front speakers bi-amping for use 4 channel, and B&W 705 S3 surround bi-amping for use 4 channel, B&W HTM71 S3 center speaker bi-amping for last 2 channel. How about your XPA G3? Is sounds good? Are you satisfied by this A/B class amp? My Rotel is D class amp and it works nicely, but I am very curious for this H topology A/B class for use home theather, also for only Stereo Hi-Fi mode.
Mine is on the way now and I will get it  before Christmas, but just want your opinion for this amplifer!

[hsamwel]

Dec 14, 2022 11:21:00 GMT -5 Stephen Park said:

May 30, 2020 9:22:18 GMT -5 hsamwel said:

Yes I did!

The XPA gen3 is a great HT amp. Configurable from 1 to 14 amps.. The smaller stereo amps are pretty
good and have no problem delivering powerful and dynamic sound. As long as you don’t drive them
with large full range speakers. I’m satisfied with the sound I’m getting for multi channel. Also Dirac will
give me another sound upgrade without additional cost.

I’m thinking about bi-amping with the two 300W amps from XPA and Anthem handling the upper part.
160hz is the bass crossover on the ultras.

I was actually thinking of buying ALOT more expensive speakers than SVS Ultras about two years ago.
I ended up with them because I got a really great deal. About 30% off for hifi show demo speakers.
Also they sounded really good when I demoed them.
I checked out XTZ Divine www.xtzsound.com/product/divine-series

Invisible Man has not been released in Sweden yet. I look forward to testing it.

Sorry for quote on this old thread...
I already ordered XPA-10 G3 for replace my Rotel RMB-1585 Power amp, and it will drive my new B&W 702 S3 front speakers bi-amping for use 4 channel, and B&W 705 S3 surround bi-amping for use 4 channel, B&W HTM71 S3 center speaker bi-amping for last 2 channel. How about your XPA G3? Is sounds good? Are you satisfied by this A/B class amp? My Rotel is D class amp and it works nicely, but I am very curious for this H topology A/B class for use home theather, also for only Stereo Hi-Fi mode.
Mine is on the way now and I will get it  before Christmas, but just want your opinion for this amplifer!

The sound is really good in surrounds. Very dynamic and a bit forward. Which is a good thing regarding surrounds and atmos speakers.
I think it also works good for my center, especially since I have the full 300W module driving it.

However, I always felt something was wrong in HiFi/Stereo.. So after buying a friends Anthem amp the stereo sound just went from
OK to great.

For the main 5.x speakers, fronts, center and side surrounds, I would have the big module drive them. The small 65/100W module
works really good with atmos and surround back.. Maybe also front wide as there’s not alot coming from them.
Just keep the small module from producing any bass lower than 80hz and you’ll probably be satisfied.

[Stephen Park]

Dec 14, 2022 11:50:16 GMT -5 hsamwel said:

The sound is really good in surrounds. Very dynamic and a bit forward. Which is a good thing regarding surrounds and atmos speakers.
I think it also works good for my center, especially since I have the full 300W module driving it.

However, I always felt something was wrong in HiFi/Stereo.. So after buying a friends Anthem amp the stereo sound just went from
OK to great.

Wow. My main concern is Hifi/Stereo mode....
Center/Surround is Ok, my surround back and Atmos speakers are driven by Bas-X A700 amplifier, it is all right, there is not much I can count on for clarity or whatever, because those channels are basically sound effects only. But what disturb a lot to me is that that you said "felt something wrong in Hifi/Stereo"!!!!
Anthem amp is probably good, but it's price is much high, 5ch amp is 3.4K, so 10ch will be 7K, almost 3 time expensive...!
Of course there is 8ch storm audio amplifier for over 12K...!

Ok, hope that this XPA is better than what I use now, Rotel D-Class....
I will report back when it arrive and finish setting...! Thanks for your answer!!

[hsamwel]

Dec 15, 2022 4:48:26 GMT -5 Stephen Park said:

Dec 14, 2022 11:50:16 GMT -5 hsamwel said:

The sound is really good in surrounds. Very dynamic and a bit forward. Which is a good thing regarding surrounds and atmos speakers.
I think it also works good for my center, especially since I have the full 300W module driving it.

However, I always felt something was wrong in HiFi/Stereo.. So after buying a friends Anthem amp the stereo sound just went from
OK to great.

Wow. My main concern is Hifi/Stereo mode....
Center/Surround is Ok, my surround back and Atmos speakers are driven by Bas-X A700 amplifier, it is all right, there is not much I can count on for clarity or whatever, because those channels are basically sound effects only. But what disturb a lot to me is that that you said "felt something wrong in Hifi/Stereo"!!!!
Anthem amp is probably good, but it's price is much high, 5ch amp is 3.4K, so 10ch will be 7K, almost 3 time expensive...!
Of course there is 8ch storm audio amplifier for over 12K...!

Ok, hope that this XPA is better than what I use now, Rotel D-Class....
I will report back when it arrive and finish setting...! Thanks for your answer!!

Well.. At first it sounded amazing.. Then when settling down I started to listen to different kind of music.
Especially rock, acoustic and singer/songwriter music. I noticed some things I didn’t like.

It could very well be that these things will not bother you.. We all feel differently to certain frequencies.
Also you don’t have the same speakers I have so there’s another difference as well.

The thing is first time I noticed something was wrong, I wasn’t even at home. I was at a friends, listening to
some of my favorite songs. They sounded more natural. Not more bass, clearer or anything like that. Just felt
more real. When I got home I felt that hard digital type of detail again.

It wasn’t until I had the chance to try out a friends Anthem amp in my system I really felt it sounded good
enough for me.
It’s hard to explain but the nearest thing I can think of is the sharpness feature of a TV. When set to normal
the picture looks normal and when you turn it up you get that fake sharpness with the shiny edges.
The XPA to me felt like it had that hard fake kind of sharpness to it’s sound. That is in combination with my setup.