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Post by leonski on Apr 22, 2022 18:54:24 GMT -5
Good.....Progress with a complicated machine is always to the good. Keep in mind that audio wavelenths are VERY short. 3000hz is less than a 5" wavelength.....so 1/2 of that in mic movement COULD make a difference. A 'little bloat'? What does that mean. If I mentioned bloat I would be referring to a peak from maybe 100hz to 300hz......something like that. Make it sound 'thick'? www.izotope.com/en/learn/6-tips-to-improve-the-tonal-balance-of-a-mix.htmlFrom an article aimed at recording engineering types.....but might still have some useful information...
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 25, 2022 7:51:37 GMT -5
Good.....Progress with a complicated machine is always to the good. Keep in mind that audio wavelenths are VERY short. 3000hz is less than a 5" wavelength.....so 1/2 of that in mic movement COULD make a difference. A 'little bloat'? What does that mean. If I mentioned bloat I would be referring to a peak from maybe 100hz to 300hz......something like that. Make it sound 'thick'? www.izotope.com/en/learn/6-tips-to-improve-the-tonal-balance-of-a-mix.htmlFrom an article aimed at recording engineering types.....but might still have some useful information... The bloat was due to L/R curve being set to +10.5 dB. I brought this down to +8dB (my preferred Harman curve) and itβs better. Have you run Dirac with the new update yet?
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Post by ttocs on Apr 27, 2022 12:06:27 GMT -5
Just thought I'd share this nifty item. I had a coupon from Guitar Center that was about to expire so I ordered a couple of these Musician's Gear Tripod Mic Stand with Telescoping Boom Item #:1274228076895 POS #: 107218851. It has a boom that extends to 48", which is a little more than the boom stand I've been using. The longer boom helps with some mic positions when running Dirac. The stand is $39.99. Ordering two invoked a discount for ordering multiples, then there was another weird discount I can't explain, but I'm not complaining, so the coupon paid for it all. The tripod legs are long enough so when the boom is fully extended, and the boom is positioned inline with one of the legs, the stand doesn't tip over.
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Post by leonski on Apr 27, 2022 13:35:17 GMT -5
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Post by marcl on Apr 27, 2022 14:22:39 GMT -5
Just thought I'd share this nifty item. I had a coupon from Guitar Center that was about to expire so I ordered a couple of these Musician's Gear Tripod Mic Stand with Telescoping Boom Item #:1274228076895 POS #: 107218851. It has a boom that extends to 48", which is a little more than the boom stand I've been using. The longer boom helps with some mic positions when running Dirac. The stand is $39.99. Ordering two invoked a discount for ordering multiples, then there was another weird discount I can't explain, but I'm not complaining, so the coupon paid for it all. The tripod legs are long enough so when the boom is fully extended, and the boom is positioned inline with one of the legs, the stand doesn't tip over. Pretty much like the one I use. And if you need more reach ... screw this jawn on the end ... www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CUR5DU2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
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Post by ttocs on Apr 27, 2022 18:16:47 GMT -5
But isn't this the item which requires the user to wear a helmet to protect against injury to your forehead?
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 27, 2022 18:42:41 GMT -5
This is pretty cool. I could use this for a little extra reach.
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Post by marcl on Apr 27, 2022 19:15:24 GMT -5
But isn't this the item which requires the user to wear a helmet to protect against injury to your forehead? No. No springs attached!
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Post by richter250 on Apr 28, 2022 9:20:20 GMT -5
marci, what's the deal, are you slacking? Surely you have run the new Dirac update like 20 times by now. π. We need your insight!
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Post by marcl on Apr 28, 2022 10:36:49 GMT -5
marci, what's the deal, are you slacking? Surely you have run the new Dirac update like 20 times by now. π. We need your insight! hahahaha yeah one would think. But here's my story: April 1 - left for Costa Rica, delayed by airplane issues and weather, didn't arrive until the 2nd April 3-16 - touring six locations in Costa Rica birding and photographing ... 17800 photos! Mild cold for a couple days in the second week April 17 - tested Positive for Covid at the airport, returned to the hotel for mandatory 7 day quarantine. Wife tested Negative so sent her home on the 19th April 18-23 - room service, Netflix, culled 17800 photos down to 6400 for final review April 24 - coaxed Health Ministry Doctor into issuing Certificate of Recovery on her day off April 25 - driver didn't show at 3:30am, got a taxi, after some discussion convinced American Airlines they should let me fly home. April 26 - slept ALL DAY! Just been hangin' since then. So ... I have time today and tomorrow and a quiet house. I will test it first using previous measurements, and then do a full calibration with new measurements. I looked at the new interface and it's confusing. I think it's just a ploy to get people to use bass boost so they don't say "Dirac killed my bass!". I expect I'll end up using my usual target curves. But ... they may have made algorithm changes too ... you never know.
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Post by richter250 on Apr 28, 2022 10:43:02 GMT -5
OMG! So I was right. You WERE slacking! π Hope the visit to Costa Rica was fun enough to make up for all that!
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Post by tngiloy on Apr 28, 2022 13:56:51 GMT -5
marci, what's the deal, are you slacking? Surely you have run the new Dirac update like 20 times by now. π. We need your insight! hahahaha yeah one would think. But here's my story: April 1 - left for Costa Rica, delayed by airplane issues and weather, didn't arrive until the 2nd April 3-16 - touring six locations in Costa Rica birding and photographing ... 17800 photos! Mild cold for a couple days in the second week April 17 - tested Positive for Covid at the airport, returned to the hotel for mandatory 7 day quarantine. Wife tested Negative so sent her home on the 19th April 18-23 - room service, Netflix, culled 17800 photos down to 6400 for final review April 24 - coaxed Health Ministry Doctor into issuing Certificate of Recovery on her day off April 25 - driver didn't show at 3:30am, got a taxi, after some discussion convinced American Airlines they should let me fly home. April 26 - slept ALL DAY! Just been hangin' since then. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> So ... I have time today and tomorrow and a quiet house. I will test it first using previous measurements, and then do a full calibration with new measurements. I looked at the new interface and it's confusing. I think it's just a ploy to get people to use bass boost so they don't say "Dirac killed my bass!". I expect I'll end up using my usual target curves. But ... they may have made algorithm changes too ... you never know. Excuses, excuses, excuses. Next thing you'll be telling us is that your dog ate your microphone.
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 28, 2022 15:21:38 GMT -5
marci, what's the deal, are you slacking? Surely you have run the new Dirac update like 20 times by now. π. We need your insight! I agree! Iβm 2 measurements ahead of him π¬
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Post by marcl on Apr 29, 2022 11:03:04 GMT -5
I just did a simple test, expecting predictable results, which is what I got. - Installed DL 3.3.0 and using same measurements and target curves from previous calibration, downloaded new filters.
- With DL 3.3.0, loaded measurements from previous calibrations but used new DL algorithm suggested curves, downloaded new filters.
Listened to music with all three filter sets (Norah Jones, Come Away With Me album). Previous calibration and new filters with 3.3.0 and same measurements and curves sounded identical. Filters made with new DL algorithm curves sounded a bit bass-heavy and colored in the mid-bass, with less presence in the vocals. Measured all three filter sets. Previous calibration and new filters with DL 3.3.0 measured essentially identical. New filters with DL new algorithm curves reflected the bass boost and treble roll-off that was evident in the curves and the listening. One thing to note is that DL did not correct the huge modal resonance that I have around 40Hz with my L/R Fronts. Totally weird ... this is the MOST important thing DL does, but clearly in a surrender to marketing and the misguided minds of the general public ... they left +10db bass boost from the resonance. Okay so this was all totally predictable. It's nothing more than another way to push the bass boost/treble tilt idea. You can do it yourself if you really want to. No magic here. Also checked phase, impulse, etc. No differences.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Apr 29, 2022 13:20:19 GMT -5
I just did a simple test, expecting predictable results, which is what I got. - Installed DL 3.3.0 and using same measurements and target curves from previous calibration, downloaded new filters.
- With DL 3.3.0, loaded measurements from previous calibrations but used new DL algorithm suggested curves, downloaded new filters.
Listened to music with all three filter sets (Norah Jones, Come Away With Me album). Previous calibration and new filters with 3.3.0 and same measurements and curves sounded identical. Filters made with new DL algorithm curves sounded a bit bass-heavy and colored in the mid-bass, with less presence in the vocals. Measured all three filter sets. Previous calibration and new filters with DL 3.3.0 measured essentially identical. New filters with DL new algorithm curves reflected the bass boost and treble roll-off that was evident in the curves and the listening. One thing to note is that DL did not correct the huge modal resonance that I have around 40Hz with my L/R Fronts. Totally weird ... this is the MOST important thing DL does, but clearly in a surrender to marketing and the misguided minds of the general public ... they left +10db bass boost from the resonance. Okay so this was all totally predictable. It's nothing more than another way to push the bass boost/treble tilt idea. You can do it yourself if you really want to. No magic here. Also checked phase, impulse, etc. No differences. View AttachmentI have noticed that when I use the new way to set targets all seems to work well. But after saving the project then reloading, the targets you created with the new method are at some levels other than what you set. Are you seeing this?
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Post by marcl on Apr 29, 2022 14:44:03 GMT -5
I just did a simple test, expecting predictable results, which is what I got. - Installed DL 3.3.0 and using same measurements and target curves from previous calibration, downloaded new filters.
- With DL 3.3.0, loaded measurements from previous calibrations but used new DL algorithm suggested curves, downloaded new filters.
Listened to music with all three filter sets (Norah Jones, Come Away With Me album). Previous calibration and new filters with 3.3.0 and same measurements and curves sounded identical. Filters made with new DL algorithm curves sounded a bit bass-heavy and colored in the mid-bass, with less presence in the vocals.
Measured all three filter sets. Previous calibration and new filters with DL 3.3.0 measured essentially identical. New filters with DL new algorithm curves reflected the bass boost and treble roll-off that was evident in the curves and the listening.
One thing to note is that DL did not correct the huge modal resonance that I have around 40Hz with my L/R Fronts. Totally weird ... this is the MOST important thing DL does, but clearly in a surrender to marketing and the misguided minds of the general public ... they left +10db bass boost from the resonance.
Okay so this was all totally predictable. It's nothing more than another way to push the bass boost/treble tilt idea. You can do it yourself if you really want to. No magic here.
Also checked phase, impulse, etc. No differences.
<button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button>
I have noticed that when I use the new way to set targets all seems to work well. But after saving the project then reloading, the targets you created with the new method are at some levels other than what you set. Are you seeing this? I didn't try reloading the projects. Just did it once.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Apr 29, 2022 17:48:20 GMT -5
I have noticed that when I use the new way to set targets all seems to work well. But after saving the project then reloading, the targets you created with the new method are at some levels other than what you set. Are you seeing this? I didn't try reloading the projects. Just did it once. It makes me wonder if the new curve method actually affects the filters or if the filters are created as the saved curves would suggest.
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Post by marcl on Apr 29, 2022 19:49:25 GMT -5
I didn't try reloading the projects. Just did it once. It makes me wonder if the new curve method actually affects the filters or if the filters are created as the saved curves would suggest. My bet is the filters work the same way whether you use the Dirac curve or your own. The only thing about the Dirac curve is it now has a low end and high end that's based on the measurement rather than just being the previous arbitrary same curve for each speaker group.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Apr 29, 2022 20:19:21 GMT -5
It makes me wonder if the new curve method actually affects the filters or if the filters are created as the saved curves would suggest. My bet is the filters work the same way whether you use the Dirac curve or your own. The only thing about the Dirac curve is it now has a low end and high end that's based on the measurement rather than just being the previous arbitrary same curve for each speaker group. That was what I would expect. But the issue is if you create filter curves using the new method then save that project and later load it the targets you created are not included so you have no idea what the project really did with regards to frequency response. If you create targets the old fashioned way then save and reload the project then the target curves you created in the project come across with it. So if the curves are not saved in the project are they even used in the filter creation?
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Post by marcl on Apr 29, 2022 20:43:59 GMT -5
My bet is the filters work the same way whether you use the Dirac curve or your own. The only thing about the Dirac curve is it now has a low end and high end that's based on the measurement rather than just being the previous arbitrary same curve for each speaker group. That was what I would expect. But the issue is if you create filter curves using the new method then save that project and later load it the targets you created are not included so you have no idea what the project really did with regards to frequency response. If you create targets the old fashioned way then save and reload the project then the target curves you created in the project come across with it. So if the curves are not saved in the project are they even used in the filter creation? I guess if you use the Dirac targets you could save them, then if you reload the project, load those targets again. Another thing I noticed - and this is kind of a big deal - is that if you have a measurement set saved (i.e. saved before proceeding to filter design) it used to load those measurements and start at the measurements screen. From there you could add, delete or replace measurements before proceeding to preprocessing and the filter design screen. Now, loading measurements takes you directly to the preprocessing and filter design. From my experience, preprocessing is irreversible. You can't go back to measurements and add, delete, replace once preprocessing happens. So this is a bit of a limitation in the way it now works. And by the way on that last bit about reverting to measurements after preprocessing ... I had an exchange with Dirac support about that a while back and they admitted they really didn't know exactly how it worked or whether you should expect to be able to go back. That's when I started saving measurements.
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