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Post by ttocs on Apr 15, 2022 12:20:15 GMT -5
Hello, I was to recalibrate Dirac on xmc-2 and faced some problem with Dirac not recognizing microphone on my MacBook m1. It sees xmc-2 but says "no recording device". I had it calibrated on older MacBook and also previous Dirac version. it looks under system settings on Mac I can see 'USB PnP sound device' so the mic seems to be seen by the system. I could use some help Thanks in advance. Happy Easter. I've had this happen before with the EMM-1 mic, but it was a while ago. If memory serves, I unplugged the mic, rebooted the MacBook Pro, then plugged the mic in again. It was sort of a hiccup with Dirac not seeing what was clearly available. I also am trying to remember which version of Dirac I was using at the time, which might have something to do with the issue. Dirac isn't perfect. There have been times when nothing short of a "proper" uninstall of Dirac, and reinstall of the same version made something operate as expected. Which version are you using?
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szewi
Minor Hero
Posts: 10
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Post by szewi on Apr 15, 2022 12:31:23 GMT -5
Hello, I was to recalibrate Dirac on xmc-2 and faced some problem with Dirac not recognizing microphone on my MacBook m1. It sees xmc-2 but says "no recording device". I had it calibrated on older MacBook and also previous Dirac version. it looks under system settings on Mac I can see 'USB PnP sound device' so the mic seems to be seen by the system. I could use some help Thanks in advance. Happy Easter. I've had this happen before with the EMM-1 mic, but it was a while ago. If memory serves, I unplugged the mic, rebooted the MacBook Pro, then plugged the mic in again. It was sort of a hiccup with Dirac not seeing what was clearly available. I also am trying to remember which version of Dirac I was using at the time, which might have something to do with the issue. Dirac isn't perfect. There have been times when nothing short of a "proper" uninstall of Dirac, and reinstall of the same version made something operate as expected. Which version are you using? It's solved thanks Originally I installed the latest Dirac from Apps store 3.3.0 (874) then went with the one from Dirac page (as listed on the 1st page of this thread) and it worked. So it looks I had wrong version.
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Post by ttocs on Apr 16, 2022 11:00:19 GMT -5
The new Emotiva Dirac tutorial from 4/15/2022 is up. Might seem a bit long, but it answers by demonstration some things that would otherwise be questions after possible fails, and the pace is good for those just getting started. All in all, nicely done.
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Post by JKCashin on Apr 18, 2022 13:05:41 GMT -5
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Post by JKCashin on Apr 18, 2022 13:06:32 GMT -5
Interestingly the Dirac they have is showing levels. Mine shows nothing whatsoever WRT levels on the level setting page. Just sliders.
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Post by ttocs on Apr 18, 2022 13:37:12 GMT -5
One thing not covered by that latest Emotiva Dirac video. There is a Signal To Noise Error that can arise when a subwoofer is being measured and the mic is in a Null.
I've had this happen quite a few times when the mic was placed in the Top/Back/Far-Left position. This is what alerted me to a huge null where there was virtually no subwoofer output in that spot. The spot was way above ear level for anyone sitting down to experience, so it was just limited to a mic position, so I put the mic in a different position for that measurement as a short term solution. I later altered my system setup to alleviate that null somewhat.
This type of situation can be perplexing when it first presents itself. It took me a few times getting this error in one session for me to finally figure it out. I first began limiting the Channel Count in the system down to two channels which eliminated the problem, then added subs which brought the problem back, so I knew it was subwoofer related. I then used REW's RTA and Generator to play pink noise while moving the mic around and it was vvvvvery obvious where that null began, which was just a few inches to the right of that mic position.
"It just goes to show 'ya, it's always something!" (Roseanne Roseannadanna)
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Post by BigE on Apr 18, 2022 14:01:58 GMT -5
Have a 7.3.4 setup 2 subs & tactile transducer under seat
Subs are different sizes as left & right as I recall. What would the group suggest as best practices? Also, given no sound output by transducer, Should I connect an XLR y cable from xmc2 outputs for sub and transducer to my larger sub, then adjust curtains and such for the transducer after measuring sub?
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Post by ttocs on Apr 18, 2022 17:17:47 GMT -5
Have a 7.3.4 setup 2 subs & tactile transducer under seat Subs are different sizes as left & right as I recall. What would the group suggest as best practices? Also, given no sound output by transducer, Should I connect an XLR y cable from xmc2 outputs for sub and transducer to my larger sub, then adjust curtains and such for the transducer after measuring sub? If it were me, I would disable the transducers when using Dirac. If the transducers are connected via Y cable that also connects to a subwoofer, then just turn off the transducers, or unplug the power to them. If the transducers are connected to a dedicated Subwoofer Output, then it's even easier to disable that Output first, then enable it after running Dirac.
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 21, 2022 15:35:19 GMT -5
Do you guys run any auto EQ that your subs have or set the PEQ based on REW before you run Dirac?
Trying to see if I should disable the ARO on my F113 and disable PEQ on my SVS PB16 before running Dirac.
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Post by ttocs on Apr 21, 2022 17:41:54 GMT -5
Do you guys run any auto EQ that your subs have or set the PEQ based on REW before you run Dirac? Trying to see if I should disable the ARO on my F113 and disable PEQ on my SVS PB16 before running Dirac. My subs have Anthem's ARC built-in. I've had success with running ARC first, then running Dirac. Dirac is able to improve the subwoofer response. PEQ however is something that may or may not work well with Dirac on top. I've had good and bad results using it in miniDSP.
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Post by msimanyi on Apr 21, 2022 17:44:24 GMT -5
Lsc This may not apply for you but I use my subs and L/R for two channel playback, and for that I don't have any DSP in effect. I send the signal to my speakers, and the subs pick up on their speaker level inputs from a short "jumper" run of speaker wire between the speakers and subs. My subs include ARC and I have implemented that, then I adjusted my subs' various settings so they sound good with two channel playback. (Pipe organ music is a fun test.) *Then* I run Dirac to be applied for home theater playback. So I think if ARO and the SVS PEQ is run through their own process, you can leave that in effect and run your Dirac calibration. Edit: For home theater, the subs' input is on their Balanced XLR input, and that topology is Processor -> MiniDSP -> Subwoofers. I've run Multi Sub Optimizer on the subs and used their timing and PEQ settings in the MiniDSP before running Dirac as well.
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 21, 2022 21:51:17 GMT -5
Lsc This may not apply for you but I use my subs and L/R for two channel playback, and for that I don't have any DSP in effect. I send the signal to my speakers, and the subs pick up on their speaker level inputs from a short "jumper" run of speaker wire between the speakers and subs. My subs include ARC and I have implemented that, then I adjusted my subs' various settings so they sound good with two channel playback. (Pipe organ music is a fun test.) *Then* I run Dirac to be applied for home theater playback. So I think if ARO and the SVS PEQ is run through their own process, you can leave that in effect and run your Dirac calibration. Edit: For home theater, the subs' input is on their Balanced XLR input, and that topology is Processor -> MiniDSP -> Subwoofers.Β I've run Multi Sub Optimizer on the subs and used their timing and PEQ settings in the MiniDSP before running Dirac as well.
Iβve done effectively exactly what you did using the Theta Casanova and itβs super flexible crossover and the bass sounds fanatic and 2 channel is awesome but Iβm trying to get this XMC2 back in the game and now I have a thin sounding system with room correction that definitely helps with the midbass and some smearing. My subs donβt have high pass connections so I just need to deal with rerunning Dirac until it sounds better. Itβs what I was hoping DLBC would take care of so itβll have to do for now untilβ¦.
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 21, 2022 22:47:56 GMT -5
So I got the bass figured out. Well the new version of Dirac took care of it but the imaging is off to the left.
This has been a hit or miss with me. I try to be very careful with the positioning but Iβm missing something. Is it the volume calibration?
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Post by leonski on Apr 21, 2022 23:18:22 GMT -5
So I got the bass figured out. Well the new version of Dirac took care of it but the imaging is off to the left. This has been a hit or miss with me. I try to be very careful with the positioning but Iβm missing something. Is it the volume calibration? By 'careful with positioning', what exactly do you mean......? Follow the same map in the same order, I hope.....but how close to the SAME mic position each time? +-2 " or better? Given the short wavelengths at higher frequencies, stuff like that could add up..... Room asymmetries matter, too. And for that, you need to make an 'arrange the furniture' call....
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 21, 2022 23:42:04 GMT -5
So I got the bass figured out. Well the new version of Dirac took care of it but the imaging is off to the left. This has been a hit or miss with me. I try to be very careful with the positioning but Iβm missing something. Is it the volume calibration? By 'careful with positioning', what exactly do you mean......? Β Β Follow the same map in the same order, I hope.....but how close to the SAME mic position each time? +-2 " or better? Β Β Β Given the short wavelengths at higher frequencies, stuff like that could add up..... Room asymmetries matter, too. Β Β And for that, you need to make an 'arrange the furniture' call.... Dirac is just annoying. I need something that produces more consistent results.
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Post by ttocs on Apr 22, 2022 7:56:18 GMT -5
Dirac is just annoying. I need something that produces more consistent results. With processor Levels at 0.0dB for both Fronts, and no correction active, I adjust my L&R speakers by ear for Image Center by moving the speakers, and adjusting toe and tilt. This is why my Right speaker is 4-1/2" farther from the front wall than the Left. I haven't had a Dirac Centering issue since some time in 2020. The difference with using Position vs Level for centering the image is one of timing. Moving the speaker such that the image centering is adjusted alters the timing. I haven't directly tested the "why", but it does seem to be more robust in keeping the stage planted better than when using Levels. It's an acoustic thing and I've been gettin' all learned up on this stuff lately. So I wonder about when the centering is not correct after running Dirac if it is related to Timing, and not Levels? Previously, I always used to need to adjust the L&R with different Levels (1.5dB for User, and a little less with Dirac) when using User EQ and with Dirac filters. I still sometimes need to adjust the Right channel up 0.5dB, but not always.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Apr 22, 2022 9:07:27 GMT -5
Our brains respond to both... but, in most situations, if they disagree, timing will prevail in terms of what we notice. So, if the timing is right, you'll notice if the levels are not... But, if the timing is off, you probably cannot fix it by adjusting the levels...
It's also worth noting that timing is more likely to provide a solid consistent cue. Since the majority of the sound from each speaker is coming direct to our ears our brains tend to "lock onto" the timing of that signal. Levels vary from second to second based on the content itself so that part of things is more complex for our brains to interpret...
Level is also generally not as consistent and may in fact be impossible to make entirely correct.
Let me offer an exaggerated example....
Let's assume that your speakers are equidistant from you... but your right wall is paneled... and you have drapes on the left. The time delay on the sound arriving direct from each speaker will be the same. And, assuming the room is symmetrical, the timing of reflections from the walls will also be pretty much the same.
But now compare the PROPORTION of direct and reflected mids and high frequencies that reach your ears from each side. On the side with the paneling a higher proportion of the high frequencies that reach your ears will have reflected off the wall than on the side with the drapes. You can use EQ, or level controls, to adjust the OVERALL balance... And, by doing so, you can "level match - side to side" the direct sound, OR the reflected sound, OR the sum of both... But there is NO adjustment you can make to get ALL THREE of those to match at the same time.
(You can adjust the treble on the side with the drapes, but either that side of the ROOM will sound dead, or the SPEAKER will sound bright.)
(No matter what you do, on that side of the room, you're going to hear a higher PROPORTION of high frequencies direct from the speaker than on the other side.)
At that point your best bet is to.... - Make sure the timing is right because it will dominate what you hear (having the timing wrong will never improve anything)
- Adjust the toe-in so less sound is reflected from both walls... and so reduce the effect of the dissimilar walls simply by reducing wall reflections overall... (This might be one of those situations where really extreme toe-in might be the best option.)
Or, if you were planning this out in advance, and "buying to spec", choose speakers with limited horizontal dispersion...
Or, better yet, fix the room by hanging a tapestry over that paneling to make the room more symmetrical acoustically...
Even though Dirac Live does a great job some ACOUSTIC things just cannot be corrected perfectly by adjusting the SIGNAL... (Things like binaural can do so... but they do it by removing the room and speaker acoustics from the equation entirely by using headphones.)
Dirac is just annoying. I need something that produces more consistent results. With processor Levels at 0.0dB for both Fronts, and no correction active, I adjust my L&R speakers by ear for Image Center by moving the speakers, and adjusting toe and tilt. This is why my Right speaker is 4-1/2" farther from the front wall than the Left. I haven't had a Dirac Centering issue since some time in 2020. The difference with using Position vs Level for centering the image is one of timing. Moving the speaker such that the image centering is adjusted alters the timing. I haven't directly tested the "why", but it does seem to be more robust in keeping the stage planted better than when using Levels. It's an acoustic thing and I've been gettin' all learned up on this stuff lately. So I wonder about when the centering is not correct after running Dirac if it is related to Timing, and not Levels? Previously, I always used to need to adjust the L&R with different Levels (1.5dB for User, and a little less with Dirac) when using User EQ and with Dirac filters. I still sometimes need to adjust the Right channel up 0.5dB, but not always.
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Apr 22, 2022 9:34:31 GMT -5
Here are a few suggestions....
1. Imaging and sound stage are determined mostly by midrange frequencies. - bass frequencies are so long that a few inches won't matter - at 10 kHz the wavelength is about an inch; so, since nodes and nulls are only 1/2 inch apart, our brains have learned not to notice them in that much detail
2. With Dirac Live it is the first sample that determines the imaging.
- so make sure to get that FIRST microphone position PERFECT and don't worry too much about the others
3. Try to be careful about ANYTHING that will confuse or throw off what the microphone hears. - DO NOT sit the microphone on something hollow like an empty box or upturned trash can (the echoes inside WILL affect the measurements) - make sure the microphone isn't obstructed (if you set the little stand on the seat of a chair the back of the chair will block the back speakers; you may also get reflections from the chair back and seat)
- avoid reflections from shiny surfaces (if you're perching the microphone on the back of a leather chair drape a towel over the chair first; if on a tabletop put a folded towel under it) (in fact it's better if you cover the entire top of a shiny table with something like a towel)
(this is why a tall microphone stand will help a lot ... and it doesn't have to be an especially good or expensive one)
4. The volume calibration for running Dirac is ONLY used to set the levels at which to run the measurements. - therefore variations of as much as a few dB between channel levels at that point WILL NOT affect your final results (it doesn't hurt to get them as close as you can - but obsessing over them really won't make any difference)
5. And, finally....
ROOM ACOUSTICS DO STILL MATTER. There are SOME things that NO room correction, including Dirac Live, is going to be able to fix, or fix perfectly... period. NOT ALL ROOM ACOUSTICS ISSUES CAN BE FIXED BY MAKING CHANGES TO THE SIGNAL.
Specifically, if your room is "acoustically asymmetrical", and especially if it is asymmetrical in a way that is frequency dependent, Dirac MAY not be able to fix it to your satisfaction. LIKEWISE SPEAKERS ALSO STILL MATTER. There are also some sonic characteristics of SPEAKERS that CANNOT be fixed or changed by adjusting the SIGNAL.
However a good start IS to position the microphone well...
So, for example, in my office I have a leather office chair with a relatively high back...
So, if I want to use the little included stand, I drape a folder towel over the back of the chair, then perch the microphone tripod on that...
This at least gives the microphone an unobstructed view of the room... and eliminates obvious problems from the chair... and basic things like that.
(So, even though the acoustics in my office are awful, this gives Dirac Live the best chance to do the best job it can to improve the situation.)
So I got the bass figured out. Well the new version of Dirac took care of it but the imaging is off to the left. This has been a hit or miss with me. I try to be very careful with the positioning but Iβm missing something. Is it the volume calibration? By 'careful with positioning', what exactly do you mean......? Follow the same map in the same order, I hope.....but how close to the SAME mic position each time? +-2 " or better? Given the short wavelengths at higher frequencies, stuff like that could add up..... Room asymmetries matter, too. And for that, you need to make an 'arrange the furniture' call....
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Apr 22, 2022 11:36:44 GMT -5
I just downloaded and installed Dirac 3.3 and so far I like the new curve options. But does anyone know what "enable delay/gain" setting does?
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 22, 2022 14:50:52 GMT -5
Dirac is just annoying. I need something that produces more consistent results. With processor Levels at 0.0dB for both Fronts, and no correction active, I adjust my L&R speakers by ear for Image Center by moving the speakers, and adjusting toe and tilt. This is why my Right speaker is 4-1/2" farther from the front wall than the Left. I haven't had a Dirac Centering issue since some time in 2020. The difference with using Position vs Level for centering the image is one of timing. Moving the speaker such that the image centering is adjusted alters the timing. I haven't directly tested the "why", but it does seem to be more robust in keeping the stage planted better than when using Levels. It's an acoustic thing and I've been gettin' all learned up on this stuff lately. So I wonder about when the centering is not correct after running Dirac if it is related to Timing, and not Levels? Previously, I always used to need to adjust the L&R with different Levels (1.5dB for User, and a little less with Dirac) when using User EQ and with Dirac filters. I still sometimes need to adjust the Right channel up 0.5dB, but not always. What worked for me was to not touch the volume adjustment for L & R speakers in Dirac Live. I brought down the levels of the surrounds since they are much more efficient to avoid clipping. So now My imaging in back to center. I may need to reduce the curve of my mains as it seems like there is a little bloat here but overall it seems pretty good. Will run again w the 9 point for bigger room correction (used for music). Positive steps.
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