|
Post by BigE on Aug 9, 2020 11:58:45 GMT -5
Had some time and wanted to do some testing on xmc-2 running v2.0 firmware. Source 1 xbox1S configured with sound as DTS in settings Test Disc is Eagles Farewell 1 Tour on DVD I missed a few items; nothing major. After creating a spreadsheet, I know what I could go back for, but clearly there's an issue. I also will rerun another day w/ripped Farewll tour playing thru Kodi to Xbox1S and again once I get my Zapitti. Will be interesting to see if it's streaming related or what, but clearly re-booting WAS a problem. I lost LR channels and got rear channels instead. I was excited the rears were playing until I realized I'd lost fronts. Apologies, first attempt transcribed from notes on paper, then decided to transcribe to spreadsheet to make comparison easier; this also allowed me to realize which things I missed in my rush to get it done - wife had dinner & a RedBox movie Becky. Save your $2. 7.1.4 systemI don’t understand your spreadsheet. Is the ”X” meaning that the speaker is active during the sound mode? - x = active speaker during listed sound mode
- n/a = not available during during listed sound mode [design]
- blank = no perceptable* sound on channel w/my non-scientific testing
*If there was sound I missed, then it was so low as to be undectable from 4 ft. My testing consisted of raising & lowering trim across the full 24dB range - scientific huh. I skipped the ladder and pulling input out of my amp. Why then is your center not active in most sound modes with a 5.1 source? Yes, why indeed! It seemed to only want to work in All stereo mode. Perhaps that concert doesn't really have a center channel in its DTS 5.1. I got the same result using ATMOS mode setting of my Xbox 1S output from both the DTS disc and from the Amazon Prime app. I hadn't considered a soft reboot - not that I feel rebooting for changing source input should BE required - before ATMOS testing setting of Xbox 1S; Given XMC-2's PC like behavior at times, I should've.
When I first undertook this upgrade to 5.1.6, I didn't know that my using 6 identical Mirage omnisat speakers wasn't going to possible - at least on V1.10 [7.x.4 or 7.x.6]. I flipped the 2 middle Atmos channels to "surrounds" [at ceiling height L&R of seating] re-purposing a now open XMC-2 xlr for a new second sub. 4 ATMOS are LR Front Height & LR Rear Height; leaving open XLRs in the future for a third sub & LR Width channels. From perusals of the forum, the wides don't seem to be used in many studio soundtracks. Just double checked and sound from speakers matches channels output in trim levels section of XMC-2 menu...thought I was going crazy due to pulling cable from amp output for earlier v1.10 testing awhile back. I expected that a DTS 5.1 would be LCR, L&R "backs" [ear-level E2s behind me] & sub - like my pre XMC-2 5.1 setup. So the 5.1 cannot be controlled from the remote - only menu trims; the 2 sides/surrounds and 4 overhead ATMOS all also get trim on the remote.
Perhaps the DTS disc is crap. Have been considering upgrading to the blu-ray version of The Eagles Farewell 1 Tour, but Amazon Prime app thru Xbox1S is weird as well. Amazon JUST delivered a ZAPPITI ONE SE 4K HDR - allowing me to test the rip outside of the Xbox altogether. I may even move the dedicated blu ray upstairs for testing at some point. If nothing can be said about what is or should not be the proper channels being output on a DTS 5.1 disc, the XMC-2 loss of LR and appearance of LR back in their place after a soft reboot is NOT normal behavior.
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Aug 9, 2020 13:52:55 GMT -5
Apologies, first attempt transcribed from notes on paper, then decided to transcribe to spreadsheet to make comparison easier; this also allowed me to realize which things I missed in my rush to get it done - wife had dinner & a RedBox movie Becky. Save your $2. 7.1.4 systemI don’t understand your spreadsheet. Is the ”X” meaning that the speaker is active during the sound mode? - x = active speaker during listed sound mode
- n/a = not available during during listed sound mode [design]
- blank = no perceptable* sound on channel w/my non-scientific testing
*If there was sound I missed, then it was so low as to be undectable from 4 ft. My testing consisted of raising & lowering trim across the full 24dB range - scientific huh. I skipped the ladder and pulling input out of my amp. Why then is your center not active in most sound modes with a 5.1 source? Yes, why indeed! It seemed to only want to work in All stereo mode. Perhaps that concert doesn't really have a center channel in its DTS 5.1. I got the same result using ATMOS mode setting of my Xbox 1S output from both the DTS disc and from the Amazon Prime app. I hadn't considered a soft reboot - not that I feel rebooting for changing source input should BE required - before ATMOS testing setting of Xbox 1S; Given XMC-2's PC like behavior at times, I should've.
When I first undertook this upgrade to 5.1.6, I didn't know that my using 6 identical Mirage omnisat speakers wasn't going to possible - at least on V1.10 [7.x.4 or 7.x.6]. I flipped the 2 middle Atmos channels to "surrounds" [at ceiling height L&R of seating] re-purposing a now open XMC-2 xlr for a new second sub. 4 ATMOS are LR Front Height & LR Rear Height; leaving open XLRs in the future for a third sub & LR Width channels. From perusals of the forum, the wides don't seem to be used in many studio soundtracks. Just double checked and sound from speakers matches channels output in trim levels section of XMC-2 menu...thought I was going crazy due to pulling cable from amp output for earlier v1.10 testing awhile back. I expected that a DTS 5.1 would be LCR, L&R "backs" [ear-level E2s behind me] & sub - like my pre XMC-2 5.1 setup. So the 5.1 cannot be controlled from the remote - only menu trims; the 2 sides/surrounds and 4 overhead ATMOS all also get trim on the remote.
Perhaps the DTS disc is crap. Have been considering upgrading to the blu-ray version of The Eagles Farewell 1 Tour, but Amazon Prime app thru Xbox1S is weird as well. Amazon JUST delivered a ZAPPITI ONE SE 4K HDR - allowing me to test the rip outside of the Xbox altogether. I may even move the dedicated blu ray upstairs for testing at some point. If nothing can be said about what is or should not be the proper channels being output on a DTS 5.1 disc, the XMC-2 loss of LR and appearance of LR back in their place after a soft reboot is NOT normal behavior. Ok! Thanks for explaining. Could be there’s no center sound in the mix, or very little. Especially if they’ve mixed a stereo to multi channel without wanting to change too much of the music sound. But the missing or wrong speakers are not ok. The thing is, quite sure I’m sorry to say, you will get this answer.. ”Oops! Things happen, just reboot. It should fix it.” The things should not happen at all IMO. But do too frequently.. The surround ”backs/rears” are only for 7.x.x setups. 5.1 should have sound coming from side surrounds. Maybe I misunderstood your comment?
|
|
|
Post by BigE on Aug 9, 2020 14:45:17 GMT -5
Ok! Thanks for explaining. Could be there’s no center sound in the mix, or very little. Especially if they’ve mixed a stereo to multi channel without wanting to change too much of the music sound. But the missing or wrong speakers are not ok. The thing is, quite sure I’m sorry to say, you will get this answer.. ”Oops! Things happen, just reboot. It should fix it.” The things should not happen at all IMO. But do too frequently.. The surround ”backs/rears” are only for 7.x.x setups. 5.1 should have sound coming from side surrounds. Maybe I misunderstood your comment? Nope. Answered my question. Years ago, had a Yamaha AV pre-amp running 2 rear channels [full range Cerwin Vegas using amp section of a Pioneer receiver ] hung from the ceiling left and right of seating. Had a passive 15" sub w/internal crossover to JBL 4312s powered by Carver m1.0t. Upgraded years latter, but never put Onkyo THX receiver, Mirage Omnisats, sub, or Xbox1S into action until 2019 when I decide to BUY a projector and ditch all ofthe parts I'd amassed to build a projector. Found my now dated brand new out of the box 7.1 system speakers lacking bass I was used to, Onkyo was HDMI 1.4 and lacked both 3D & ATMOS capabilities. DTS worked great though. The JBL 4312s got moved out of the family room - which made my wife very happy - upstairs as mains. Then began a buying spree of EMO gear in Q4 2019 and "done" - if it ever really is - by arrival of COVID lockdown. 6 Omnisats tasked with ATMOS duties for a 5.1.6 system before moving it to a 7.2.4 system. Speaker positioning is possible less than ideal - since the thought was top height, middle height, & rear height. Well off to play with the Zappitti toy. My backs are at ear-level. My side surrounds are way high up above the ceiling fan on the vaulted ceiling, slightly forward L&R of seating, toed in and pointed at seating. Second sub is now under the cabinetry where a chair would normally go on far wall.
|
|
|
Post by jonstatt on Sept 5, 2020 11:14:40 GMT -5
This thread has gone very quiet, particularly since 2.1 has been released. Have they fixed it?
|
|
|
Post by doc1963 on Sept 5, 2020 11:39:27 GMT -5
This thread has gone very quiet, particularly since 2.1 has been released. Have they fixed it? The only problem that I experienced with Neural:X was the decrease in overall output level and, yes, that has been fixed in the newest firmware (2.1).
|
|
|
Post by megash0n on Sept 5, 2020 12:40:03 GMT -5
I'll say that, for all the folks saying there was nothing wrong with DTS, it is astonishingly different with 2.1 than ever before. So... Go figure. It's not a source or content issue. A FW update seems to have "appeared" to correct these issues. DTS:X sounds good now on all the content I've played. I do feel like I need to remeasure Dirac because it seems as if the height channels are louder now. Just to be safe.
|
|
|
Post by markc on Sept 5, 2020 14:30:50 GMT -5
I'll say that, for all the folks saying there was nothing wrong with DTS, it is astonishingly different with 2.1 than ever before. So... Go figure. It's not a source or content issue. A FW update seems to have "appeared" to correct these issues. DTS:X sounds good now on all the content I've played. I do feel like I need to remeasure Dirac because it seems as if the height channels are louder now. Just to be safe. I’m a little worried for the people who persisted in insisting their Neural:X was fine in their processor and repeatedly insinuated that it was down to user input or source devices or -even- subjective listening. I hope this 2.1 firmware Neural:X fix of the issue affecting every previous firmware that anyone ever had for these processors doesn’t cause them a problem. e.g. an acute case of a self-reflecting epiphany and a dash to an audiometrist for a hearing test with a trip to the bakery for some humble pie. 😬 🐒
|
|
richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 859
|
Post by richb on Sept 5, 2020 14:33:23 GMT -5
I'll say that, for all the folks saying there was nothing wrong with DTS, it is astonishingly different with 2.1 than ever before. So... Go figure. It's not a source or content issue. A FW update seems to have "appeared" to correct these issues. DTS:X sounds good now on all the content I've played. I do feel like I need to remeasure Dirac because it seems as if the height channels are louder now. Just to be safe. I’m a little worried for the people who persisted in insisting their Neural:X was fine in their processor and repeatedly insinuated that it was down to user input or source devices or -even- subjective listening. I hope this 2.1 firmware Neural:X fix of the issue affecting every previous firmware that anyone ever had for these processors doesn’t cause them a problem. e.g. an acute case of a self-reflecting epiphany and a dash to an audiometrist for a hearing test with a trip to the bakery for some humble pie. 😬 🐒 I measured with test disks and there were some issues that I will retest with 2.1. However, they were minor in comparison to a 6+ dB drop in volume. That can make quite a negative impression. - Rich
|
|
|
Post by megash0n on Sept 5, 2020 15:42:32 GMT -5
I'll say that, for all the folks saying there was nothing wrong with DTS, it is astonishingly different with 2.1 than ever before. So... Go figure. It's not a source or content issue. A FW update seems to have "appeared" to correct these issues. DTS:X sounds good now on all the content I've played. I do feel like I need to remeasure Dirac because it seems as if the height channels are louder now. Just to be safe. I’m a little worried for the people who persisted in insisting their Neural:X was fine in their processor and repeatedly insinuated that it was down to user input or source devices or -even- subjective listening. I hope this 2.1 firmware Neural:X fix of the issue affecting every previous firmware that anyone ever had for these processors doesn’t cause them a problem. e.g. an acute case of a self-reflecting epiphany and a dash to an audiometrist for a hearing test with a trip to the bakery for some humble pie. 😬 🐒 Pretty much. 😂😂😂
|
|
|
Post by JKCashin on Sept 5, 2020 16:05:10 GMT -5
I'll say that, for all the folks saying there was nothing wrong with DTS, it is astonishingly different with 2.1 than ever before. So... Go figure. It's not a source or content issue. A FW update seems to have "appeared" to correct these issues. DTS:X sounds good now on all the content I've played. I do feel like I need to remeasure Dirac because it seems as if the height channels are louder now. Just to be safe. I’m a little worried for the people who persisted in insisting their Neural:X was fine in their processor and repeatedly insinuated that it was down to user input or source devices or -even- subjective listening. I hope this 2.1 firmware Neural:X fix of the issue affecting every previous firmware that anyone ever had for these processors doesn’t cause them a problem. e.g. an acute case of a self-reflecting epiphany and a dash to an audiometrist for a hearing test with a trip to the bakery for some humble pie. 😬 🐒 Ouch! ;-)
|
|
|
Post by Mikomill on Sept 5, 2020 16:44:57 GMT -5
I'll say that, for all the folks saying there was nothing wrong with DTS, it is astonishingly different with 2.1 than ever before. So... Go figure. It's not a source or content issue. A FW update seems to have "appeared" to correct these issues. DTS:X sounds good now on all the content I've played. I do feel like I need to remeasure Dirac because it seems as if the height channels are louder now. Just to be safe. The only problem that I experienced with Neural:X was the decrease in overall output level, I NEVER said is was a source or content issue. It still sounds as great as it always did! My wife STILL thinks it sounds great too. Yup....Go figure.
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,193
|
Post by geebo on Sept 5, 2020 18:53:10 GMT -5
I'll say that, for all the folks saying there was nothing wrong with DTS, it is astonishingly different with 2.1 than ever before. So... Go figure. It's not a source or content issue. A FW update seems to have "appeared" to correct these issues. DTS:X sounds good now on all the content I've played. I do feel like I need to remeasure Dirac because it seems as if the height channels are louder now. Just to be safe. The only problem that I experienced with Neural:X was the decrease in overall output level, I NEVER said is was a source or content issue. It still sounds as great as it always did! My wife STILL thinks it sounds great too. Yup....Go figure. Yes, some of us only had a volume difference myself included. Bumping up the volume 6dB took care of it. No other ill effects noted. And 2.1 took care of the volume difference which is definitely a good thing.
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Sept 7, 2020 18:09:42 GMT -5
The only problem that I experienced with Neural:X was the decrease in overall output level, I NEVER said is was a source or content issue. It still sounds as great as it always did! My wife STILL thinks it sounds great too. Yup....Go figure. Yes, some of us only had a volume difference myself included. Bumping up the volume 6dB took care of it. No other ill effects noted. And 2.1 took care of the volume difference which is definitely a good thing. Yes, one of the really strange things with Emotiva processors. People having different experiences with bugs, stability and sound. Although the issue with bad sound in my RMC was in mostly due to the volume. But I experienced a less defined LF. Had a couple of friends over which noticed the same thing. Unless switching between Surround to Neural:X I would probably not have ever noticed it. It was subtle.. Markc’s issues with 7.x, sound not coming out of the correct speaker, sound playing at different volume from some speakers I can’t say I noticed though. But I had some other issues instead.
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Sept 7, 2020 18:20:47 GMT -5
I'll say that, for all the folks saying there was nothing wrong with DTS, it is astonishingly different with 2.1 than ever before. So... Go figure. It's not a source or content issue. A FW update seems to have "appeared" to correct these issues. DTS:X sounds good now on all the content I've played. I do feel like I need to remeasure Dirac because it seems as if the height channels are louder now. Just to be safe. The only problem that I experienced with Neural:X was the decrease in overall output level, I NEVER said is was a source or content issue. It still sounds as great as it always did! My wife STILL thinks it sounds great too. Yup....Go figure. If you don’t knew there was a problem you’d never notice most of issues without a direct comparison. Most don’t want put that much time into testing a feature they hardly use. Some don’t even notice it at all. Some maybe don’t have any issues even. The last should be REALLY scary though. Then it would be almost impossible for Emotiva to code if all units behaved differently. Or their code really sucked..
|
|
|
Post by Mikomill on Sept 7, 2020 19:53:06 GMT -5
The only problem that I experienced with Neural:X was the decrease in overall output level, I NEVER said is was a source or content issue. It still sounds as great as it always did! My wife STILL thinks it sounds great too. Yup....Go figure. If you don’t knew there was a problem you’d never notice most of issues without a direct comparison. Most don’t want put that much time into testing a feature they hardly use. Some don’t even notice it at all. Some maybe don’t have any issues even. The last should be REALLY scary though. Then it would be almost impossible for Emotiva to code if all units behaved differently. Or their code really sucked.. I understand what you're saying Mr. Hsamwel and you are right! A person doesn't know what they don't know but Im very familiar with Neural:X and how its supposed to sound. The only issue i had was the decrease in overall output level. Others here had the same experience i did. I think the RMC has enough real issues that need to be addressed and this just wasn't an issue for me on my RMC-1L.
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Sept 8, 2020 9:16:27 GMT -5
If you don’t knew there was a problem you’d never notice most of issues without a direct comparison. Most don’t want put that much time into testing a feature they hardly use. Some don’t even notice it at all. Some maybe don’t have any issues even. The last should be REALLY scary though. Then it would be almost impossible for Emotiva to code if all units behaved differently. Or their code really sucked.. I understand what you're saying Mr. Hsamwel and you are right! A person doesn't know what they don't know but Im very familiar with Neural:X and how its supposed to sound. The only issue i had was the decrease in overall output level. Others here had the same experience i did. I think the RMC has enough real issues that need to be addressed and this just wasn't an issue for me on my RMC-1L. Yeah, you are probably more familiar with Neural:X than I am. I hardly ever use the mode. Mostly a straight guy I didn’t notice anything strange other than lower volume at first. After reading some comments on this forum I started to investigate and found some issues other than lower volume. Reported this to Emotiva and now it seems everything has been fixed including the volume issue. Of course, Dirac and stability being the most important issues. For me this has been fixed. But it seems like always there are some that have huge issues with a firmware. I have actually only had real issues with 2.0 of all firmwares (since 1.3a) I have used. But we still need to discuss other issues and possible improvements in the meantime and report these to Emotiva. That’s why these threads and the people starting them are good for us all in the long run. I’d like some additional features added now.. I and many others have asked for several improvements over the course of these two years. Maybe now they will have a little more resources to implement those..
|
|