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Post by monkumonku on Jul 7, 2020 12:08:07 GMT -5
My VTA ST-120 tube amp has taps from the transformer for both 4 and 8 ohm speakers. The assembly instructions say to connect one color wire to the speaker terminals for 8 ohm and the other color if it is 4 ohm. I'm currently using 8 ohm speakers so when I built the amp I used the 8 ohm tap, naturally.
The Maggie LRS I just ordered are 4 ohm speakers. If I decide to keep them, I plan on also keeping my current Ascend Sierra 2's as well and then trading them off depending on what I'm listening to. I asked Bob Latino of VTA about the wiring for the difference in ohms. He said I may hear a slight difference between the two such as decreased bass or other difference, but that the mismatch itself was not harmful. He said to just try both and see which one sounds better. That makes sense.
My only prior experience was when I had an Onkyo AVR with a 4 ohm switch. Despite having 4 ohm speakers (among which were the Emo ERM series), I never put it on 4 ohms and everything sounded fine.
I thought I'd post here, however, just to see if anyone has any real world experiences on how much of a difference it makes between using the 4 versus 8 ohm tap. Is there that much difference electrical wise?
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Post by donh50 on Jul 7, 2020 13:26:30 GMT -5
Tube amplifiers have much higher output impedance than solid-state amplifiers and thus are much more sensitive to the load. I'd use the 4-ohm taps, but as Mr. Latino said, you can try both and see which you prefer. Maggies are a pretty easy, albeit low, load so are likely to exhibit less sensitivity to the tap than conventional speakers.
HTH - Don
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Post by vcautokid on Jul 7, 2020 19:55:47 GMT -5
My VTA ST-120 tube amp has taps from the transformer for both 4 and 8 ohm speakers. The assembly instructions say to connect one color wire to the speaker terminals for 8 ohm and the other color if it is 4 ohm. I'm currently using 8 ohm speakers so when I built the amp I used the 8 ohm tap, naturally. The Maggie LRS I just ordered are 4 ohm speakers. If I decide to keep them, I plan on also keeping my current Ascend Sierra 2's as well and then trading them off depending on what I'm listening to. I asked Bob Latino of VTA about the wiring for the difference in ohms. He said I may hear a slight difference between the two such as decreased bass or other difference, but that the mismatch itself was not harmful. He said to just try both and see which one sounds better. That makes sense. My only prior experience was when I had an Onkyo AVR with a 4 ohm switch. Despite having 4 ohm speakers (among which were the Emo ERM series), I never put it on 4 ohms and everything sounded fine. I thought I'd post here, however, just to see if anyone has any real world experiences on how much of a difference it makes between using the 4 versus 8 ohm tap. Is there that much difference electrical wise? On any AVR receiver. Never ever ever select the 4 ohm switch. It is a provision made for UL tests to prevent the amplifiers from overheating. If anything you will get much diminished performance from AVR that frankly doesn't have any to give up especially these days in AVRs. Compared to the pre HDMI or early HDMI days most AVRs today are power starved in their amplifier stages. Even the mighty 8500H does not hold a candle to the original AVR-5800. Real power in an AVR. And this is a pretty respectable receiver today along with the flagship Marantz for instance. It is like Rocket Fuel vs. the swill at the gas pump.    |
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Post by vcautokid on Jul 7, 2020 20:02:31 GMT -5
Onkyos especially are power strapped. I ditched mine as fast as possible. Onkyo and Pioneer Elite are together and Sound United was going to buy them up but backed out. Onkyo and Pioneer let alone Elite are not what they used to be. Being a former Onkyo and Pioneer Elite dealer and salesman. I swore by these guys. Now I swear at them. Just get out of the market already. Also JVC has nothing to offer in Home Theater though their projectors are pretty tasty and and their professional broadcast arm is doing well, but otherwise who cares? Same with Kenwood which is together with JVC. Like Studebaker and Packard. Both gone. Tell you something?
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Post by monkumonku on Jul 7, 2020 20:25:31 GMT -5
My VTA ST-120 tube amp has taps from the transformer for both 4 and 8 ohm speakers. The assembly instructions say to connect one color wire to the speaker terminals for 8 ohm and the other color if it is 4 ohm. I'm currently using 8 ohm speakers so when I built the amp I used the 8 ohm tap, naturally. The Maggie LRS I just ordered are 4 ohm speakers. If I decide to keep them, I plan on also keeping my current Ascend Sierra 2's as well and then trading them off depending on what I'm listening to. I asked Bob Latino of VTA about the wiring for the difference in ohms. He said I may hear a slight difference between the two such as decreased bass or other difference, but that the mismatch itself was not harmful. He said to just try both and see which one sounds better. That makes sense. My only prior experience was when I had an Onkyo AVR with a 4 ohm switch. Despite having 4 ohm speakers (among which were the Emo ERM series), I never put it on 4 ohms and everything sounded fine. I thought I'd post here, however, just to see if anyone has any real world experiences on how much of a difference it makes between using the 4 versus 8 ohm tap. Is there that much difference electrical wise? On any AVR receiver. Never ever ever select the 4 ohm switch. It is a provision made for UL tests to prevent the amplifiers from overheating. If anything you will get much diminished performance from AVR that frankly doesn't have any to give up especially these days in AVRs. Compared to the pre HDMI or early HDMI days most AVRs today are power starved in their amplifier stages. Even the mighty 8500H does not hold a candle to the original AVR-5800. Real power in an AVR. And this is a pretty respectable receiver today along with the flagship Marantz for instance. It is like Rocket Fuel vs. the swill at the gas pump. View AttachmentView AttachmentView Attachment The same hold true for tubes? The 8 vs 4 ohm is based on which wire from the transformer is connected to the speaker post. Is that how it is on solid state stuff, too? |
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Post by monkumonku on Jul 7, 2020 20:28:02 GMT -5
Onkyos especially are power strapped. I ditched mine as fast as possible. Onkyo and Pioneer Elite are together and Sound United was going to buy them up but backed out. Onkyo and Pioneer let alone Elite are not what they used to be. Being a former Onkyo and Pioneer Elite dealer and salesman. I swore by these guys. Now I swear at them. Just get out of the market already. Also JVC has nothing to offer in Home Theater though their projectors are pretty tasty and and their professional broadcast arm is doing well, but otherwise who cares? Same with Kenwood which is together with JVC. Like Studebaker and Packard. Both gone. Tell you something? Back in the early 90's when I got my first AVR, the sales rep touted Onkyo. He said pick up any of the brands that they carried, and Onkyo would be the heaviest because it was the highest quality, with heavy transformers, etc. I ended up buying the Onkyo and was happy with it. When I bought my next one, I stuck with Onkyo. But this time I noticed it was much lighter than the previous one. A lot lighter. But that still didn't prevent it from becoming a frying pan.  (but not a cast iron one... it was lighter than a cast iron pan) |
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Post by vcautokid on Jul 7, 2020 20:34:42 GMT -5
That was the HDMI board getting hot. Also NIC card failures and the list goes on and on. Never will I recommend an Onkyo or Integra product. Unreliable and total unacceptable pieces of kit. In the days of old, both were respected and cherished. Now I don't care what happens to Onkyo or Integra. The RMA list I had when doing custom was ridiculous.
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Post by donh50 on Jul 7, 2020 22:54:23 GMT -5
On any AVR receiver. Never ever ever select the 4 ohm switch. It is a provision made for UL tests to prevent the amplifiers from overheating. If anything you will get much diminished performance from AVR that frankly doesn't have any to give up especially these days in AVRs. Compared to the pre HDMI or early HDMI days most AVRs today are power starved in their amplifier stages. Even the mighty 8500H does not hold a candle to the original AVR-5800. Real power in an AVR. And this is a pretty respectable receiver today along with the flagship Marantz for instance. It is like Rocket Fuel vs. the swill at the gas pump. View AttachmentView AttachmentView Attachment The 8 vs 4 ohm is based on which wire from the transformer is connected to the speaker post. Is that how it is on solid state stuff, too? No. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 1:12:46 GMT -5
Onkyos especially are power strapped. I ditched mine as fast as possible. Onkyo and Pioneer Elite are together and Sound United was going to buy them up but backed out. Onkyo and Pioneer let alone Elite are not what they used to be. Being a former Onkyo and Pioneer Elite dealer and salesman. I swore by these guys. Now I swear at them. Just get out of the market already. Also JVC has nothing to offer in Home Theater though their projectors are pretty tasty and and their professional broadcast arm is doing well, but otherwise who cares? Same with Kenwood which is together with JVC. Like Studebaker and Packard. Both gone. Tell you something? Back in the early 90's when I got my first AVR, the sales rep touted Onkyo. He said pick up any of the brands that they carried, and Onkyo would be the heaviest because it was the highest quality, with heavy transformers, etc. I ended up buying the Onkyo and was happy with it. When I bought my next one, I stuck with Onkyo. But this time I noticed it was much lighter than the previous one. A lot lighter. But that still didn't prevent it from becoming a frying pan. (but not a cast iron one... it was lighter than a cast iron pan) I had a similar experience about that time. I had originally intended to buy an Onkyo AVR that had tested very well in reviews for 4 ohm power. It weighed about 50 lbs if my memory is correct. My purchase was delayed and out came the follow up model. I saw from the specs that is had evidently been sent to Jenny Craig before it was released to the supposedly dumb public buyers. The weight on this subsequent model was down to about to 37lbs, 13 lbs less. Gee, what happened? This time there was little if any evidence that it was strong into 4 ohms. This of course was during the time that the AVR brands were starting the demise of strong AVR's for 4 ohm performance. If my memory is correct I actually ended up with a heavy beast of a Sony ES AVR, around 50 lbs. Of course now I have an Emo XPA-5 power amp, 75lb brute with 300 watts into 4 ohms on each of 5 channels, great amp! |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 10, 2020 15:43:19 GMT -5
vcautokid - Having been in the business which brands (if any) WOULD you recommend for AVRs? For integrated stereo amps? AND if we're using weight alone as an indicator of quality, what does that say about ANY switching power supply vs. any conventional "heavy-iron" one? Finally, is the quality of the accessory daughterboards (HDMI, Wi-Fi, etc.) predicted by the quality of the output amp power supply? Thanks - Boom
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Post by vcautokid on Jul 10, 2020 17:45:29 GMT -5
Oh wow weight not always a guaranteed greatness. It promises usually a healthy linear power supply. I have nothing against SMPS. They are brilliant. Look at the the PA-1. But I grew up when power was done the hard way. Marantz and Denon are my trusted brands. I like Anthem allot too. Yamaha is hanging in there. Onkyo and Pioneer is pure garbage. Avoid at all costs. If you have to buy modern that is. Integrateds were my go too like NAD Silver and the 370, and some of the Rotel on the affordable. Now Emotiva integrated is getting it done. The A-300 is the crazy good amp on the cheap price but want good. Ultimately my XPA-2 was out right favorite next to some Krells and Acurus I use to swing with. The big mighty John Curl Parasound was fun too. The Rotel RB-1090 power amplifier was just too good. I loved that amplifier. There are many others but this will do. Legacy receivers don't betray the listener of power like these computers today. Just my opinion.
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Post by vcautokid on Jul 10, 2020 17:55:16 GMT -5
Part B power regulation and isolation are king. Wifi and or the NIC cards are a joke in the Integra and Onkyo. HDMI has got allot of heavy lifting to do. The heat proves it. Clean power matters there too. Computers have a poor sense of humor on power that is not where it should be. I am not a big fan of having all the network schiit inside the box and I wouldn't keep the game separate but that is me. Just strange that way. Dropped on the head one time too many maybe. I have a friend where his NIC card is taking a schiit too. Not a fan of those things. Also could be my I.T. roots. Radio which WIFI basically is. So I abstain from yee or nee on network connectivity. I won't lose any sleep over it. Just connect an ethernet connector and hopefully old NIC doesn't schiit itself just outside of warranty.
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Post by monkumonku on Aug 6, 2020 18:43:17 GMT -5
I ran across the below-pictured product on the VTA site which now makes hookup and comparison of the 4 and 8 ohm taps much easier. I received a pair yesterday and wired it today. One red (positive) post gets the 4 ohm tap from the transformer, and the other gets the 8 ohm tap. After getting it wired and closing the amp back up, I listened to a couple of tracks I always use to evaluate things and no real difference stood out to me. I thought maybe the 8 ohm sounded better but I can't be sure as listening again didn't really confirm that. Since my speakers are 8 ohm I'm leaving the banana plug in the 8 ohm post. When my Maggies arrive, I'll do another comparison. I'm glad to have this solution. The only thing that I am sure about is that for whatever reason after installing the new binding posts, speaker noise with the 8 ohm is nearly inaudible. I can barely hear anything with my ear right up to the speaker. The 4 ohm is also very quiet, but I can hear a little more noise, about the same amount as when I had two posts per side with the 8 ohm tap connected.  |
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(but not a cast iron one... it was lighter than a cast iron pan)
