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Post by quattroll on Jul 22, 2020 20:50:42 GMT -5
Hi Lounge,
Recently I have been turned on to the Wyred4Sound Remedy, which is a reclocking device with a 5volt wall-wart. I have been really impressed with this product, and it can be used on 2 sources as it has a switch for opt or coax input. In reading up, I have noticed a lot of talk about the āneedā for quieter power.
Ideally I would go for a unit with at least two 5v outputs, Iām considering their usb reclocker too!
Any suggestions for lower priced alternatives? Wyred 4 sound has their own $600 solution. This kind of voodoo is not really what I go for.
Thanks.
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Post by novisnick on Jul 22, 2020 22:37:59 GMT -5
Hi there, quick question sir, if you believe this to be VooDoo (something we take very seriously down here in Louisiana, LOL) why then inquire about it? Wallwart will be fine. š¤ BUT, if you like me and so many others, a good reputable power supply does make a significant difference in SQ, personal opinion here but Iām not alone. You may want to look at sBooster to see if they have what your looking for. Iām using one for my Mytek Brooklyn and truly believe its been well worth it.
Good luck and please keep us all updated. š¶š¶šš¶š¶
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Jul 22, 2020 23:08:31 GMT -5
I'm going to make a single comment here - which I apply to re-clockers, power supplies, and most other such gadgets.
A well designed DAC should be able to deliver the performance it was designed to deliver with the input section and power supply it came with. A re-clocker is helping to compensate for a poor design in the input stage of the DAC itself... And an upgraded power supply is clearly intended to compensate for an original power supply that isn't good enough...
This is engineering and not magic... You may be able to get your car to run better by replacing $1 spark plugs with the $20 premium ones... But that is only true because the $1 ones actually performed badly...
But, if the $20 ones do the job properly, going up to $500 ones isn't going to make it work any better.
There is nothing INHERENTLY better about linear power supplies than switch mode power supplies... However, due to current technology, the absolute cheapest switch mode power supplies are cheaper than the absolute cheapest linear power supplies... It's also more difficult for an incompetent engineer to screw up a linear power supply than a switcher... (I leave you to draw your own conclusions from those facts.)
There is no technical reason why a USB RE-CLOCKER should produce any benefit whatsoever. A USB audio signal is packet based and does not have a reliable or consistent timing sequence. (Most "USB re-clockers" are merely high quality commercial USB hubs.)
For that reason any well designed modern DAC includes an asynchronous input stage - which totally re-clocks the incoming data anyway. (And, if it's working well, should render any possible benefit from re-clocking the USB packets totally moot.)
However many DACs are at least somewhat susceptible to noise that finds its way into their circuitry through the USB power rails. Therefore, a "USB re-clocker" that also filters the power as part of its operation has at least a chance of being useful.
(And, yes, many DACs do have design flaws... which can at least sometimes be mitigated by the addition of extra little gadgetry.)
Sadly many of the reasonably priced products in these categories... Which actually did offer at least some improvement for some DACs... Have been replaced by expensive snake oil...
The unfortunate bottom line is that some solutions in the $50 - $100 range may actually deliver a legitimate improvement in some cases. However it is very rare that spending more than that produces any difference much beyond lightening your wallet.
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Post by novisnick on Jul 23, 2020 1:42:26 GMT -5
I'm going to make a single comment here - which I apply to re-clockers, power supplies, and most other such gadgets.
A well designed DAC should be able to deliver the performance it was designed to deliver with the input section and power supply it came with. A re-clocker is helping to compensate for a poor design in the input stage of the DAC itself... And an upgraded power supply is clearly intended to compensate for an original power supply that isn't good enough...
This is engineering and not magic... You may be able to get your car to run better by replacing $1 spark plugs with the $20 premium ones... But that is only true because the $1 ones actually performed badly...
But, if the $20 ones do the job properly, going up to $500 ones isn't going to make it work any better.
There is nothing INHERENTLY better about linear power supplies than switch mode power supplies... However, due to current technology, the absolute cheapest switch mode power supplies are cheaper than the absolute cheapest linear power supplies... It's also more difficult for an incompetent engineer to screw up a linear power supply than a switcher... (I leave you to draw your own conclusions from those facts.)
There is no technical reason why a USB RE-CLOCKER should produce any benefit whatsoever. A USB audio signal is packet based and does not have a reliable or consistent timing sequence. (Most "USB re-clockers" are merely high quality commercial USB hubs.)
For that reason any well designed modern DAC includes an asynchronous input stage - which totally re-clocks the incoming data anyway. (And, if it's working well, should render any possible benefit from re-clocking the USB packets totally moot.)
However many DACs are at least somewhat susceptible to noise that finds its way into their circuitry through the USB power rails. Therefore, a "USB re-clocker" that also filters the power as part of its operation has at least a chance of being useful.
(And, yes, many DACs do have design flaws... which can at least sometimes be mitigated by the addition of extra little gadgetry.)
Sadly many of the reasonably priced products in these categories... Which actually did offer at least some improvement for some DACs... Have been replaced by expensive snake oil...
The unfortunate bottom line is that some solutions in the $50 - $100 range may actually deliver a legitimate improvement in some cases. However it is very rare that spending more than that produces any difference much beyond lightening your wallet.
@keithl I just love it! šš āI'm going to make a single comment hereā š¤ Just one, mind you! LOL Love your brevity my friend! |
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Post by 405x5 on Jul 23, 2020 9:57:05 GMT -5
Hi Lounge, Recently I have been turned on to the Wyred4Sound Remedy, which is a reclocking device with a 5volt wall-wart. I have been really impressed with this product, and it can be used on 2 sources as it has a switch for opt or coax input. In reading up, I have noticed a lot of talk about the āneedā for quieter power. Ideally I would go for a unit with at least two 5v outputs, Iām considering their usb reclocker too! Any suggestions for lower priced alternatives? Wyred 4 sound has their own $600 solution. This kind of voodoo is not really what I go for. Thanks. āVoodooā....glad YOU said it before I did, as that is essentially what both of those āsolutionsā are. Bill |
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Post by novisnick on Jul 23, 2020 10:17:35 GMT -5
Hi Lounge, Recently I have been turned on to the Wyred4Sound Remedy, which is a reclocking device with a 5volt wall-wart. I have been really impressed with this product, and it can be used on 2 sources as it has a switch for opt or coax input. In reading up, I have noticed a lot of talk about the āneedā for quieter power. Ideally I would go for a unit with at least two 5v outputs, Iām considering their usb reclocker too! Any suggestions for lower priced alternatives? Wyred 4 sound has their own $600 solution. This kind of voodoo is not really what I go for. Thanks. āVoodooā....glad YOU said it before I did, as that is essentially what both of those āsolutionsā are. Bill Iāve found more problems with a wall-wart then Iāve ever experienced with a better power supply. Overpriced? Most of them definitely are! But Voodoo, I think not. So we agree to disagree. God bless you. ā¤ļøš¶ |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Jul 23, 2020 10:21:52 GMT -5
Reclockers, linear power supplies, etc. are all computer audiophile BS. Makes the snake oil from years past look like kids stuff. š
Russ
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DYohn
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 18,485
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Post by DYohn on Jul 23, 2020 10:28:24 GMT -5
But Keith, if I don't buy whatever it takes to satisfy the current audio-buzzword compliant dohicky, how can I *KNOW* I'm getting the most from my gear?
/sarcasm
Good post above.
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DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,485
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Post by DYohn on Jul 23, 2020 11:00:06 GMT -5
Hi Lounge, Recently I have been turned on to the Wyred4Sound Remedy, which is a reclocking device with a 5volt wall-wart. I have been really impressed with this product, and it can be used on 2 sources as it has a switch for opt or coax input. In reading up, I have noticed a lot of talk about the āneedā for quieter power. Ideally I would go for a unit with at least two 5v outputs, Iām considering their usb reclocker too! Any suggestions for lower priced alternatives? Wyred 4 sound has their own $600 solution. This kind of voodoo is not really what I go for. Thanks. Contact Small Green Computer. They either have what you need or can build it for you. www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/linear-power-supplies |
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robs
Minor Hero
Posts: 52
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Post by robs on Jul 23, 2020 13:47:20 GMT -5
There is nothing INHERENTLY better about linear power supplies than switch mode power supplies...
Sorry Keith but that simply isn't true. SMPS are inherently noisy and in fact many times noisier than a regulated supply. You will see a huge amount of noise if you look at the FFT output as well as an RF probe. You will see a spectrum, not just the fundamental switching frequency. You get all sorts of electromagnetic artifacts by turning things on and off at high rates of speed. This is why commercial SMPS all have a Faraday cage. Using a linear supply with high capacitor storage is going to give you significantly more peak current than what you can draw from the wall at drastically higher delivery speed with zero lag and lower impedance. Clean and responsive power makes an audible difference. The only reason I see Emotiva using an SMPS in their power amps is because its cheap, not constrained to space or heat dissapation, its cheap, needs to be efficient, and its cheap. There are simply no good reasons why to use an SMPS over a good linear except for cost. |
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Post by quattroll on Jul 23, 2020 21:21:51 GMT -5
As I mentioned, Iām not a snake oil guy, and Iāve never bought cables for silly prices, just a minimum level of quality for solid connections and long life.
I had been using the DC-1 in asynchronous mode, and I am aware that is supposed to reclock things anyway. When I came across the Wyred4Sound remedy, I wanted to try it as it was designed for use with AppleTV. I have a family subscription and therefore I wanted to get the most out of the optical feed. So I decided to try it.
I plugged it in and was immediately impressed. I was wondering if it was going to be hard to discern, or perhaps only discernible with the right music etc. That is not the case. It is doing what it is supposed to, that is reclock and upsample, as the DC-1 displays 96k.
The sound seems richer, more detailed, and somehow more engaging. What is it doing? It may be giving the dac an easier load, as it doesnāt need to work on the incoming signal. Canāt say but I think everyone would hear the difference. Same thing using an Oppo 93 as a transport. Easy to detect as well.
So while I donāt go for most dubious improvements, I can say that the reclocking thing is real and could make a difference in your system. It canāt just be dismissed.
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Post by pedrocols on Jul 23, 2020 21:50:15 GMT -5
Hi Lounge, Recently I have been turned on to the Wyred4Sound Remedy, which is a reclocking device with a 5volt wall-wart. I have been really impressed with this product, and it can be used on 2 sources as it has a switch for opt or coax input. In reading up, I have noticed a lot of talk about the āneedā for quieter power. Ideally I would go for a unit with at least two 5v outputs, Iām considering their usb reclocker too! Any suggestions for lower priced alternatives? Wyred 4 sound has their own $600 solution. This kind of voodoo is not really what I go for. Thanks. āVoodooā....glad YOU said it before I did, as that is essentially what both of those āsolutionsā are. Bill How can you say something like that about a "The Remedy is a genuine game changer." |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,256
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Post by KeithL on Jul 24, 2020 18:18:40 GMT -5
I never said it was one short comment...  Although it does contain a single theme...
I'm going to make a single comment here - which I apply to re-clockers, power supplies, and most other such gadgets. A well designed DAC should be able to deliver the performance it was designed to deliver with the input section and power supply it came with. A re-clocker is helping to compensate for a poor design in the input stage of the DAC itself... And an upgraded power supply is clearly intended to compensate for an original power supply that isn't good enough...
This is engineering and not magic... You may be able to get your car to run better by replacing $1 spark plugs with the $20 premium ones... But that is only true because the $1 ones actually performed badly...
But, if the $20 ones do the job properly, going up to $500 ones isn't going to make it work any better.
There is nothing INHERENTLY better about linear power supplies than switch mode power supplies... However, due to current technology, the absolute cheapest switch mode power supplies are cheaper than the absolute cheapest linear power supplies... It's also more difficult for an incompetent engineer to screw up a linear power supply than a switcher... (I leave you to draw your own conclusions from those facts.) There is no technical reason why a USB RE-CLOCKER should produce any benefit whatsoever. A USB audio signal is packet based and does not have a reliable or consistent timing sequence. (Most "USB re-clockers" are merely high quality commercial USB hubs.)
For that reason any well designed modern DAC includes an asynchronous input stage - which totally re-clocks the incoming data anyway. (And, if it's working well, should render any possible benefit from re-clocking the USB packets totally moot.)
However many DACs are at least somewhat susceptible to noise that finds its way into their circuitry through the USB power rails. Therefore, a "USB re-clocker" that also filters the power as part of its operation has at least a chance of being useful.
(And, yes, many DACs do have design flaws... which can at least sometimes be mitigated by the addition of extra little gadgetry.)
Sadly many of the reasonably priced products in these categories... Which actually did offer at least some improvement for some DACs... Have been replaced by expensive snake oil... The unfortunate bottom line is that some solutions in the $50 - $100 range may actually deliver a legitimate improvement in some cases. However it is very rare that spending more than that produces any difference much beyond lightening your wallet. @keithl I just love it! šš āI'm going to make a single comment hereā š¤ Just one, mind you! LOL Love your brevity my friend! |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,256
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Post by KeithL on Jul 24, 2020 18:32:21 GMT -5
I should note that the Wyred4Sound Remedy box is currently $299 ....
And, assuming that their published measurements are true, which I have no reason to doubt, its performance is... respectable. It apparently up-scales from 16 bits to 24 bits... although, since you cannot actually manufacture information, I'm not sure why this is supposed to improve anything... They also show a measured output jitter of under 100 pS... which is respectable... and probably is audibly better than the 500 pS they show going in. (For comparison... the best performing $600 USB-to-S/PDIF converter I known of offers an output jitter of 8 pS. )
āVoodooā....glad YOU said it before I did, as that is essentially what both of those āsolutionsā are. Bill How can you say something like that about a "The Remedy is a genuine game changer." |
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Post by vcautokid on Jul 25, 2020 3:55:05 GMT -5
Science vs. Life. How much of what you connect to the component makes a positive difference for you? Power Supply tweaking always was interesting to me. It may have a panacea that is grand, or not so much. I think if the engineers do their job as Keith suggests it is done. Stop sweating it put some music on, and sit down shut up and listen.
For those of you that are constantly needing something to do, yeah, knock yourself out and buy what you want. What ever wiz bang Area 51 Alpha Centauri Prime thing with alien blood in it that reduces DC components or improves slew rate as a result of Zero Gravity micro automatons. Do I sound like I am making fun of you? Maybe, maybe not. You figure it out. You're pretty smart right? Hey Keith your flying saucer is double parked in the SR97 location. Military Police are having a nervy.
Oh yeah, by the way. This way to the Egress.
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Post by 405x5 on Jul 25, 2020 8:35:05 GMT -5
Science vs. Life. How much of what you connect to the component makes a positive difference for you? Power Supply tweaking always was interesting to me. It may have a panacea that is grand, or not so much. I think if the engineers do their job as Keith suggests it is done. Stop sweating it put some music on, and sit down shut up and listen. For those of you that are constantly needing something to do, yeah, knock yourself out and buy what you want. What ever wiz bang Area 51 Alpha Centauri Prime thing with alien blood in it that reduces DC components or improves slew rate as a result of Zero Gravity micro automatons. Do I sound like I am making fun of you? Maybe, maybe not. You figure it out. You're pretty smart right? Hey Keith your flying saucer is double parked in the SR97 location. Military Police are having a nervy. Oh yeah, by the way. This way to the Egress. I refer to most of whatās being discussed here as ācomponent cherry š pickingā. If you think your power supply is below par, or resort to reclocking the clocking, then IMHO, itās time to find a home for that component and go get something else. Life is too short to take micromanaging that far. Bill |
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