XPA-5 Gen 1 value?

[badsarge]

Greetings All!

My mighty XPA-5 G1 has finally tapped out.

After approx 12 years of faithful daily service she has apparently gasped a little blue magic smoke from the center channel output.

Ordered a new XPA-5 G3 last Friday. Anastasia was wonderful to work with over the phone!

She recommended sending the G1 in for inspection and possible repair.

$50 to ship, $300 minimum to refurb and then I would have two amps.

Steve the Tech guy said that the average life span of their amps was 5-7 years.

Don't really need 2 amps, but 4 channels are working right now.....she's a tough ol' beast!

My question is ultimately, "Is the G1 worth more than the repair scenario?"

What say you enlightened ones?? Thanks!!

[cawgijoe]

You could also have traded it in on the Gen 3. That’s what I did. I think they gave me $275 or so. Free shipping to send it in.

In working condition you could get $500 for the amp.

5-7 years? Really? That’s not good. My XPA-5 Gen 1 lasted eight years before an intermittent shut down issue.
IMO, they should last longer.

[badsarge]

cawgijoe,

Thanks for the reply.

I was not aware that trade ins were an option.

No mention during the call. My Grandfather got about 40 years out a refrigerator way back in the day.

They don't build 'em like that anymore. 12 years with a couple of popped fuses, pretty good track record for my Gen1.

It's running right now pushing 4 channels and sounds pretty darn good.

I'll install the Gen3 and box the Gen1. Investing $350 to reap a potential $150 isn't terrible if the right buyer is out there.

Did you discern an appreciable sonic difference between the Gen1 and Gen3 ?

[leonski]

The GENERAL rule is that a used 'something' is worth only what you can get for it. Book value is typically a myth or perhaps advisory at best.

I just sold a Naval Compass from WWII (1943 manufacture) and couldn't get anyone to bid let alone buy. But I contacted a reseller of naval salvage and

got a firm offer (after condition verification....send some photos!) of 300$. They should get maybe 500$ for it at resale, but that's ok. THEY have connections

I can't imagnine and people who look at their website for stuff.     The 'ask' on the website is over 600$.   

They even sent the shipper, though I did spend maybe 20$ or so on shipping materials....Bubble Wrap and a proper box as well as reinforced tape. The girl at the shipping

place took one look at my work and offered me a job.

[vcautokid]

Well beg to differ on amplifier life. If designed well, has good parts, clean power, not abused. The amplifier can last a very very long time. There are your requisite wear items like electrolytic capacitors that start to show their age years out. Easy to remedy. Amplifiers should really last a long time. Simple by nature and basic design goes back a long way. Class D Amplifiers of course the new wave. For what they do, mighty good too. But no, 5 to 7 years is I think a low average. 10 to 15 years is more like it with quality Amplifiers.

[leonski]

Gee, VC, I hate to agree with you 2x in a single day, but you're correct.
I myself had a Carver Cube for nearly 20 years. And my late 70s Kenwood KA-7100 integrated amp is STILL working fine. I'm about to ask for it BACK
from the folks I gave it to....they're not using it now....and I CAN.
Pass hisself is on record as saying the big PS 'lytics should go between 20 and 30 years. Actually, NOT running such caps is worse than daily use.

In a proper conservative design? I'd say an amp should go 20 years or more. Output tubes are an exception while low power tubes seem to last forever.
I have a 1950s Zenith Transoceanic which still has good tubes, but I'm having trouble with some of the strange caps.

[vcautokid]

To build even further any well designed electronics should last a long time. Mr. Carlson's Lab on youtube showcases some electronics back in the 20s 30s 40s and 50s that still after some maintenance goes to this day. If something will not go beyond 5 to 7 years, well how good is it folks. Stop making excuses that that is a good run B.S.! Know what you are buying. There is a reason things costs sometimes. You are investing in something made well, yeah not so easy to find for the common guy/gal today. It is out there. There are many amplifiers with a little love will out last a generation no problem, or any electronics. I saw a WWII radio with a Dynamotor inside for power still work after all these years. Needed some stuff, but minor really. Design and quality don't need excuses. Just a place for you to enjoy them for a long long time. I have a 1981 Aiwa Cassette Deck coming and looking at a Technics Cassette deck from that same era. I have a 1981 Teac reel to reel and a 1975 Tandberg Cassette Deck that needs some love too. My 1975 JVC KD-85 plays like it is 1975 all over again. If you do your part and the manufacturer does his part. A long happy relationship with your gear happens.

[rbk123]

Jul 26, 2020 13:45:16 GMT -5 badsarge said:

My question is ultimately, "Is the G1 worth more than the repair scenario?"

Definitely. I'd give you $350 for a fixed XPA-5 G1 in a heartbeat.

[leonski]

Only YOU can decide. Most shops will charge for an estimate than IF the repair is made, 'forget' the estimate.

When I've had stuff fixed, I FIRST set a 'not to exceed' price. If the estimate is under that price, go ahead and fix it.

I figure in cost of replacement, possible additional lifetime of the fixed piece and if it is something I want around in the future.

[405x5]

Jul 28, 2020 0:39:22 GMT -5 vcautokid said:

Well beg to differ on amplifier life. If designed well, has good parts, clean power, not abused. The amplifier can last a very very long time. There are your requisite wear items like electrolytic capacitors that start to show their age years out. Easy to remedy. Amplifiers should really last a long time. Simple by nature and basic design goes back a long way. Class D Amplifiers of course the new wave. For what they do, mighty good too. But no, 5 to 7 years is I think a low average. 10 to 15 years is more like it with quality Amplifiers.

I’m under no delusions, but I’m running the same amp. Since January of 2001 and no sign yet of it giving up the Ghost!

Bill

[kierre]

I'm sure they meant to say that the expected life-span of the amplifier 5 to 7 years without service or some sort of repair or service. Amplifiers are supposed to be the mainstay of systems saying hello and goodbye to pre-amp/processors as we switch them out to take advantage the latest and greatest updates. Give me 10 to 12 years and I would not be particularly upset if I have to replace it. I've had my XPA-5 Gen 1 since about 2011 (gonna have to check that but I'm close). It has been my go-to amp with every system configuration change. Perfect example of replacing gear around the amp while it continues to be backbone. I think if I was in your situation, I would purchase another amp, but repair the old one and put it back in a rack somewhere in the house to continue to use it.

[leonski]

Jul 28, 2020 23:06:13 GMT -5 405x5 said:

Jul 28, 2020 0:39:22 GMT -5 vcautokid said:

Well beg to differ on amplifier life. If designed well, has good parts, clean power, not abused. The amplifier can last a very very long time. There are your requisite wear items like electrolytic capacitors that start to show their age years out. Easy to remedy. Amplifiers should really last a long time. Simple by nature and basic design goes back a long way. Class D Amplifiers of course the new wave. For what they do, mighty good too. But no, 5 to 7 years is I think a low average. 10 to 15 years is more like it with quality Amplifiers.

I’m under no delusions, but I’m running the same amp. Since January of 2001 and no sign yet of it giving up the Ghost!

Bill

Used regularly, kept cool and not abused, (electrically), you are doing well.     I'd give you another 5 years THAN maybe, if all's well?   Replace the big PS caps....But inspect for bulges or leaks maybe sooner than later.   
I think such caps should be a DIY item, IF you can get the same form factor and ratings.    Best if you get 105c rated especially if the stock caps are rated lower.    

[405x5]

Jul 30, 2020 13:03:38 GMT -5 leonski said:

Jul 28, 2020 23:06:13 GMT -5 405x5 said:

I’m under no delusions, but I’m running the same amp. Since January of 2001 and no sign yet of it giving up the Ghost!

Bill

Used regularly, kept cool and not abused, (electrically), you are doing well.     I'd give you another 5 years THAN maybe, if all's well?   Replace the big PS caps....But inspect for bulges or leaks maybe sooner than later.   
I think such caps should be a DIY item, IF you can get the same form factor and ratings.    Best if you get 105c rated especially if the stock caps are rated lower.    

Both my Velodyne HGS plate amplifier and the Sunfire multi channel are well worth service restoration when the time comes. To that end, I keep tabs on where I want them to go. At the moment EBC electronics is where the plate amp. goes since Velodyne went belly up and Bill Flannery will get the Sunfire. He’s got a flat rate service on my particular amp.

[leonski]

Not that it much matters, but I'd guess that Velodyne does or DIDN'T build that amp. They had a contract built amp either 'stock' or 'semi-custom'.....Stuff like changing connector style or specifying a part of parts of the design. Question now is? CAN you get the Schematic?
Even my decade old HSU restricts the Schematics......Some kind of Fictional Agreement with their supplier. I even volunteered to sign a non-disclosure.....BS, I say!

Just for example? I think HSU Research (off my list!) made subs for Outlaw.....And maybe others as well.

Carver and his Sunfire? At least a standard form factor. My original (pre Sunfire) Carver Cube, the M400t, was like an electronic puzzle box. I ended up selling the sort-of-working amp than making the mistake of buying a Rotel.

IMO? Purchase of something new should INCLUDE the schematic. Back in the early 70s? Some of the than-new to market Japanese equpment CAME with an extensive manual with the electrical drawing included.....

[badsarge]

Really Good Day!!
Got all of my yard work completed yesterday, slept well and enjoyed a killer breakfast the dear wife prepared!
Fried eggs, bacon and grits! Exceptionally fine!

Pulled entertainment center away from wall, did a quick vacuum and prepared for removal/re-installation of new XPA-5 Gen 3.

Damn that Gen1 is HEAVY! Toroidal transformer is no joke. It was installed in this home approximately 9 years ago.

Found the original packing slip in the Gen 1 box. Purchase date 08/31/2009. Eleven years of faithful daily service.

I noticed some of the banana plugs were slightly tarnished. Might have to upgrade.

Overall, installation went smoothly. I'll let the Gen3 burn in a few days and attempt a little critical listening.

Wife says I'm selectively deaf but the music still moves me.

Hope everyone enjoys a happy, healthy weekend!

Sidebar: Just noticed the XMC-1 to XMC-2 trade up was available! SWEEEET!

[leonski]

Before a mindless upgrade? Get some DeOxit and do a clean / wipe of all tarnished connectors. OPEN UP the connector. If the copper wire is GREEN? That is oxidation and might have been what killed the amp......Copper oxide is actually a semiconductor AND was used in rectifiers a LONG time
ago...
It might be possible to trim the wire back to 'fresh' but maybe not. If you don't have the skillset? Time to learn. Find yourself a 14 year old to teach you.
I had a similar problem years ago. My wire was GREEN far down into the jacket. BAD. But by than it was too late. I pitched the wire and connectors.

[badsarge]

Thanx leonski!

Had to laugh, no 14 year olds around here!

I had plenty of wire left to strip back, re-twist and connect to bananas.

Found NO green oxidation.

Finished a degree in electronic engineering years ago. Plenty of tools on hand and a fair degree of capability.

Also kept my nursing license active in case I cut off a finger or allowed one my caps to discharge to peak with me as the ground

If I could attribute any primary factor to the Gen 1's deterioration would be the MULTIPLE lightning strikes we received a few years back.

Took out an old computer and monitor and some minor electronics.

Had the house professionally grounded and no subsequent problems. Knockin' wood.

As far as mindless upgrade, found a set of 10 banana plugs on Amazon for about $12.

No snake oil unobtanium for me!

Thanks again!

[leonski]

Aug 2, 2020 14:31:34 GMT -5 badsarge said:

Thanx leonski!

Had to laugh, no 14 year olds around here!

I had plenty of wire left to strip back, re-twist and connect to bananas.

Found NO green oxidation.

Finished a degree in electronic engineering years ago. Plenty of tools on hand and a fair degree of capability.

Also kept my nursing license active in case I cut off a finger or allowed one my caps to discharge to peak with me as the ground

If I could attribute any primary factor to the Gen 1's deterioration would be the MULTIPLE lightning strikes we received a few years back.

Took out an old computer and monitor and some minor electronics.

Had the house professionally grounded and no subsequent problems. Knockin' wood.

As far as mindless upgrade, found a set of 10 banana plugs on Amazon for about $12.

No snake oil unobtanium for me!

Thanks again!

You MIGHT have considered sending off to BlueJeans Cable for some expanding banana plugs.    I've used a set of 'em for years now,  I did the original setup of the cables since I bought everything AlaCarte.   There is a little space between cheap, mystery-metal and way overpriced stuff from you-kmow-who.     When I did spades, I went to the local stereo store and Borrowed their crimping tool and parked it on the floor in the listening room and terminated my cables.   

Your house needed a proper grounding?    A proper ground has been part of the NEC for decades or longer.    Lightning is always 'seeking ground', right?   So all the wiring in your house.....hot, neutral AND ground can be the path.....sometimes thru some piece of equipment.   Even PHONE and CABLE are potential entry points.    I was in Palm Springs a decade or more ago when a lighting storm blew thru.   EPIC.  This was summer and we had 2 major strikes within eye / earshot of our casa.  A MODEM (remember them?) was the only casualty.  That and a TREE around the corner which was destroyed.   Everybody OUT of the Pool!    For a couple hours, it was 100f with 99% humidity.   Awful.  

Sure, lightning is a bad player.     Depending on where you live, one solution is a Whole House surge suppressor.    Installed at the box, it is very near the Copper ground rod.  Such suppressors use MOVs which are a sacrificial device.    I'd go premium if I lived in Florida, for example.