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Post by monkumonku on Jul 26, 2020 16:55:48 GMT -5
For those of you who like to evaluate the technical aspects of audio gear claims, I ran across this new product from Transcendent Sound, a "Variable Gain Preamp" that is described as, The Slider - A True Innovation In Tube Technology - Variable Gain Preamp with Phono Stage - Zero Feedback Design. The product page is here: www.transcendentsound.com/slider.htmlAnd here's a picture:  Since I'm not big on technical stuff I was wondering if those of you who are would care to comment on the merits of what this product is claiming to do? |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 26, 2020 17:02:34 GMT -5
Without reading the description of what they mean by "variable gain," my first reaction was "Isn't that all preamps, and it's called a volume control?"
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Post by monkumonku on Jul 26, 2020 17:07:16 GMT -5
Without reading the description of what they mean by "variable gain," my first reaction was "Isn't that all preamps, and it's called a volume control?" Well that's what comes to mind first, but then on the product page the designer describes how his preamp differs from passive or conventional preamps, which seemed a bit confusing to me like at times it sounded like he was saying this preamp goes between a standard preamp and amp, but that isn't the case, it goes between the source and amp. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 26, 2020 17:21:07 GMT -5
Their design changes the input level to the tubes to control volume as well as using a potentiometer to control final output voltage. This design sounds like a gain control like a car audio amplifier uses to match amp gain structure to preamp output. But unlike a car audio amp it is adjustable on the fly. They claim it results in a higher S/N. Might be.
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Post by vcautokid on Jul 27, 2020 6:32:05 GMT -5
Nice measurements, but still unclear as it is using no local feedback for the gain stages. I am okay with that. I think it has to use some for the power supply though. Just a little. Probably explains the pretty nice measurements. How much of this is going to be a positive audible experience no one knows. Or there is no positive or any different experience at all. There is only one way to find out.
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Post by 405x5 on Jul 27, 2020 7:28:47 GMT -5
For those of you who like to evaluate the technical aspects of audio gear claims, I ran across this new product from Transcendent Sound, a "Variable Gain Preamp" that is described as, The Slider - A True Innovation In Tube Technology - Variable Gain Preamp with Phono Stage - Zero Feedback Design. The product page is here: www.transcendentsound.com/slider.htmlAnd here's a picture: Since I'm not big on technical stuff I was wondering if those of you who are would care to comment on the merits of what this product is claiming to do? I like the picture! It conjures up a vision of a designer who fell asleep in the middle and left half of what should be IN the box outside. Bill |
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Post by garbulky on Jul 27, 2020 8:14:05 GMT -5
The measurements aren't very good. ITs SNR is similar to that of a power amp. It also can't seem to do 2V output, their measurements are at 1 V. However, they mention that at "max gain" the distortion rises to 1% which is bad for preamps.
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Post by vcautokid on Jul 27, 2020 10:18:01 GMT -5
Not awful for vacuum tubes though garbulky. Perspective here. It is hard to get vacuum tubes very linear. But overall I have seen much much worse. Check out Conrad Johnson lately, now those are pretty awful measurements but people by 'em any way.
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Post by monkumonku on Jul 27, 2020 10:32:01 GMT -5
Well thanks everyone for your replies. I have no intention of getting one of these; I was just curious as to whether what this guy was describing was truly an advantage. Like it was pointed out, the only way to find out is to try it so maybe one of you will get one and report back.  |
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Post by mgbpuff on Jul 27, 2020 12:14:33 GMT -5
Looks like a nice design to me. The separate gain is, I think, to keep the main amplification stage in its most linear range. By the way tubes are very linear, especially low power tubes like in this preamp. That is why single ended designs were popular with tubes but not solid state; Tubes are more linear and do not necessarily need negative feedback to linearize them. This is only sold as a kit, so be advised. One feature I question is the unshielded transformer on the top; I would prefer a solid cage over it for less interference with other circuitry.
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Post by garbulky on Jul 27, 2020 12:45:02 GMT -5
Not awful for vacuum tubes though garbulky. Perspective here. It is hard to get vacuum tubes very linear. But overall I have seen much much worse. Check out Conrad Johnson lately, now those are pretty awful measurements but people by 'em any way. Well that's true. But a tube preamp can typically do better at distortion than a tube power amp. Sometimes the distortion has to be in the audible range (pretty high) to make a difference in the tube sound. So I can understand if they are imparting a "tube signature" to have it be in the 1% range. Plus it is zero feedback so higher distortion there. But tube preamps can be done for cheap with low distortion. Here is the schiit saga in tube mode ($350). THD+N 0.001% at 2 V  Here's the transendent ($549) THD 1% at max value. .2% at 1V  |
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Post by 405x5 on Jul 27, 2020 17:48:33 GMT -5
I had variable gain depending upon how much FUZZ got stuck in front of the needle! (those were the days)
Bill
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Post by vcautokid on Jul 27, 2020 21:55:12 GMT -5
I have no real issue with this product as I would never use it. Application you know. For a bit more I can get some piece of Schiit Freya Plus. It is more of my cup of tea. But the slider will pass me by.
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