Atmos Setup Recommendations?

[rogerlons]

Okay, so now that Dirac is available I finally pulled the trigger on my XMC-1 -> XMC-2 upgrade.  I haven't sent in my XMC-1 yet. so I have a little time to get my act together.  This is my room layout.  Notice that the sofa is against the back wall, and I don;t have an option to move things around.  My current setup is 7.1.  L/C/R in blue, sub is gray.  Rears are in-ceiling due to WAF.     Everything is NHT but the sub, so I won't have any matching issues.

  

 I have decided to move to Atmos with the XMC-2.  I purchased add-on height speakers for my mains (and an amp to power them), so my front heights are taken care of.  But the rears are in-ceiling, so moving them isn't really much of an option (it's possible, but it's real work). 

The way I see it, I have 2 options for the rears...  Option 1: Keep them the way they are, i.e. 7.1.2, and just use the front height speakers for Atmos.  Option 2: Reconfigure to use 2 of the rears (backs?) as rear height speakers, i.e. 5.1.4.  

Has anyone made this kind of migration?  Pros and cons of each?  Any advice for an Atmos newbie?  

[ttocs]

5.1.4

With your "Rears" where they are, 5.1.4 is the only setup that makes sense. I've got 12 feet behind the MLP so I've got lots of space between me and the Rears, and between me and the Sm Top Rears. Your sound is already overhead, so why not use that to advantage?

The angles are not optimum no matter which spec you try to follow, but 5.1.4 is the closest fit. Plus x.x.4 is a better usage of ATMOS than x.x.2.

[AudioHTIT]

I agree with ttocs, but it's also very easy to switch and try both.

[novisnick]

Yep! ^^^^^ what he said! 😁🎶

[markc]

Have a quick try of 5.1.2 using your ceiling speakers for height duty.
They are not optimally placed, but you would need to configure them as Top Middle and not top rear (which is more where they are)

If you Set Top Rear due to their Actual location without having Top Front then you will get very little redirected audio in them - only the height info from the rear channels and the rear channels don’t always have much in them anyway!

This also seems true of Atmos object audio - if you don’t have Top Front or Top Middle but only have rears, then you do not get most of the Atmos audio directed to the ceiling

[markc]

Ps. With the Emotiva amps like yours, you can easily flick the rear amplifier XLR/RCA switches to silence everything but the channels you want to audit.

Leave just the ceiling speakers getting an amp feed and silence the rest.

Play something. An Atmos track or a 7.1 track

You can switch from top Middle to Top front etc and just hear what portion of audio you get

[rogerlons]

Thanks for this - really appreciated. I have front height speakers - NHT made units that sit atop my 2.9's and "convert" them to being "Atmos-enabled"... So I have the fronts covered.

If I go the 5.1.4 route (with the top mids, most likely), then there's a secondary question. What (if anything) am I giving up going from 7.1 to 5.1.4? I know there's not that much in the surround back channels normally, but with some content there can be quite a bit back there. In all your experiences, is it worth it?

[ttocs]

Jul 31, 2020 13:14:27 GMT -5 rogerlons said:

If I go the 5.1.4 route (with the top mids, most likely), then there's a secondary question. What (if anything) am I giving up going from 7.1 to 5.1.4? I know there's not that much in the surround back channels normally, but with some content there can be quite a bit back there. In all your experiences, is it worth it?

I don't look at it as "giving up" anything, it's just a different experience. All good.

I haven't compared as yet, but I suspect there's more going on with all the Tops vs Surround Rears. I've listened to Tops Only and found that there's a lot of ambience and music going on, even though it's at a reduced volume.

I have never checked out what goes through the Top Middle vs Top Front/Rear so can't really comment on that. Although I thought the preference was supposed to be Top Front and Top Rear before using Top Middle. But maybe it doesn't make any difference? Don't know. Doesn't change where the physical speakers are in your case, so I don't know if it makes a difference.

Put another way, when using either Top Middle OR Top Rear, is the content running through them the same? I'll check that out this weekend. Should be interesting.

[markc]

Jul 31, 2020 13:14:27 GMT -5 rogerlons said:

Thanks for this - really appreciated. I have front height speakers - NHT made units that sit atop my 2.9's and "convert" them to being "Atmos-enabled"... So I have the fronts covered.

If I go the 5.1.4 route (with the top mids, most likely), then there's a secondary question. What (if anything) am I giving up going from 7.1 to 5.1.4? I know there's not that much in the surround back channels normally, but with some content there can be quite a bit back there. In all your experiences, is it worth it?

Given the position of your "rear Surrounds" you are missing nothing.

Part of the Atmos specification is that all bed channels should be at ear height and certainly not 1m (3ft) above the seated ear as used to be recommended.

If you don't height-separate your top and regular surround speakers you will not get the effect of Atmos.

I used to have my 2 side and 2 rear channels above ear height, and the side surrounds were dipoles.

I think that moving these down to seated-ear height direct radiators has done more for the surround illusion than the actual ceiling speakers.

Bottom line: Your supposed "rear surround"  placement has no role in a modern 7.1 setting and 5.1.4 will save you (including when using the Dolby Surround Upmixer channel interpolation)

[markc]

Jul 31, 2020 13:47:58 GMT -5 ttocs said:

Jul 31, 2020 13:14:27 GMT -5 rogerlons said:

If I go the 5.1.4 route (with the top mids, most likely), then there's a secondary question. What (if anything) am I giving up going from 7.1 to 5.1.4? I know there's not that much in the surround back channels normally, but with some content there can be quite a bit back there. In all your experiences, is it worth it?

I don't look at it as "giving up" anything, it's just a different experience. All good.

I haven't compared as yet, but I suspect there's more going on with all the Tops vs Surround Rears. I've listened to Tops Only and found that there's a lot of ambience and music going on, even though it's at a reduced volume.

I have never checked out what goes through the Top Middle vs Top Front/Rear so can't really comment on that. Although I thought the preference was supposed to be Top Front and Top Rear before using Top Middle. But maybe it doesn't make any difference? Don't know. Doesn't change where the physical speakers are in your case, so I don't know if it makes a difference.

Put another way, when using either Top Middle OR Top Rear, is the content running through them the same? I'll check that out this weekend. Should be interesting.

In a 7.1.2 and 5.1.2 Atmos configuration, Dolby specify the ceiling speakers (Or Dolby enable "sound-bouncers") should be set as Top Middle. This matches my perception when I assessed the actual output while playing Atmos tracks

Also note that the Dolby specification is also ONLY for ceiling speakers or Dolby Enabled "Sound-bouncers" having the same effect (and not wall mounted height speakers) with up to x.x.4.

Direct firing wall mounted height speakers have no place in Dolby's Atmos setups until you get into the realms of 9.1.6 to 11.1.8 when front and rear height speakers can play a role to augment the already established x.x.4 or x.x.6 ceiling speakers (Or Dolby enabled speakers).

[rogerlons]

Right - looks like I have a plan then. Now all I need is a new processor!