New Product! Airmotiv SE12 Subwoofer Now Available!

[gus4emo]

Sept 2, 2020 9:55:38 GMT -5 rbk123 said:

Correct, but now that "crossover'ed" signal enters another crossover for the speakers, hence the cascading.

The signal should come from the receiver full range, enters the speakers level in the sub, the sub will amplify let's say 80 and down, and spit out 80 and up through the speakers level outputs...

[rbk123]

Sept 2, 2020 11:30:25 GMT -5 gus4emo said:

The signal should come from the receiver full range, enters the speakers level in the sub, the sub will amplify let's say 80 and down, and spit out 80 and up through the speakers level outputs...

Again, correct. However, how do you think the sub amplifies 80 and down? The sub has a crossover to do that, so the original signal goes through the sub's X-over and then that signal goes through the speaker's X-over.

[KeithL]

To be quite honest we do NOT really expect you to connect both high level and line level (stereo or LFE) inputs to the sub.

(We don't particularly agree with Rel's idea that you need to connect your main outputs to the sub to make it sound right.)

We think that, if you have an LFE output, or a subwoofer output, with real bass management, then that's the best way to connect your sub.

We mostly included those speaker level inputs for people who don't have an LFE or subwoofer output.

Here are the scenarios where we expect most people to use those speaker level inputs:

1)

You have an AVR or amplifier that has only speaker outputs, and runs your main speakers just fine, but you want to add a sub.

In that case you can simply run an extra set of speaker cables to the speaker level inputs on the sub and use the controls on the sub to configure it.

No fuss, no muss, and it will work just fine.

2)

You have a low powered AVR that really doesn't have enough power to run your speakers very well.

And, while it works fine as a preamp/processor, it doesn't have preamp outputs where you can connect an external amp or a sub.

In that case, you can connect the speaker outputs to the speaker level inputs on our sub.

You can then use the controls on our sub to configure the sub.

And the line level OUTPUTS on the sub give you a set of preamp outputs, with real bass management, where you can connect a separate amp.

So, for instance, let's say you have a nice vintage 15 watt/channel stereo receiver, and you really like it...

And you just bought a nice new pair of T1's...

But 15 watts/channel really isn't enough...

And you want to add a sub...

Pick up a nice SE12...

Connect the speaker outputs on your receiver to the speaker level inputs on the SE12...

And add a nice power amp, like an A-300, to power your main speakers...

(Now you've got a system with plenty of power, a real sub, and real bass management.)

Aug 31, 2020 20:30:05 GMT -5 gus4emo said:

Aug 31, 2020 14:43:48 GMT -5 ttocs said:

There are no speaker outs because the subwoofer has no amplifier for other speakers. The one channel built-in amplifier is for the "heavy duty long throw downward firing powered driver". The sub also has a passive radiator that is not powered.
So,
You can use the "High Level" inputs which are loosely referred to as "speaker level" inputs which are wired to the speaker outputs of an amplifier or receiver.
Or,
You can use the "Stereo Line Level" inputs from the Line Level Outputs of a preamp.

Then, if you want to, you may use the "Line Level Outputs" to connect to an amplifier that powers other speakers.

Further, if this subwoofer is like my Rel and Sumiko subwoofers, you can use the LFE input concurrently with the High Level or Stereo Line Level input. Can't use the High Level and Line Level inputs at the same time. So to clarify, the LFE and High Level can be used simultaneously, or the LFE and Line Level can be used simultaneously.

Subs with speaker line outs will send the filtered signal that is already amplified by the original receiver...

[KeithL]

There really isn't a lot of call for non-powered subs as a product these days.

Most people prefer to have the amp built in...

Especially since purpose-built sub amps include features like limiters and active crossovers...

(Which are expensive and somewhat difficult to come by as separate devices.)

And, presumably, for people who really want to pursue that amount of custom design...

It isn't that difficult to buy a nice passive subwoofer driver and build a box for it.

Most of the DIYers I know LIKE building cabinets... and it's the electronics they prefer to avoid messing with.

(And, if you're going to buy a speaker in a box, then buy a purpose-designed plate amp somewhere else, then why buy them separately?)

Sept 2, 2020 5:21:32 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

A fine product - but I'd like to see a renewed BasX subwoofer line! In fact, if Emotiva wanted to save $$$ on their BasX subs, just omit the plate amp, offer an external crossover, & let users power the subs with better external amps.

[gus4emo]

Sept 2, 2020 12:37:31 GMT -5 rbk123 said:

Sept 2, 2020 11:30:25 GMT -5 gus4emo said:

The signal should come from the receiver full range, enters the speakers level in the sub, the sub will amplify let's say 80 and down, and spit out 80 and up through the speakers level outputs...

Again, correct. However, how do you think the sub amplifies 80 and down? The sub has a crossover to do that, so the original signal goes through the sub's X-over and then that signal goes through the speaker's X-over.

Exactly, the sub is feeding itself 80 and down, and sending 80 and up to the speakers, let's say the speakers go down to 60, they don't have to go down to 60 since they are getting 80 and up...

[rbk123]

Sept 2, 2020 13:40:56 GMT -5 gus4emo said:

Exactly, the sub is feeding itself 80 and down, and sending 80 and up to the speakers, let's say the speakers go down to 60, they don't have to go down to 60 since they are getting 80 and up...

You're missing my point. It's not what the speakers end up getting, it's the fact that the output to the main speakers ends up going through 2 cross-overs, sequentially. This is never a good thing.

[gus4emo]

Sept 2, 2020 13:04:26 GMT -5 KeithL said:

To be quite honest we do NOT really expect you to connect both high level and line level (stereo or LFE) inputs to the sub.

(We don't particularly agree with Rel's idea that you need to connect your main outputs to the sub to make it sound right.)

We think that, if you have an LFE output, or a subwoofer output, with real bass management, then that's the best way to connect your sub.

We mostly included those speaker level inputs for people who don't have an LFE or subwoofer output.

Here are the scenarios where we expect most people to use those speaker level inputs:

1)

You have an AVR or amplifier that has only speaker outputs, and runs your main speakers just fine, but you want to add a sub.

In that case you can simply run an extra set of speaker cables to the speaker level inputs on the sub and use the controls on the sub to configure it.

No fuss, no muss, and it will work just fine.

2)

You have a low powered AVR that really doesn't have enough power to run your speakers very well.

And, while it works fine as a preamp/processor, it doesn't have preamp outputs where you can connect an external amp or a sub.

In that case, you can connect the speaker outputs to the speaker level inputs on our sub.

You can then use the controls on our sub to configure the sub.

And the line level OUTPUTS on the sub give you a set of preamp outputs, with real bass management, where you can connect a separate amp.

So, for instance, let's say you have a nice vintage 15 watt/channel stereo receiver, and you really like it...

And you just bought a nice new pair of T1's...

But 15 watts/channel really isn't enough...

And you want to add a sub...

Pick up a nice SE12...

Connect the speaker outputs on your receiver to the speaker level inputs on the SE12...

And add a nice power amp, like an A-300, to power your main speakers...

(Now you've got a system with plenty of power, a real sub, and real bass management.)

Aug 31, 2020 20:30:05 GMT -5 gus4emo said:

Subs with speaker line outs will send the filtered signal that is already amplified by the original receiver...

So an old receiver would have to split the speakers level outputs to send the signal to both the sub and speakers?

[gus4emo]

Sept 2, 2020 13:49:06 GMT -5 rbk123 said:

Sept 2, 2020 13:40:56 GMT -5 gus4emo said:

Exactly, the sub is feeding itself 80 and down, and sending 80 and up to the speakers, let's say the speakers go down to 60, they don't have to go down to 60 since they are getting 80 and up...

You're missing my point. It's not what the speakers end up getting, it's the fact that the output to the main speakers ends up going through 2 cross-overs, sequentially. This is never a good thing.

I'm not, so a preamp-pro sending signal to a sub and amp is not the same as the sub getting a full signal and cross it, like the preamp just did on the other set up?

[rbk123]

Sept 2, 2020 21:42:24 GMT -5 gus4emo said:

I'm not, so a preamp-pro sending signal to a sub and amp is not the same as the sub getting a full signal and cross it, like the preamp just did on the other set up?

A signal that goes through 2 or more consecutive crossovers is not the same as a signal that only goes through 1. By going through the sub's crossover and then into the speaker's crossover, you are violating that rule. It's why DSP's came about, and it's why Boom made his suggestion of a line of non-powered subs. Research cascading crossovers.
It will work, it's just a bad sonic practice.