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Post by 405x5 on Sept 9, 2020 17:04:22 GMT -5
A mat can definitely make a difference in sound. I have an original Rega Planar 2 turntable. My dealer gave me a Platter Matter mat. I literally could not believe the difference. Of course, turntables are subject to all kinds of voodoo. I agree. Since not much happened initially in this thread, I decided to try the other alternatives. As I said, The acrylic outperformed both the original felt (worst) and cork (better noise reduction, less dynamic range). I received a rubber matt and also leather and tried those too. Now I have watched many videos on proper set up, and I have the tools to set VTA, Azimuth, Anti Skate, tonearm weight, etc. and therefore I feel my results are true for my set up. The rubber may have been a tiny bit higher, I’ll check that again. In general, the rubber introduced a lot of flabby bass and reduced highs. The leather was similar to the cork, maybe a little better, but still lacking the lower tighter bass and clearer high end. I would also say that the soundstage widened and there was better imaging with the acrylic vs all the other alternatives. The leather had the downside of not settling perfectly, therefore it introduced some wobble. I urge anyone looking to improve their turntable to consider mat selection and to familiarize yourself with the key adjustments that can bring your set up to life. An affordable cartridge upgrade can be big too, I got that with a Nagoaka MP110. Another key is to level your turntable with a ball bearing. I used a 1 inch steel bearing to set my table absolutely level. A bubble will not be precise enough. At the very least I have my turntable sounding great, without spending much, and I really have to wonder how much better it can really get without turning silly. Have you seen Analog Planet tour those international shows? Unbelievable what’s out there! Your entire “theory” is upside down. The vinyl disc itself is all the damping that can be had. The upside down comes from the only resonance control you may have which comes from the material used in the fabrication of the tonearm itself. A tonearm with superior damping adjustment can track a visibly warped record nearly inaudible, and again no worries regarding the mat. |
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Post by fbczar on Sept 10, 2020 19:39:47 GMT -5
A mat can definitely make a difference in sound. I have an original Rega Planar 2 turntable. My dealer gave me a Platter Matter mat. I literally could not believe the difference. Of course, turntables are subject to all kinds of voodoo. I agree. Since not much happened initially in this thread, I decided to try the other alternatives. As I said, The acrylic outperformed both the original felt (worst) and cork (better noise reduction, less dynamic range). I received a rubber matt and also leather and tried those too. Now I have watched many videos on proper set up, and I have the tools to set VTA, Azimuth, Anti Skate, tonearm weight, etc. and therefore I feel my results are true for my set up. The rubber may have been a tiny bit higher, I’ll check that again. In general, the rubber introduced a lot of flabby bass and reduced highs. The leather was similar to the cork, maybe a little better, but still lacking the lower tighter bass and clearer high end. I would also say that the soundstage widened and there was better imaging with the acrylic vs all the other alternatives. The leather had the downside of not settling perfectly, therefore it introduced some wobble. I urge anyone looking to improve their turntable to consider mat selection and to familiarize yourself with the key adjustments that can bring your set up to life. An affordable cartridge upgrade can be big too, I got that with a Nagoaka MP110. Another key is to level your turntable with a ball bearing. I used a 1 inch steel bearing to set my table absolutely level. A bubble will not be precise enough. At the very least I have my turntable sounding great, without spending much, and I really have to wonder how much better it can really get without turning silly. Have you seen Analog Planet tour those international shows? Unbelievable what’s out there! My Rega Planar 2 has a glass platter. I assume the mat and the platter combination, rather than just the mat, is the big consideration. |
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Post by bigmule on Sept 17, 2020 4:51:04 GMT -5
“A mat can definitely make a difference in sound. I have an original Rega Planar 2 turntable. My dealer gave me a Platter Matter mat. I literally could not believe the difference. Of course, turntables are subject to all kinds of voodoo.“ I wish I had a nickel for every time in this game, I heard those words:”I literally could not believe the difference”. What I can’t get over is the lengths people will go to, or the time spent on things that can’t possibly make a difference except, in that part of the brain 🧠 that’s simply bored to tears 😭. Now if you want to latch onto something that truly is the Cats Ass, grab some of these risers! Why take are you taking time out of your day to make negative comments??? I've noticed you are consistently chirping comments that actually add little value to the topic. I'm confused, what is your true motivation? Just because YOU cannot hear a difference in record mats, does not substantiate if a record mat can or cannot make a difference. |
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Post by novisnick on Sept 17, 2020 8:43:20 GMT -5
I wish I had a nickel for every time in this game, I heard those words:”I literally could not believe the difference”. What I can’t get over is the lengths people will go to, or the time spent on things that can’t possibly make a difference except, in that part of the brain 🧠 that’s simply bored to tears 😭. Now if you want to latch onto something that truly is the Cats Ass, grab some of these risers! Why take are you taking time out of your day to make negative comments??? I've noticed you are consistently chirping comments that actually add little value to the topic. I'm confused, what is your true motivation? Just because YOU cannot hear a difference in record mats, does not substantiate if a record mat can or cannot make a difference. I agree with you bigmule ! Pissing in somebody’s beer is not very becoming! 😢 |
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 17, 2020 9:31:11 GMT -5
Static buildup is the ONLY thing that a different cover for your platter can affect....And ironically so, it’s the only thing that has been overlooked throughout this entire thread.
Anyone who’s been at this game long enough knows the drill and what CAN and does happen, depending upon the listening environment, the carpet (or lack of it,) relative humidity, etc.
Static build up often permanently damages records with embedded dirt that may or may not ever come out.
Some mats end up sticking to the record.
Have you ever walked up to your system and received a welcoming static shock that gave you more than something to think about?
No clear cut solutions here, except methodical, common sense approach to it.
Bill
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Post by DavidR on Sept 17, 2020 11:04:13 GMT -5
Why take are you taking time out of your day to make negative comments??? I've noticed you are consistently chirping comments that actually add little value to the topic. I'm confused, what is your true motivation? Just because YOU cannot hear a difference in record mats, does not substantiate if a record mat can or cannot make a difference. It's called an opinion and is what a forum discussion is all about. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Sept 17, 2020 11:05:06 GMT -5
I'm sorry but you are incorrect.
You are referring specifically to low-frequency resonance effects between record warp, the suspension, and the tonearm. And these most certainly can be, and often are, an issue.
And you are correct that the material which the mat is made of will have little effect on those.
However, the album itself is a thin sheet of vinyl... and, as such, it does act as a diaphragm. Therefore, it can both pick up vibrations from the air, and vibrate on its own due to forces exerted by the stylus as it plays the record. And, of course, it will also transmit vibration from the turntable motor, and vibrations from whatever the turntable is sitting on (those that the suspension fails to block).
(We're talking about audio frequencies... not subsonic frequencies associated with rumble or record warp.)
And, to make matters even worse, most albums have a raised edge...
So, if you place them on a platter with a hard surface, a distinct gap may exist between the main body of the record and the platter underneath. (Even if no gap exists the record may be more suspended by its edges than resting in close contact with the mat across its entire surface.)
You then have a diaphragm, sitting on top of a small chamber, which is an invitation for the diaphragm to both vibrate and resonate. This is one reason why squishy mats, and soft foam mats, which eliminate this gap, may perform better than hard surfaces in some cases. All of these resonances and vibrations have the potential to audibly color the sound.
It is also true that, at least in the past, static was widely understood to be an issue, and often addressed. For example, many felt and foam mats were impregnated with conductive materials or fibers to drain off static. (Which, of course, doesn't work if the platter itself is non-conductive.)
There are also a wide variety of: - record cleaning brushes with conductive bristles to drain surface static charges - anti-static cleaning solutions that drain static when you use them - anti-static record treatments (some of which may leave a residue or actually damage the surface of the record)
- ion-gun devices, like the ZeroStat, which use streams of airborne ions to neutralize static - combination devices, like brushes with conductive bristles and built-in ion sources
Many people consider an anti-static conductive felt mat, placed over a conductive metal platter,
to provide the best overall combination of support, static suppression, and damping. (There are lots of them available - starting at about $15 - and many of the cheap ones probably work just as well as the expensive ones...)
Of course, the vertical tracking angle adjustment on your turntable depends in part on the combined height of the platter and mat you are using at the time... So adding an extra mat, or replacing the one you have with a substantially thicker or thinner one, will require that to be readjusted for proper operation.
I agree. Since not much happened initially in this thread, I decided to try the other alternatives. As I said, The acrylic outperformed both the original felt (worst) and cork (better noise reduction, less dynamic range). I received a rubber matt and also leather and tried those too. Now I have watched many videos on proper set up, and I have the tools to set VTA, Azimuth, Anti Skate, tonearm weight, etc. and therefore I feel my results are true for my set up. The rubber may have been a tiny bit higher, I’ll check that again. In general, the rubber introduced a lot of flabby bass and reduced highs. The leather was similar to the cork, maybe a little better, but still lacking the lower tighter bass and clearer high end. I would also say that the soundstage widened and there was better imaging with the acrylic vs all the other alternatives. The leather had the downside of not settling perfectly, therefore it introduced some wobble. I urge anyone looking to improve their turntable to consider mat selection and to familiarize yourself with the key adjustments that can bring your set up to life. An affordable cartridge upgrade can be big too, I got that with a Nagoaka MP110. Another key is to level your turntable with a ball bearing. I used a 1 inch steel bearing to set my table absolutely level. A bubble will not be precise enough. At the very least I have my turntable sounding great, without spending much, and I really have to wonder how much better it can really get without turning silly. Have you seen Analog Planet tour those international shows? Unbelievable what’s out there! Your entire “theory” is upside down. The vinyl disc itself is all the damping that can be had. The upside down comes from the only resonance control you may have which comes from the material used in the fabrication of the tonearm itself. A tonearm with superior damping adjustment can track a visibly warped record nearly inaudible, and again no worries regarding the mat. |
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Post by DavidR on Sept 17, 2020 11:09:29 GMT -5
Static buildup is the ONLY thing that a different cover for your platter can affect....And ironically so, it’s the only thing that has been overlooked throughout this entire thread. Anyone who’s been at this game long enough knows the drill and what CAN and does happen, depending upon the listening environment, the carpet (or lack of it,) relative humidity, etc. Static build up often permanently damages records with embedded dirt that may or may not ever come out. Some mats end up sticking to the record. Have you ever walked up to your system and received a welcoming static shock that gave you more than something to think about? No clear cut solutions here, except methodical, common sense approach to it. Bill Actually I mentioned static build up from using an acrylic platter with a rubber belt drive. Also many other items not mentioned. Notably wow and flutter. Belt drive vs direct drive. If your TT doesn't allow for vertical tone arm adjustment then adding a different mat could throw the stylus alignment off. Just sayin'
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 17, 2020 13:54:52 GMT -5
Sorry, but I just don't get the acrylic platter thing. Since most of you are probably using a rubber-band belt drive TT it just sounds like a static generator to me. As for the mat I always felt it is just there to protect your vinyl record while keeping it in place and has nothing to do with sonic performance.
Ooops David, I never thought about belt drive adding to the list of static generating scenarios, though I suppose that could happen also. Bill |
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jy
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Post by jy on Jan 3, 2021 14:58:25 GMT -5
I have an old wooden floor in my home and walking near my turntable made my stylus jump.
The suspension of my Fluance is not as "soft" as some others, so I decided to go with an isolating mat rather than a heavy one – I noticed two schools of thought, the "record in the air to isolate unwanted vibrations" and the "block of concrete to absorb unwanted vibrations"... I didn't want to go with a block of concrete under my turntable!
I bought the yellow Hexmat, which has the same thickness of my original rubber mat. I've been happy with it, I noticed a slight improvement of the sound (I hear a difference when comparing both, but I know there are psychological biases when doing such tests) and a significative effect on stylus jumping.
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 3, 2021 16:58:17 GMT -5
I have an old wooden floor in my home and walking near my turntable made my stylus jump. The suspension of my Fluance is not as "soft" as some others, so I decided to go with an isolating mat rather than a heavy one – I noticed two schools of thought, the "record in the air to isolate unwanted vibrations" and the "block of concrete to absorb unwanted vibrations"... I didn't want to go with a block of concrete under my turntable! I bought the yellow Hexmat, which has the same thickness of my original rubber mat. I've been happy with it, I noticed a slight improvement of the sound (I hear a difference when comparing both, but I know there are psychological biases when doing such tests) and a significative effect on stylus jumping. LOL.....😜🤪😚😍😙😙🤨🧐😋....(fix the floor)....not the mat |
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Post by brutiarti on Jan 3, 2021 17:55:53 GMT -5
I have an old wooden floor in my home and walking near my turntable made my stylus jump. The suspension of my Fluance is not as "soft" as some others, so I decided to go with an isolating mat rather than a heavy one – I noticed two schools of thought, the "record in the air to isolate unwanted vibrations" and the "block of concrete to absorb unwanted vibrations"... I didn't want to go with a block of concrete under my turntable! I bought the yellow Hexmat, which has the same thickness of my original rubber mat. I've been happy with it, I noticed a slight improvement of the sound (I hear a difference when comparing both, but I know there are psychological biases when doing such tests) and a significative effect on stylus jumping. Vibrapods under a heavy platform. Problem solved |
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jy
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Post by jy on Jan 4, 2021 0:46:27 GMT -5
LOL.....😜🤪😚😍😙😙🤨🧐😋....(fix the floor)....not the mat Ah ah yes! I'm only a tenant. Ideally, I should buy the building, change the floor, the subfloor and the joinsts... not the same price  But seriously, I know that it is approaching the problem the wrong way round. But it was easier and cheaper than changing how my living room is organized (small room, three doors). Vibrapods under a heavy platform. Problem solved I will consider this solution. Maybe directly under my bureau will be enough, without the need of an extra platform. Thanks! |
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 4, 2021 7:28:22 GMT -5
LOL.....😜🤪😚😍😙😙🤨🧐😋....(fix the floor)....not the mat Ah ah yes! I'm only a tenant. Ideally, I should buy the building, change the floor, the subfloor and the joinsts... not the same price But seriously, I know that it is approaching the problem the wrong way round. But it was easier and cheaper than changing how my living room is organized (small room, three doors). Vibrapods under a heavy platform. Problem solved I will consider this solution. Maybe directly under my bureau will be enough, without the need of an extra platform. Thanks! Seriously, I had once experienced the same problem. (Could not walk past without a skip.) Most landlords will allow some minor hole drilling in walls for anchors, etc. If you can clear that with them, and come up with a place in the room that the turntable could be on a load bearing wall (ideally) you could support the turntable from there and not rely on the floor....a worthwhile effort if permitted. Bill |
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 4, 2021 7:31:53 GMT -5
Ah ah yes! I'm only a tenant. Ideally, I should buy the building, change the floor, the subfloor and the joinsts... not the same price But seriously, I know that it is approaching the problem the wrong way round. But it was easier and cheaper than changing how my living room is organized (small room, three doors). I will consider this solution. Maybe directly under my bureau will be enough, without the need of an extra platform. Thanks! Seriously, I had once experienced the same problem. (Could not walk past without a skip.) Most landlords will allow some minor hole drilling in walls for anchors, etc. If you can clear that with them, and come up with a place in the room that the turntable could be shelved on a load bearing wall (ideally) you could support the turntable from there and not rely on the floor....a worthwhile effort if permitted. Bill |
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jy
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Post by jy on Jan 5, 2021 16:43:30 GMT -5
Seriously, I had once experienced the same problem. (Could not walk past without a skip.) Most landlords will allow some minor hole drilling in walls for anchors, etc. If you can clear that with them, and come up with a place in the room that the turntable could be on a load bearing wall (ideally) you could support the turntable from there and not rely on the floor....a worthwhile effort if permitted. Bill I have a stud finder, so I can screw a support directly on the wooden wall studs: small holes and maximal support. To be honest, I've got my turntable since August only, and I'd completely forgotten your suggestion that I read somewhere else. I think I can find or make something that is still aesthetic and matches the style of my living room. Thanks  |
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 5, 2021 16:58:58 GMT -5
Seriously, I had once experienced the same problem. (Could not walk past without a skip.) Most landlords will allow some minor hole drilling in walls for anchors, etc. If you can clear that with them, and come up with a place in the room that the turntable could be on a load bearing wall (ideally) you could support the turntable from there and not rely on the floor....a worthwhile effort if permitted. Bill I have a stud finder, so I can screw a support directly on the wooden wall studs: small holes and maximal support. To be honest, I've got my turntable since August only, and I'd completely forgotten your suggestion that I read somewhere else. I think I can find or make something that is still aesthetic and matches the style of my living room. Thanks My last two locations where I spun records (done with that) were both concrete floored basement rooms (problem solved). My turntable was designed with the platter isolated from the base. It performed as advertised that you could strike the base with no skipping record. But once again, with a shaky floor, all bets are off. You need to be older to get this, but the earliest CD players (before buffering) were nearly as susceptible to vibration errors as record playback! Bill |
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Post by housetech on Nov 22, 2021 17:07:06 GMT -5
I tried a leather mat and hated it, all my music suddenly had a country- western twang to it.  |
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Post by 405x5 on Nov 23, 2021 18:34:04 GMT -5
I tried a leather mat and hated it, all my music suddenly had a country- western twang to it. If memory serves, I had three mats all together during my stint with records. Replaced out of necessity, the first one made of foam was falling apart (rotting I guess). The others were an attempt to remove the record without static cling bringing the record with it. All of that crap is an unimaginable hassle that is very liberating indeed to be free of. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2023 10:00:24 GMT -5
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