Do I need a Mini dsp with 2 subs on a XMC-2?

[danblack]

Hello, so just wondering do I need to use a mini dsp on my XMC-2 with 2 subs with Dirac? I have it set as middle and left mono now and it honestly sounds very good. But haven't ran Dirac yet.

[bluescale]

That's not a clear yes or no question. The correct answer is, it depends. Are your subs equidistant to the main listening position? If so, then it's less needed. Do you want any of the additional features miniDSP gives you (PEQ on top of Dirac; additional distance flexibility; ability to run BEQ; etc...)?

[dust770]

Essentially the mini DSP would be used to time align your two subs to create "one" sub. Then you would use dirac to correct the two summed responses. If you use the equalizer within the mini DSP and then run dirac afterwards it will create some crazy results. I experimented with this for quite some time and I believe it was Keith that chimed in and said two filters on top of each other create unpredictable results. If your subwoofers have delay knobs on them, you can timeline them without the need of a mini DSP. You still will need to be able to run REW to make sure they are time aligned though. If your subs are equal distance as bluescale mentioned it shouldn't be necessary. But if one is closer to the main listening position than the other you will need to adjust delay on the sub that's closest to the main listening position. If only one of your subs has a delay knob then put it closest to the MLP so you can adjust delay. This video does an excellent job of walking you through the way to use a mini dip with rew and multiple subs. youtu.be/_A6gPCczhuU

[megash0n]

Sept 28, 2020 16:07:05 GMT -5 dust770 said:

Essentially the mini DSP would be used to time align your two subs to create "one" sub. Then you would use dirac to correct the two summed responses. If you use the equalizer within the mini DSP and then run dirac afterwards it will create some crazy results. I experimented with this for quite some time and I believe it was Keith that chimed in and said two filters on top of each other create unpredictable results. If your subwoofers have delay knobs on them, you can timeline them without the need of a mini DSP. You still will need to be able to run REW to make sure they are time aligned though. If your subs are equal distance as bluescale mentioned it shouldn't be necessary. But if one is closer to the main listening position than the other you will need to adjust delay on the sub that's closest to the main listening position. If only one of your subs has a delay knob then put it closest to the MLP so you can adjust delay. This video does an excellent job of walking you through the way to use a mini dip with rew and multiple subs. youtu.be/_A6gPCczhuU

something that I feel like gets missed a lot, or it is just assumed that everyone knows, is that one may not want to time align. It depends on what you are trying to accomplish. This is why miniDSP is more flexible. You may find that adjusting the delay in a non-aligned way fills a void or takes a peak. In a lot of cases, dual subs within the LR, and on the same plane, can produce good results, but no where near optimal without tweaking. Dirac, in Emotiva's implementation, had no idea what to do with multiple subs in relation to one another. Whether it sounds good to you or not is what is important, but when considering the flattest response across the entire seating around, you'll need more than 2 and something far more tailored than what the G3P can currently do.

[bluescale]

Sept 28, 2020 16:07:05 GMT -5 dust770 said:

If you use the equalizer within the mini DSP and then run dirac afterwards it will create some crazy results. I experimented with this for quite some time and I believe it was Keith that chimed in and said two filters on top of each other create unpredictable results.

That’s not necessarily true. It’s easy to cause problems, and hard to make things better, but you can use the EQ alongside Dirac without crazy results. I used to do it with excellent results, but over time I came to the conclusion it was mostly unnecessary in my room.

[dust770]

Sept 28, 2020 16:37:38 GMT -5 megash0n said:

Sept 28, 2020 16:07:05 GMT -5 dust770 said:

Essentially the mini DSP would be used to time align your two subs to create "one" sub. Then you would use dirac to correct the two summed responses. If you use the equalizer within the mini DSP and then run dirac afterwards it will create some crazy results. I experimented with this for quite some time and I believe it was Keith that chimed in and said two filters on top of each other create unpredictable results. If your subwoofers have delay knobs on them, you can timeline them without the need of a mini DSP. You still will need to be able to run REW to make sure they are time aligned though. If your subs are equal distance as bluescale mentioned it shouldn't be necessary. But if one is closer to the main listening position than the other you will need to adjust delay on the sub that's closest to the main listening position. If only one of your subs has a delay knob then put it closest to the MLP so you can adjust delay. This video does an excellent job of walking you through the way to use a mini dip with rew and multiple subs. youtu.be/_A6gPCczhuU

something that I feel like gets missed a lot, or it is just assumed that everyone knows, is that one may not want to time align. It depends on what you are trying to accomplish. This is why miniDSP is more flexible. You may find that adjusting the delay in a non-aligned way fills a void or takes a peak. In a lot of cases, dual subs within the LR, and on the same plane, can produce good results, but no where near optimal without tweaking. Dirac, in Emotiva's implementation, had no idea what to do with multiple subs in relation to one another. Whether it sounds good to you or not is what is important, but when considering the flattest response across the entire seating around, you'll need more than 2 and something far more tailored than what the G3P can currently do.

Agreed and even though I got my two subs aligned I ended up preferring a single sub in my room. The mini dsp definitely gives you more options and it is very easy to make minor adjustments and listen to the results in real-time which is also nice.

[ttocs]

Sept 22, 2020 16:43:45 GMT -5 danblack said:

Hello, so just wondering do I need to use a mini dsp on my XMC-2 with 2 subs with Dirac? I have it set as middle and left mono now and it honestly sounds very good. But haven't ran Dirac yet.

If you ever plan to use Dirac with subwoofers then you will need to use the Left and Right Subwoofer Outputs and set the "Left/Right Subs" setting in the processor Menu to DUAL MONO.

This has been mentioned numerous times in the Dirac thread. There's a bug in the firmware that allows Dirac to "see" a Right Subwoofer and expects to be able to measure it, so if it's not there Dirac will throw an error. In normal usage there is no sound sent to the Right Subwoofer Output when the "Left/Right Subs" setting in the processor Menu is set to Mono.

So don't use the Center Sub Output, use the Left and Right Sub Outputs instead, set to Dual Mono. Firmware fix is on the list for future release.

[steelman1991]

Sept 29, 2020 7:33:34 GMT -5 ttocs said:

Sept 22, 2020 16:43:45 GMT -5 danblack said:

Hello, so just wondering do I need to use a mini dsp on my XMC-2 with 2 subs with Dirac? I have it set as middle and left mono now and it honestly sounds very good. But haven't ran Dirac yet.

If you ever plan to use Dirac with subwoofers then you will need to use the Left and Right Subwoofer Outputs and set the "Left/Right Subs" setting in the processor Menu to DUAL MONO.

This has been mentioned numerous times in the Dirac thread. There's a bug in the firmware that allows Dirac to "see" a Right Subwoofer and expects to be able to measure it, so if it's not there Dirac will throw an error. In normal usage there is no sound sent to the Right Subwoofer Output when the "Left/Right Subs" setting in the processor Menu is set to Mono.

So don't use the Center Sub Output, use the Left and Right Sub Outputs instead, set to Dual Mono. Firmware fix is on the list for future release.

Even where a “y” cable is used from the centre sub output?

[ttocs]

Sept 29, 2020 8:22:14 GMT -5 steelman1991 said:

Sept 29, 2020 7:33:34 GMT -5 ttocs said:

If you ever plan to use Dirac with subwoofers then you will need to use the Left and Right Subwoofer Outputs and set the "Left/Right Subs" setting in the processor Menu to DUAL MONO.

This has been mentioned numerous times in the Dirac thread. There's a bug in the firmware that allows Dirac to "see" a Right Subwoofer and expects to be able to measure it, so if it's not there Dirac will throw an error. In normal usage there is no sound sent to the Right Subwoofer Output when the "Left/Right Subs" setting in the processor Menu is set to Mono.

So don't use the Center Sub Output, use the Left and Right Sub Outputs instead, set to Dual Mono. Firmware fix is on the list for future release.

Even where a “y” cable is used from the centre sub output?

Using the Center Sub only works fine. That's what I use.

The Dirac issue is only when setting the Left/Right Subs to Mono.