ericb
Minor Hero
Posts: 13
|
Post by ericb on Oct 20, 2020 6:49:06 GMT -5
Good morning friends, I am and have been struggling with a few concepts on creating to the best of my ability a home theater / living space. Let me start from the beginning, In my youth I was a basshead car audio guru and DJ alike. Home audio has always been 2.0 stereo and loud until about 6 years ago. I bought my first 5.1 it was and still is a Emotiva Fusion 8100 paired with Energy RC micro 5.1's. For the apartment sized area I previously had before getting married it was great. Since then 4k has becoming a thing and here 8k is in the mist, I am married and we built our house. In doing so I pre-wire for a 7.1 And honestly wish I could go back knowing what I know now are redo the areas for wiring. Anywho it's done, no turning back. Lets get into the specs, requests, ideas and options, the meat of it all. Open concept living room, kitchen, dinning room with vaulted ceilings 24'10" x 21'10" for the total size of it all. Actual size of the living space would be roughly 18'x15'. After much research and newer technologies I feel a 5.2.4 would be what I would like to accomplish but before we get to speaker layout and processing let me explain the problems first. 1. My wife hates the idea of a home theater. The look, the sound, everything about it.
2. Vaulted ceilings which run from 8' to 12'. if you were facing the TV the highest point would be off to one side.
3. Weird layout, well kind of. look at #2. Ok so going back to my pre-wired setup the front stage is fine although I wired a bit high at about 36"(should have done them a foot off the floor). Now my side and rear channels are weird and this is my biggest concern. The side channels are roughly 8' high (one on the wall the other in the corner of the wall/ceiling), this is due to the double doors that go outside and vaulted ceilings. The rear channels are in the ceiling, one about 9' up from center seating and the other about 10.5' up from center seating. My original thoughts were to mount small speakers for the side and rear channels much like the Energy RC Micros and now that I have found out Emotiva makes Vaulta's, well even better. Well in my research I have realized the position of the side/rear speakers might not workout as I had imagined it.
So here's the questions and concerns and would like some info: 1. If I mounted the Vaulta's for the side and rear channels up high like originally planned, would that just throw everything off? would it work? 2. Would the Vaulta require a some sort of baffle? Getting in my ceilings going to be a task that's for sure. Yes, a perfect world would say run new lines lower for the side and or rear channels but wifey isn't going to have that. I MIGHT be able to get the side channels low for a 5.2.4. MIGHT but that on itself is going to be a task and still unsure if wifey will buy it. Other thoughts and concerns are processing. I just bought the Vizio PX65-G1, picture is pretty dang nice but smart TV part of is SUCKS. Might end up getting a Roku to substitute it. Also I'm not sure if my Emo 8100 AVR, PS4 or TV but video/audio cuts in and out from time to time, mainly when the PS4 is turned on and will last a few minutes before normalizing. When I watch TV the audio will cut out but I think its due to different audio formats, like a commercial VS show/movie. Anywho I hope I could get some advise, thank you for your time. Wanting to upgrade all my speakers with Emo's or SVS or Arendal, not fully sure yet. Also would like to upgrade the AVR to EMO separates or Denon/Emo. again not sure....
|
|
ericb
Minor Hero
Posts: 13
|
Post by ericb on Oct 20, 2020 6:50:06 GMT -5
Not sure how to add a blueprint of the layout but I have one.
|
|
ericb
Minor Hero
Posts: 13
|
Post by ericb on Oct 20, 2020 9:51:11 GMT -5
I guess the real question here is, would the Vaulta's work as side and rear channel speakers and as high as they would be? Or would it be all wonky?
|
|
DYohn
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 18,348
|
Post by DYohn on Oct 20, 2020 10:00:53 GMT -5
As long as you are using a good HT processor the distance differences will be compensated for. The only thing you really need to look at is optimal placement in relation to the main seating area. In-ceiling or in-wall surrounds are a great way to satisfy a partner more interested in design than audio.
|
|
|
|
Post by ttocs on Oct 20, 2020 11:10:36 GMT -5
For adding images to posts you would look for the Add Attachment button to the far right of the "Subject:" of this thread. Subject is above Font Face.
Can I assume the green line is the peak of the vaulted ceiling?
If you plan to use the two rears for ATMOS Top Rear, then the side Surrounds aren't ideal in a 5.x.x layout, but hey, what else 'ya gonna do? I have a great room layout also, and it works very well. My Left Surround in-wall speaker is 16' from MLP, and the Right Surround in-wall is 7', and it works great for both movies and ambient All-Stereo sound. Don't worry about the difference in height of the Rears.
1. I don't think I'd worry about the height of the side Surrounds, especially if the speakers are already mounted in those locations. Try it. Nothing to lose.
2. Is the vaulted ceiling actually the roof? Mine is so I didn't cut into it. Baffles? Most of the in-ceiling speakers I've seen audio guys install in the houses I've built don't use baffles. Some do.
|
|
|
|
Post by 405x5 on Oct 20, 2020 11:25:01 GMT -5
Good morning friends, I am and have been struggling with a few concepts on creating to the best of my ability a home theater / living space. Let me start from the beginning, In my youth I was a basshead car audio guru and DJ alike. Home audio has always been 2.0 stereo and loud until about 6 years ago. I bought my first 5.1 it was and still is a Emotiva Fusion 8100 paired with Energy RC micro 5.1's. For the apartment sized area I previously had before getting married it was great. Since then 4k has becoming a thing and here 8k is in the mist, I am married and we built our house. In doing so I pre-wire for a 7.1 And honestly wish I could go back knowing what I know now are redo the areas for wiring. Anywho it's done, no turning back. Lets get into the specs, requests, ideas and options, the meat of it all. Open concept living room, kitchen, dinning room with vaulted ceilings 24'10" x 21'10" for the total size of it all. Actual size of the living space would be roughly 18'x15'. After much research and newer technologies I feel a 5.2.4 would be what I would like to accomplish but before we get to speaker layout and processing let me explain the problems first. 1. My wife hates the idea of a home theater. The look, the sound, everything about it.
2. Vaulted ceilings which run from 8' to 12'. if you were facing the TV the highest point would be off to one side.
3. Weird layout, well kind of. look at #2. Ok so going back to my pre-wired setup the front stage is fine although I wired a bit high at about 36"(should have done them a foot off the floor). Now my side and rear channels are weird and this is my biggest concern. The side channels are roughly 8' high (one on the wall the other in the corner of the wall/ceiling), this is due to the double doors that go outside and vaulted ceilings. The rear channels are in the ceiling, one about 9' up from center seating and the other about 10.5' up from center seating. My original thoughts were to mount small speakers for the side and rear channels much like the Energy RC Micros and now that I have found out Emotiva makes Vaulta's, well even better. Well in my research I have realized the position of the side/rear speakers might not workout as I had imagined it.
So here's the questions and concerns and would like some info: 1. If I mounted the Vaulta's for the side and rear channels up high like originally planned, would that just throw everything off? would it work? 2. Would the Vaulta require a some sort of baffle? Getting in my ceilings going to be a task that's for sure. Yes, a perfect world would say run new lines lower for the side and or rear channels but wifey isn't going to have that. I MIGHT be able to get the side channels low for a 5.2.4. MIGHT but that on itself is going to be a task and still unsure if wifey will buy it. Other thoughts and concerns are processing. I just bought the Vizio PX65-G1, picture is pretty dang nice but smart TV part of is SUCKS. Might end up getting a Roku to substitute it. Also I'm not sure if my Emo 8100 AVR, PS4 or TV but video/audio cuts in and out from time to time, mainly when the PS4 is turned on and will last a few minutes before normalizing. When I watch TV the audio will cut out but I think its due to different audio formats, like a commercial VS show/movie. Anywho I hope I could get some advise, thank you for your time. Wanting to upgrade all my speakers with Emo's or SVS or Arendal, not fully sure yet. Also would like to upgrade the AVR to EMO separates or Denon/Emo. again not sure....
You need to have a serious pow wow with your bride regarding problem #1.....before getting to 2 and 3. Once you’re agreed on where you want to end up with the project, the logistics become much easier. Funny that I agree (sort of) with your wife in that I HATE the idea of a Home Theater 🎭 in the house. By that I mean from an architectural perspective like some have done up here rather extensively.....the look of a theater. That’s a space I look forward to running away from when the shows over. If you look into my “listening space” from one angle, it appears like a good sized, cozy comfortable living room, except for my large rear speakers mounted way up in the corners. But when it all comes on, you’re lost in a “ live” AV experience. All of that said I’ve got all the creative license needed in the house to get it all done since my wife’s on board and in this department.....depends on me to come up with the answers. Bill |
|
ericb
Minor Hero
Posts: 13
|
Post by ericb on Oct 21, 2020 5:56:04 GMT -5
For adding images to posts you would look for the Add Attachment button to the far right of the "Subject:" of this thread. Subject is above Font Face. Can I assume the green line is the peak of the vaulted ceiling? If you plan to use the two rears for ATMOS Top Rear, then the side Surrounds aren't ideal in a 5.x.x layout, but hey, what else 'ya gonna do? I have a great room layout also, and it works very well. My Left Surround in-wall speaker is 16' from MLP, and the Right Surround in-wall is 7', and it works great for both movies and ambient All-Stereo sound. Don't worry about the difference in height of the Rears. 1. I don't think I'd worry about the height of the side Surrounds, especially if the speakers are already mounted in those locations. Try it. Nothing to lose. 2. Is the vaulted ceiling actually the roof? Mine is so I didn't cut into it. Baffles? Most of the in-ceiling speakers I've seen audio guys install in the houses I've built don't use baffles. Some do. Ahh, thank you.. was able to attach this time.
1. So yes, the green line is the peak of the vault. 3. Yes the vaulted ceiling is the roof. I might have a crawl space of 1-3 foot depending the area.
4. As to a 7.1, side/rear channels high if aimed right you feel it wouldn't be that bad huh? Well I'm excited to hear that. Might pull the trigger on them Vaulta's
Thank you again for all your assistance
|
|
ericb
Minor Hero
Posts: 13
|
Post by ericb on Oct 21, 2020 6:15:19 GMT -5
Good morning friends, I am and have been struggling with a few concepts on creating to the best of my ability a home theater / living space. Let me start from the beginning, In my youth I was a basshead car audio guru and DJ alike. Home audio has always been 2.0 stereo and loud until about 6 years ago. I bought my first 5.1 it was and still is a Emotiva Fusion 8100 paired with Energy RC micro 5.1's. For the apartment sized area I previously had before getting married it was great. Since then 4k has becoming a thing and here 8k is in the mist, I am married and we built our house. In doing so I pre-wire for a 7.1 And honestly wish I could go back knowing what I know now are redo the areas for wiring. Anywho it's done, no turning back. Lets get into the specs, requests, ideas and options, the meat of it all. Open concept living room, kitchen, dinning room with vaulted ceilings 24'10" x 21'10" for the total size of it all. Actual size of the living space would be roughly 18'x15'. After much research and newer technologies I feel a 5.2.4 would be what I would like to accomplish but before we get to speaker layout and processing let me explain the problems first. 1. My wife hates the idea of a home theater. The look, the sound, everything about it.
2. Vaulted ceilings which run from 8' to 12'. if you were facing the TV the highest point would be off to one side.
3. Weird layout, well kind of. look at #2. Ok so going back to my pre-wired setup the front stage is fine although I wired a bit high at about 36"(should have done them a foot off the floor). Now my side and rear channels are weird and this is my biggest concern. The side channels are roughly 8' high (one on the wall the other in the corner of the wall/ceiling), this is due to the double doors that go outside and vaulted ceilings. The rear channels are in the ceiling, one about 9' up from center seating and the other about 10.5' up from center seating. My original thoughts were to mount small speakers for the side and rear channels much like the Energy RC Micros and now that I have found out Emotiva makes Vaulta's, well even better. Well in my research I have realized the position of the side/rear speakers might not workout as I had imagined it.
So here's the questions and concerns and would like some info: 1. If I mounted the Vaulta's for the side and rear channels up high like originally planned, would that just throw everything off? would it work? 2. Would the Vaulta require a some sort of baffle? Getting in my ceilings going to be a task that's for sure. Yes, a perfect world would say run new lines lower for the side and or rear channels but wifey isn't going to have that. I MIGHT be able to get the side channels low for a 5.2.4. MIGHT but that on itself is going to be a task and still unsure if wifey will buy it. Other thoughts and concerns are processing. I just bought the Vizio PX65-G1, picture is pretty dang nice but smart TV part of is SUCKS. Might end up getting a Roku to substitute it. Also I'm not sure if my Emo 8100 AVR, PS4 or TV but video/audio cuts in and out from time to time, mainly when the PS4 is turned on and will last a few minutes before normalizing. When I watch TV the audio will cut out but I think its due to different audio formats, like a commercial VS show/movie. Anywho I hope I could get some advise, thank you for your time. Wanting to upgrade all my speakers with Emo's or SVS or Arendal, not fully sure yet. Also would like to upgrade the AVR to EMO separates or Denon/Emo. again not sure....
You need to have a serious pow wow with your bride regarding problem #1.....before getting to 2 and 3. Once you’re agreed on where you want to end up with the project, the logistics become much easier. Funny that I agree (sort of) with your wife in that I HATE the idea of a Home Theater 🎭 in the house. By that I mean from an architectural perspective like some have done up here rather extensively.....the look of a theater. That’s a space I look forward to running away from when the shows over. If you look into my “listening space” from one angle, it appears like a good sized, cozy comfortable living room, except for my large rear speakers mounted way up in the corners. But when it all comes on, you’re lost in a “ live” AV experience. All of that said I’ve got all the creative license needed in the house to get it all done since my wife’s on board and in this department.....depends on me to come up with the answers. Bill Hey Bill,
To clarify, I have the green light on building a *home theater. Currently I have a 5.1. That said she just doesn't care for it but in the same is okay with be doing what I need to. That said there is limitations, as you stated its not a true home theater its a living room with an *. I cant have seven 6 foot towers for all ear level speakers and giant 3 foot boxes hanging from the ceiling for Atmos, or even a 110' screen. Perhaps I should revise my statement.
I would like the effect of a home theater in my living room and would like to achieve a 7.x or 5.x.x. Would this work with the below blueprint (dont mind my drawings im using a mouse). Green line is the peak of the roof dark blue is the TV. Red dots are the current prewired area for surround sound(the four side/rear are high on wall/ceiling) . Cyan boxes are the sofas.
I would like to do the following for a 7.x
>Emo Vaulta or RSL C34E for rear/ceiling >Emo T1 or SVS Pinnacle front L/R
>Emo C1 or SVS Prime center >Emo SE12 or SVS SB-1000 SUB
I also have looked into Arendal speakers but I digress.
|
|
ericb
Minor Hero
Posts: 13
|
Post by ericb on Oct 21, 2020 6:22:47 GMT -5
As long as you are using a good HT processor the distance differences will be compensated for. The only thing you really need to look at is optimal placement in relation to the main seating area. In-ceiling or in-wall surrounds are a great way to satisfy a partner more interested in design than audio. Yeah, as the head of it all I am currently looking at the following:
1. MC-700 limited to a 7.x
2. XMC-1 limited to a 7.x (not fully sure the benefit from the mc700)
3. Denon AVR-x3700h or 4700 (just for a little more power and future proofing)
If I went with the Denon I believe I could run a Emo amp for the front 3 or even the front and side 5 channels and run the rest off the Denon internal amps.
|
|
|
|
Post by ttocs on Oct 21, 2020 9:38:15 GMT -5
For adding images to posts you would look for the Add Attachment button to the far right of the "Subject:" of this thread. Subject is above Font Face. Can I assume the green line is the peak of the vaulted ceiling? If you plan to use the two rears for ATMOS Top Rear, then the side Surrounds aren't ideal in a 5.x.x layout, but hey, what else 'ya gonna do? I have a great room layout also, and it works very well. My Left Surround in-wall speaker is 16' from MLP, and the Right Surround in-wall is 7', and it works great for both movies and ambient All-Stereo sound. Don't worry about the difference in height of the Rears. 1. I don't think I'd worry about the height of the side Surrounds, especially if the speakers are already mounted in those locations. Try it. Nothing to lose. 2. Is the vaulted ceiling actually the roof? Mine is so I didn't cut into it. Baffles? Most of the in-ceiling speakers I've seen audio guys install in the houses I've built don't use baffles. Some do. Ahh, thank you.. was able to attach this time.
1. So yes, the green line is the peak of the vault. 3. Yes the vaulted ceiling is the roof. I might have a crawl space of 1-3 foot depending the area.
4. As to a 7.1, side/rear channels high if aimed right you feel it wouldn't be that bad huh? Well I'm excited to hear that. Might pull the trigger on them Vaulta's
Thank you again for all your assistance. My setup is pretty much the same but different as yours.  The Left Surround and Left Back are much farther away, but they are at a proper height to be the same angle to the MLP, so the heights are different, but they all work great! The Surrounds are in-wall speakers, and the ATMOS Tops are hanging from the ceiling with exposed wiring. My roof is 2x8" construction so if any holes are cut into the ceiling there would be no insulation between the back of the speaker magnet and the roof sheathing. If you install two more speakers farther to the back of the room or even on the back wall, then you could use the current "Back" locations for Top Rear and just install a pair for Top Front. |
|
ericb
Minor Hero
Posts: 13
|
Post by ericb on Oct 21, 2020 10:04:23 GMT -5
Ahh, thank you.. was able to attach this time.
1. So yes, the green line is the peak of the vault. 3. Yes the vaulted ceiling is the roof. I might have a crawl space of 1-3 foot depending the area.
4. As to a 7.1, side/rear channels high if aimed right you feel it wouldn't be that bad huh? Well I'm excited to hear that. Might pull the trigger on them Vaulta's
Thank you again for all your assistance. My setup is pretty much the same but different as yours. View AttachmentThe Left Surround and Left Back are much farther away, but they are at a proper height to be the same angle to the MLP, so the heights are different, but they all work great! The Surrounds are in-wall speakers, and the ATMOS Tops are hanging from the ceiling with exposed wiring. My roof is 2x8" construction so if any holes are cut into the ceiling there would be no insulation between the back of the speaker magnet and the roof sheathing. If you install two more speakers farther to the back of the room or even on the back wall, then you could use the current "Back" locations for Top Rear and just install a pair for Top Front. Interesting. Nice to see that having the speakers not exactly mirrored from L/R/F/B doesn't create an issue. I assume that's in the room correction software/hardware.
1. Question, what is MLP?
As for installing rear speakers at ear level, it would virtual be impossible since the rear wall is dinning and kitchen. I have cabinets and tile backsplash there so the only possible area on that wall would be upper wall above everything give or take 10 foot high for on side and 11 foot high for the other. And putting floor standing speakers would literally be in the middle of walk ways. I honestly am limited at very best to 5 floor standing speaker. everything else needs to hide somewhere else.
|
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Oct 21, 2020 12:17:11 GMT -5
My setup is pretty much the same but different as yours. View AttachmentThe Left Surround and Left Back are much farther away, but they are at a proper height to be the same angle to the MLP, so the heights are different, but they all work great! The Surrounds are in-wall speakers, and the ATMOS Tops are hanging from the ceiling with exposed wiring. My roof is 2x8" construction so if any holes are cut into the ceiling there would be no insulation between the back of the speaker magnet and the roof sheathing. If you install two more speakers farther to the back of the room or even on the back wall, then you could use the current "Back" locations for Top Rear and just install a pair for Top Front. Interesting. Nice to see that having the speakers not exactly mirrored from L/R/F/B doesn't create an issue. I assume that's in the room correction software/hardware.
1. Question, what is MLP?
As for installing rear speakers at ear level, it would virtual be impossible since the rear wall is dinning and kitchen. I have cabinets and tile backsplash there so the only possible area on that wall would be upper wall above everything give or take 10 foot high for on side and 11 foot high for the other. And putting floor standing speakers would literally be in the middle of walk ways. I honestly am limited at very best to 5 floor standing speaker. everything else needs to hide somewhere else.
MLP = major listening position and is usually measured at ear level . |
|
|
|
Post by ttocs on Oct 21, 2020 14:17:18 GMT -5
My setup is pretty much the same but different as yours. View AttachmentThe Left Surround and Left Back are much farther away, but they are at a proper height to be the same angle to the MLP, so the heights are different, but they all work great! The Surrounds are in-wall speakers, and the ATMOS Tops are hanging from the ceiling with exposed wiring. My roof is 2x8" construction so if any holes are cut into the ceiling there would be no insulation between the back of the speaker magnet and the roof sheathing. If you install two more speakers farther to the back of the room or even on the back wall, then you could use the current "Back" locations for Top Rear and just install a pair for Top Front. Interesting. Nice to see that having the speakers not exactly mirrored from L/R/F/B doesn't create an issue. I assume that's in the room correction software/hardware.
1. Question, what is MLP?
As for installing rear speakers at ear level, it would virtual be impossible since the rear wall is dinning and kitchen. I have cabinets and tile backsplash there so the only possible area on that wall would be upper wall above everything give or take 10 foot high for on side and 11 foot high for the other. And putting floor standing speakers would literally be in the middle of walk ways. I honestly am limited at very best to 5 floor standing speaker. everything else needs to hide somewhere else. 5 matching floor standing speakers is the best way to go!! The best experiences I've witnessed were 5.1 systems with all the same model speaker. Highly, highly recommended! That is not a limitation. |
|
ericb
Minor Hero
Posts: 13
|
Post by ericb on Oct 22, 2020 5:25:38 GMT -5
Thanks again everyone. Very help information.
|
|
