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Post by Percussionista on Aug 17, 2023 17:18:43 GMT -5
So far my Stealth-8's have been fine except for the right-side (I have triaged the situation to determine it is not the DC-1 or cables). Most of the time they are fine, but sometimes the sound on the right speaker drops, goes in and out with some crackling. Usually if I can get a good volume pop playing, the right speaker comes back. Does this sound like a typical capacitor issue?
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Post by leonski on Aug 17, 2023 21:51:11 GMT -5
My Magnepan MG-1 speakers were repaired at the factory and got new 'socks' as part of the deal.....At least 25 or so years after manufacture.
As for a speaker with active electronics?
First? I can't believe that heat sink compound just 'dried up' unless it was somekind of toothpaste or hair gel, maybe. Real compound should go the distance.
And? If the electronics fails? Gut it all and replace with a 100 to 200 a side stereo amp and a MINIDSP of one flavor or another the HD might be the best choice?
It'll take a LOT of work to get it right unless you have some insight into the current crossover used......But it WILL work. And have some advantages and compromises
VS the original setup.....
And percussionist? If the speaker 'crackles' while working the vol control? Could be something as simple as a bad potentiometer.
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Post by Percussionista on Aug 17, 2023 22:47:22 GMT -5
... And percussionist? If the speaker 'crackles' while working the vol control? Could be something as simple as a bad potentiometer.
Ah... no that's not what I meant. While music is playing with no changes being made by myself, the music just suddenly can drop out of that speaker. You can hear something faintly going on. Usually when a higher volume part of the music comes along then the speaker seems to fully snap back on and there is some crackle or such distortion as the music returns or goes away. I've had some older speakers with potentiometer issues (separate pots on the higher end frequency drivers that you can access yourself) and I know what that kind of crackly distortion sounds like as you adjust the pots. I don't know if there are any pots in the Stealth-8's that might have gotten "dirty" causing problems.
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs 
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,033
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Post by cawgijoe on Aug 18, 2023 7:33:58 GMT -5
... And percussionist? If the speaker 'crackles' while working the vol control? Could be something as simple as a bad potentiometer. Ah... no that's not what I meant. While music is playing with no changes being made by myself, the music just suddenly can drop out of that speaker. You can hear something faintly going on. Usually when a higher volume part of the music comes along then the speaker seems to fully snap back on and there is some crackle or such distortion as the music returns or goes away. I've had some older speakers with potentiometer issues (separate pots on the higher end frequency drivers that you can access yourself) and I know what that kind of crackly distortion sounds like as you adjust the pots. I don't know if there are any pots in the Stealth-8's that might have gotten "dirty" causing problems.
Sounds like capacitors or pots..likely an amp issue.if I were you, I would ask for the schematics and then find a local repair shop. They will likely charge you a diagnostic fee which will be applied to the cost of the repair if they can do it. Probably worth it if you like the speakers. I do find it a bit disturbing that Emotiva tends to not repair beyond the five year warranty even if you want to pay for it. I also think it's product dependent. They were willing to repair my original XPA-5 that was eight years old at the time it developed an intermittent "fault" issue. Very fair "fixed" repair amount. I decided to trade it in on an XPA-5 Gen 3. Could be that amp parts are much easier to source. I personally like passive speakers and the only speaker I have in my system that has a built in amp is the subwoofer. But that's just me and neither here or there. |
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Post by leonski on Aug 18, 2023 14:36:48 GMT -5
One diagnostic? Remove 'plate' for the amp in question. BE CAREFUL....It can zap you if not careful. Spray the output devices with something 'cold'.......that canned air should work.....
Such treatment may change the 'state' of the amp and either fix or break.......The trick is to do this whle it is playing......
Get the Schematic from EMO. This will give some hints as to number of output devices. These are the (generally) heat-sink mounted transistors and will always be in PAIRS....
While you are 'in' there? Look and Smell around. Bulged caps are goners. Leaks / fluids / Goo from caps likewise are signs of BAD. A bad smell is what happens when the Magic gets let out
of a component and THAT is likewise bad. The number on TOP of the transistor can be used to identify it and find exact replacments.....
How are your soldering skills? Got a meter?
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Post by jra on Aug 18, 2023 18:32:49 GMT -5
I am an utter danger to myself and others when doing electronics :-). I had 2 x Stealth 6's which developed the dreaded crackling noise. I sent them to SerTech Electronics in South San Jose along with the Emotiva schematics, and they replaced the capacitors. Unfortunately this didn't fix the crackles so I got them to junk the boxes :-(. I also have 6 x Stealth 8's (what can I say, I'm an Emotiva junkie :-). Two of them have started to develop the crackle/faint sound problem. I don't want to junk these, so does anyone in this forum know if I used these passive crossovers: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002ZPLAM/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_1?smid=A385A0XNQBW8HY&psc=1and bypassed the internal Emotiva electronics and drive them with an Emotiva PA-1 amp if it would work ? I have a bunch of spare PA-1's (as I already said, I'm an Emotiva junkie :-) so that would be easy for me. I hate to throw away good hardware just because Emo won't service them anymore, and I could probably cope with fixing the wiring up to the internal speakers via crimping connectors. But I don't know if this crossover is what I need. Any opinions ? |
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Post by leonski on Aug 18, 2023 19:39:03 GMT -5
OUTPUT TRANSISTORS.......my best guess. Those guys at your
Not a Thing wrong with the drivers. the tweeter is based on the Heil AMT design and has been used by everybody from Radio Shack to ESS to EMO to I think even Parts Express! The Dayton B652Air is a bargain at 60$ per and
favorablly reviewed.......
Good for DIY, too......
But is supposed to be a little 'fragile' with too much power......
Removal of amp(s) and replacing with a stereo amp and miniDSP CAN be done but is a semi-advanced project. And wouldn't be 'cheap' which is all most people seem to care about.....
Plan 'B' would be to go to a passive 2-way crossover and a SINGLE amp. For that? Your suggestion of the PA-1 is superb....But you need some more information about the crossover and
how YOU are running it now and if you can make one up. A simple crossover would be a capacitor in series with the tweeter......that cuts out the lows and woofer runs full range.
YOu need to look up a little of this.......and get back to me.....
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Post by jra on Aug 18, 2023 19:49:57 GMT -5
Well the passive "Dayton Audio XO2W-2K 2-Way Speaker Crossover 2,000 Hz" part I linked to at Amazon is a simple crossover. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002ZPLAM/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_1?smid=A385A0XNQBW8HY&psc=1&tag=vs-proboards-20I would need to connect the input (output from the PA-1) and the outputs to the Stealth8 woofer and tweeters via crimping connectors. It's only $33.98, so that's a cheaper option if I just bypass the internal Emotiva electronics on the Stealth 8. I just don't know if it will do what is needed to keep that sweet Stealth8 sound :-). |
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Post by vcautokid on Aug 18, 2023 23:10:02 GMT -5
Cap, Transistor, dirty control, cold solder joint, or fractured solder joint. Would be my suspects.
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Post by leonski on Aug 19, 2023 2:07:49 GMT -5
Well the passive "Dayton Audio XO2W-2K 2-Way Speaker Crossover 2,000 Hz" part I linked to at Amazon is a simple crossover. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002ZPLAM/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_1?smid=A385A0XNQBW8HY&psc=1&tag=vs-proboards-20I would need to connect the input (output from the PA-1) and the outputs to the Stealth8 woofer and tweeters via crimping connectors. It's only $33.98, so that's a cheaper option if I just bypass the internal Emotiva electronics on the Stealth 8. I just don't know if it will do what is needed to keep that sweet Stealth8 sound :-). You need some MORE information. But in the end? And experiment AND crap-shoot rolled into one. Take a good photo of the control plate of the speaker and publish here......I want ot see what I make of it...... Might be a good way to take up the dining room table for a month or so? |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 19, 2023 7:34:41 GMT -5
This thread is a shining example of why I go “component” for the serious system.
Powered monitors are great and I have some, but not for the long haul EXCEPT for the powered subwoofer. That’s where in the big system it is a “ necessary EVIL!”
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Post by jra on Aug 19, 2023 15:54:18 GMT -5
Well the passive "Dayton Audio XO2W-2K 2-Way Speaker Crossover 2,000 Hz" part I linked to at Amazon is a simple crossover. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002ZPLAM/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_1?smid=A385A0XNQBW8HY&psc=1&tag=vs-proboards-20I would need to connect the input (output from the PA-1) and the outputs to the Stealth8 woofer and tweeters via crimping connectors. It's only $33.98, so that's a cheaper option if I just bypass the internal Emotiva electronics on the Stealth 8. I just don't know if it will do what is needed to keep that sweet Stealth8 sound :-). You need some MORE information. But in the end? And experiment AND crap-shoot rolled into one. Take a good photo of the control plate of the speaker and publish here......I want ot see what I make of it...... Might be a good way to take up the dining room table for a month or so? OK. I'm going to give it a try with that Amazon crossover. I'll post photos and report back on how it sounds when I'm done. Just don't criticize the duct-tape and crimping connector engineering. I'm a software, not a hardware guy :-). |
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Post by leonski on Aug 21, 2023 21:42:39 GMT -5
Sure......
Worst case is that the crossover is at the wrong frequency and either the woofer OR tweeter have 'given up' at that point.....
Distorion and such are the problem.....and several others.....
do you have any specs from the speaker so you know some replacement values?
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Post by jra on Aug 21, 2023 22:17:46 GMT -5
Sure...... Worst case is that the crossover is at the wrong frequency and either the woofer OR tweeter have 'given up' at that point..... Distorion and such are the problem.....and several others..... do you have any specs from the speaker so you know some replacement values? Well the Emotiva specs say the crossover is 2KHz and both the woofer and tweeter are 6 ohms. So the crossover I'm buying is set for 2KHz and the resistance is selectable between 4and 8 ohms. I'll try both and see what sounds better. |
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Post by leonski on Aug 21, 2023 22:35:17 GMT -5
Sure...... Worst case is that the crossover is at the wrong frequency and either the woofer OR tweeter have 'given up' at that point..... Distorion and such are the problem.....and several others..... do you have any specs from the speaker so you know some replacement values? Well the Emotiva specs say the crossover is 2KHz and both the woofer and tweeter are 6 ohms. So the crossover I'm buying is set for 2KHz and the resistance is selectable between 4and 8 ohms. I'll try both and see what sounds better. Excellent find. I had no idea of the crossover..... Now? You need a high pass set at a little HIGHER and a Low Pass a little LOWER than the 2k......So the speakers don't interfere with one another..... And so that NEITHER speaker runs 'full range'...... Crossover frequency is NOT a brick wall. That 12db octave? Down 12 db one octave from the crossover.....so at 1khz for a 2k cross......high pass..... This would be an excellent 'first pass' test.....And if if works to your satisfaction? Mission Accomplished.... |
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Post by jra on Aug 25, 2023 19:24:45 GMT -5
SUCCESS !!!!! IT WORKS !!!!!
I stripped out the internal Emotiva board from inside the broken Stealth-8 to make room for the Amazon crossover. Got covered in heat-sink compound, all over my clothes. My wife is not happy :-). I told you all I was a software, not a hardware guy. Used some clear tape to cement the new board in place, and crimped connected the old woofer and tweeter onto the new board. Output I just crushed the wire out the back (just didn't tighten the top two screws to make a little room for the wire :-) and added some banana plugs and connected to one of my spare Emotiva PA-1's.
IT SOUNDS AMAZING ! The new (passive) Stealth-8 sounds better than the original on the other side :-). The PA-1 AMP with the Stealth-8 drivers sounds fantastic !
This just goes to show if Emotiva would take the Stealth-8 Woofer/Tweeter and enclosure and pair them with an internal ICEPower AMP they would have a *killer* active speaker, without all the problems that the AB-amp version had.
Big Dan and gang, I hope you're listening. This is a killer product :-).
I'm gonna order another board and fix the second broken one in the same way.
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Post by jra on Aug 25, 2023 19:26:37 GMT -5
FYI. I did nothing else but replace the Emotiva internal board with the new crossover via the crimping connectors. Set it to 8ohm (even though the drivers in the Stealth-8 are 6ohm). No other electronic changes at all.
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Post by leonski on Aug 25, 2023 19:50:20 GMT -5
ANY way at all to attach a photo or two?
And which board did you buy? Is it high pass / low pass....???or just maybe high pass for the tweeter? (that would mean the woofer is running full range!
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Post by jra on Aug 25, 2023 22:50:09 GMT -5
ANY way at all to attach a photo or two? And which board did you buy? Is it high pass / low pass....???or just maybe high pass for the tweeter? (that would mean the woofer is running full range! Sigh. I will post an Amazon link to the board I used for the third time. Maybe you will click on it to look at the picture this time :-). www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002ZPLAM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1"Dayton Audio XO2W-2K 2-Way Speaker Crossover 2,000 Hz" if you want to google it. I have no idea if it is high pass/low pass. I don't even really know what that means :-). When I get the next one I'll take photos to post as I repair the second Stealth-8. All I did was remove the Emotiva amplifier board inside (I left the massive transformer alone for ballast :-) and connected the woofer wire to the "W" terminal on the crossover, the tweeter wire to the "T" terminal on the crossover, and then ran the "output" wire out of the enclosure to a couple of banana plug terminators, with a long enough run to mount the PA-1 amp on top of the Stealth-8. All connectors were spade connectors and I crimped the wire inside the spade connector to keep it in place. Trust me, it wasn't complex. If I can do it it has to be the world's simplest hardware project. But even without any extra electronics it sounds *WONDERFUL* ! |
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Post by leonski on Aug 25, 2023 23:07:37 GMT -5
OK......I saw the pic before but for some reason Could Not get to the specs and the wiring was not 'obvious' to what's left of my brain cell.
Now? I see high pass / low pass at 12db per octave......listed in the specs.....
Since you are happy, I'M HAPPY, too. One experiment I'd suggest? Do a +-swap to the tweeter. Since both halves are same slope, they are also in phase.
If the speakers for some reason were wired differently or maybe some construction diff between woofer and tweeter? Swapping may improve or not.......
Swap only ONE being either the woofer or the tweeter......NOT BOTH......And you may have already run the 4ohm / 8ohm test to the LF driver.....ALSO a good idea, of course.
You used your head and were successful. I went on a hike today to someplace I'd never been. And screwed up my map reading.....but still took an interesting tour, just not
exactly WHERE intended. This sh** happens and I'll go back in a week or so. I assure you, levering my ass out of the rack at 0500 to make the trail head at dawn (avoid the heat)
is NOT an easy task.....
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