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Post by henrychinaski on Nov 10, 2020 13:34:52 GMT -5
I am trying to take advantage of the onboard DAC of the PT-100, and then pipe it into an older Luxman amp I have-- or maybe I need to send it back if I can't pull this off? Not one to give up easily, I want to either get this to work, or understand why it won't, saying it won't work without rationale goes against what many of us in this hobby are intrinsically made of. Any way...
I want to use my iPhone, or iPad lightening connector and connect it into the PT-100 via the USB, or coax optical (I am using the optical Toslink with my Apple TV, so I need to focus on trying to use the coax, or USB digital input on the PT-100). In theory this will let the PT-100's DAC do the conversion as cleanly as possible. I purchased the Apple camera kit lightening to USB adapter and to date have not been able to get it to function with the PT-100's USB B digital input.
What I think I know based on continuity of what I have read on the various websites and the Emotiva sales rep . I also have opened a ticket with Emotiva.
On the newer iDevices there is no DAC. the DAC is either in the lightening 3.5 convertor, or in the Apple headphones, or something aftermarket like a dragonfly that is MFI certified, more on that later.
Most folks are telling me to use the 3.5 to RCA as a solution which buys me little to nothing in this exercise. That means if you use the included lightening to 3.5 adapter into RCA you are getting a very weak performing DAC, this solution means the DAC in the PT-100 is not used, might as well plug it straight into my 2channel. I can use a dragonfly, but that negates the value of the PT-100s DAC also, I could use the Emotiva Bluetooth adapter, but that -while convenient is another $50 plus I might as well just use the Apple TV and mirror my screen to use the Apple TV I have plugged into the PT-100's Toslink. I think this is fundamentally a problem with the PT-100 not being MFI certified???. so yeah I can use my PC, or MAC, or even an IPad pro with dedicated USB might work, but what I want is to be able to use a dedicated iDevice to easily stream what ever I want, music, Radio apps etc. . Maybe there is a way to "trick the iDevice into thinking the PT-100 is MFI certified??
thanks in advance, I know I am not the only one to be stuck on this problem as the Emotiva rep tells me they get this request often, but they don't have a ready solution to connect the iPhone via USB.
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Post by audiobill on Nov 10, 2020 14:17:21 GMT -5
Just use Apple Airplay to send tunes wirelessly to your Apple TV, which is connected to your dac.
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Post by henrychinaski on Nov 10, 2020 14:23:23 GMT -5
Just use Apple Airplay to send tunes wirelessly to your Apple TV, which is connected to your dac. That is what I am doing now., just trying to get the USB to work if possible |
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Post by audiobill on Nov 10, 2020 14:24:32 GMT -5
IMO, you won't gain anything, but hey...
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DYohn
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 18,487
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Post by DYohn on Nov 10, 2020 14:32:08 GMT -5
I suspect the USB input on the preamp is USB-B, yes? So you will need a lightning to USB-B cable (or a USB-B male to USB-A female adapter) to try it. Will it work? I have no idea.
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Post by henrychinaski on Nov 10, 2020 14:37:44 GMT -5
I suspect the USB input on the preamp is USB-B, yes? So you will need a lightning to USB-B cable (or a USB-B male to USB-A female adapter) to try it. Will it work? I have no idea. yes, it is I bought all the Apple adapters. the PT-100 does not recognize the iPhone |
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DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,487
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Post by DYohn on Nov 10, 2020 14:46:43 GMT -5
I suspect the USB input on the preamp is USB-B, yes? So you will need a lightning to USB-B cable (or a USB-B male to USB-A female adapter) to try it. Will it work? I have no idea. yes, it is I bought all the Apple adapters. the PT-100 does not recognize the iPhone Then there you go, you have your answer. |
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Post by garbulky on Nov 10, 2020 14:52:54 GMT -5
I suspect the USB input on the preamp is USB-B, yes? So you will need a lightning to USB-B cable (or a USB-B male to USB-A female adapter) to try it. Will it work? I have no idea. yes, it is I bought all the Apple adapters. the PT-100 does not recognize the iPhone You need the apple camera connection adapter and a battery to attach to second input |
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Post by HunTer on Nov 10, 2020 15:52:54 GMT -5
Hi henrychinaski,
I’m not sure if I can understand your question so forgive me if this is not what you are asking for.
This is the configuration I have with my XMC-1 and it works fine with my iPad 6 gen / iPhone 11:
iPhone 11 or iPad (6th gen) > Apple Lightning USB 3 Camera Adapter > JSAUX USB 2.0 Type A Male to B Male Cable > XMC-1 USB > Stealth PA-1 Amp (or A-100)
It also works fine with an Android Phone and OTG cable adapter
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Post by henrychinaski on Nov 10, 2020 16:15:22 GMT -5
Hi henrychinaski, I’m not sure if I can understand your question so forgive me if this is not what you are asking for. This is the configuration I have with my XMC-1 and it works fine with my iPad 6 gen / iPhone 11: iPhone 11 or iPad (6th gen) > Apple Lightning USB 3 Camera Adapter > JSAUX USB 2.0 Type A Male to B Male Cable > XMC-1 USB > Stealth PA-1 Amp (or A-100) It also works fine with an Android Phone and OTG cable adapter hey Hunter, I did purchase the Apple camera kit lightening to USB adapter and to date have not been able to get it to function with the PT-100's USB B digital input. While on the phone with the Emotiva tech, he mentioned it works with the XMC-1, but he duplicated my same error I am getting with his lab gear. At that point, he said he needed a SME to look at the problem and opened a ticket. something is allowing the XMC to work, but not the PT-100 |
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Post by garbulky on Nov 10, 2020 16:43:23 GMT -5
Hi henrychinaski, I’m not sure if I can understand your question so forgive me if this is not what you are asking for. This is the configuration I have with my XMC-1 and it works fine with my iPad 6 gen / iPhone 11: iPhone 11 or iPad (6th gen) > Apple Lightning USB 3 Camera Adapter > JSAUX USB 2.0 Type A Male to B Male Cable > XMC-1 USB > Stealth PA-1 Amp (or A-100) It also works fine with an Android Phone and OTG cable adapter hey Hunter, I did purchase the Apple camera kit lightening to USB adapter and to date have not been able to get it to function with the PT-100's USB B digital input. While on the phone with the Emotiva tech, he mentioned it works with the XMC-1, but he duplicated my same error I am getting with his lab gear. At that point, he said he needed a SME to look at the problem and opened a ticket. something is allowing the XMC to work, but not the PT-100 You need an external battery to also hook up to the camera connection kit. Some DAC's require a certainb amount of power that the ipad can't produce. Before plugging it into the dac you have make suree the battery and the ipad are turned on and unlocked. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on Nov 10, 2020 17:03:22 GMT -5
Let me clarify a few things...
The USB DAC input on the PT-100 is a standard USB Audio Class 1 USB audio device. As such it will accept a standard UAC1 digital audio signal from any device that can provide one.
MANY devices in the world can deliver a standard UAC1 audio signal including: - all Windows computers - all Apple computers (like Macs, and Mac Minis, and MacBooks)
- most Linux computers - most Android phones and Android devices (as long as they have a USB output and an option to output audio) - some other proprietary devices that has a standard UAC1 audio output
SOME Apple devices, including most iPhones, and at least some iPads, have a restriction imposed by Apple... These devices will ONLY deliver a digital audio signal to devices that contain an "Apple encryption chip"... (And devices that contain that chip are often described as "Apple compatible"...)
Therefore they would NOT be willing to deliver a standard UAC1 digital audio signal to the USB input on the PT-100 or TA-100...
This is why you need the "Lightning to USB Camera Adapter" or one of the other Apple adapters... They contain the Apple encryption chip, so the Apple device talks to them, and they pass the audio on to the non-Apple DAC or other USB device... The whole reason they exist is to enable Apple devices to work with the rest of the world...
Assuming that your PT-100 is working properly (which can be easily verified by testing it with another source)...
Then, assuming that the Apple adapter is doing its job properly, and your player is sending out a compatible digital audio signal, there should be no problem.
Note that UAC1 usually only supports sample rates up to 24/96k... so, for instance, if your player is trying to output 24/192k, it is NOT going to work.
It is also possible that the operating system, or the player program, is unwilling or unable to deliver a standard UAC1 digital audio signal... (Apple may have added more restrictions to prevent iPads from working with devices of other brands...)
However, at least until recently, the "Apple Camera Adapter" was a solution that was known to do the job...
I am trying to take advantage of the onboard DAC of the PT-100, and then pipe it into an older Luxman amp I have-- or maybe I need to send it back if I can't pull this off? Not one to give up easily, I want to either get this to work, or understand why it won't, saying it won't work without rationale goes against what many of us in this hobby are intrinsically made of. Any way... I want to use my iPhone, or iPad lightening connector and connect it into the PT-100 via the USB, or coax optical (I am using the optical Toslink with my Apple TV, so I need to focus on trying to use the coax, or USB digital input on the PT-100). In theory this will let the PT-100's DAC do the conversion as cleanly as possible. I purchased the Apple camera kit lightening to USB adapter and to date have not been able to get it to function with the PT-100's USB B digital input. What I think I know based on continuity of what I have read on the various websites and the Emotiva sales rep . I also have opened a ticket with Emotiva. On the newer iDevices there is no DAC. the DAC is either in the lightening 3.5 convertor, or in the Apple headphones, or something aftermarket like a dragonfly that is MFI certified, more on that later. Most folks are telling me to use the 3.5 to RCA as a solution which buys me little to nothing in this exercise. That means if you use the included lightening to 3.5 adapter into RCA you are getting a very weak performing DAC, this solution means the DAC in the PT-100 is not used, might as well plug it straight into my 2channel. I can use a dragonfly, but that negates the value of the PT-100s DAC also, I could use the Emotiva Bluetooth adapter, but that -while convenient is another $50 plus I might as well just use the Apple TV and mirror my screen to use the Apple TV I have plugged into the PT-100's Toslink. I think this is fundamentally a problem with the PT-100 not being MFI certified???. so yeah I can use my PC, or MAC, or even an IPad pro with dedicated USB might work, but what I want is to be able to use a dedicated iDevice to easily stream what ever I want, music, Radio apps etc. . Maybe there is a way to "trick the iDevice into thinking the PT-100 is MFI certified?? thanks in advance, I know I am not the only one to be stuck on this problem as the Emotiva rep tells me they get this request often, but they don't have a ready solution to connect the iPhone via USB. |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on Nov 10, 2020 17:07:35 GMT -5
True - but not in this case.
Many portable devices are unwilling to deliver enough current from their USB port to power an external USB-powered DAC.
And, with them, you would need a powered hub, or some other power source, to power the DAC. (And a few portable DACs, like one or two of the DragonFly DACs, are specifically designed to run on very little power to avoid this issue.)
However, the DAC in the PT-100 is powered by the PT-100's power supply, and so draws very little current from the audio source.
Therefore it should not be a problem for any source device and should not trigger any "power restrictions".
hey Hunter, I did purchase the Apple camera kit lightening to USB adapter and to date have not been able to get it to function with the PT-100's USB B digital input. While on the phone with the Emotiva tech, he mentioned it works with the XMC-1, but he duplicated my same error I am getting with his lab gear. At that point, he said he needed a SME to look at the problem and opened a ticket. something is allowing the XMC to work, but not the PT-100 You need an external battery to also hook up to the camera connection kit. Some DAC's require a certainb amount of power that the ipad can't produce. Before plugging it into the dac you have make suree the battery and the ipad are turned on and unlocked. |
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Post by henrychinaski on Nov 10, 2020 18:00:15 GMT -5
True - but not in this case.
Many portable devices are unwilling to deliver enough current from their USB port to power an external USB-powered DAC.
And, with them, you would need a powered hub, or some other power source, to power the DAC. (And a few portable DACs, like one or two of the DragonFly DACs, are specifically designed to run on very little power to avoid this issue.)
However, the DAC in the PT-100 is powered by the PT-100's power supply, and so draws very little current from the audio source.
You need an external battery to also hook up to the camera connection kit. Some DAC's require a certainb amount of power that the ipad can't produce. Before plugging it into the dac you have make suree the battery and the ipad are turned on and unlocked. |
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Post by henrychinaski on Nov 10, 2020 18:04:23 GMT -5
from a cross post in the Facebook Emotiva group from a member--- "Whats interesting about this is both my xmc-1 and dc-1 will take input directly from the camera adapter and they decode just fine. 🤷🏻♂️ Guess they include the special chips in those products." Why does it work with the XMC-1 ?
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Post by HunTer on Nov 10, 2020 19:37:25 GMT -5
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Post by HunTer on Nov 10, 2020 20:12:36 GMT -5
from a cross post in the Facebook Emotiva group from a member--- "Whats interesting about this is both my xmc-1 and dc-1 will take input directly from the camera adapter and they decode just fine. 🤷🏻♂️ Guess they include the special chips in those products." Why does it work with the XMC-1 ? I don’t have the PT-100 but try this steps by steps (as I have to do with my XMC-1 & iPad to work properly) Turn off the PT-100 and your iPhone Disconnect all device’s inputs from the PT-100 and also from the wall outlet Then connect the 2.0 Type A Male - B Male Cable to the PT-100 USB port Connect the Lightning USB Camera Adapter to your iPhone Then turn on your iPhone Connect the Lightning USB Camera Adapter with your iPhone on to the 2.0 Type A Male - B Male Cable Connect the PT-100 to the wall outlet Turn on the PT-100 and wait until . . . Choose USB Input in your PT-1 and play any song I really hope this can help you |
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