Emotiva 7.2.4 with Bi-Amping

[ttocs]

Nov 20, 2020 18:21:17 GMT -5 giubio said:

OK, now it's my turn :-)

1. The bi-amping:
it can be redundant, not strictly necessary, but I think it can bring significant improvements in listening.
The separate amplification of woofer & mid-range from the tweeter can only bring benefits.
This is at least my experience with my other HiFi and HT systems owned in the past

2. The center speaker:
YES, to match the timbre, the B&W can be an option, but the suitable loudspeaker from B&W costs more than 6000 Euro (in Italy) that is roughly 7200 USD...
In my opinion, an exorbitant price that makes no sense
I'm not willing to spend that amount.

3. The Klipsch RP-500SA:
The four loudspeakers at the upper corners of the room, are "pointing to the listener at the center of the seat.
Sincerely I - technically - do not understand why they should not be considered Dolby Atmos.
On the contrary, I am convinced that direct sound versus reflected sound is better, even if literally Klipsh does not say exactly that.

Not yet definitively decided, but most probably I will go for the 2 x XPA-DR2 to drive the two B&W 802 in pure bi-ambing (one XPA-DR2 for each speaker) and XPA-6 + XPA-4 to drive the center channel in bi-amping and the 4+4 surround speakers .
For the pre-amplifier...I am considering the RMC-1 instead of the 1L version because of the all-channels equipped with the AKM4490 converters and the possibility to add extra channels in the future.

1. True, my opinion as well. It's just a matter of which comes first, and since bi-amping can be done anytime, whenever I changed things in my system when I was doing bi-amping I always went back to single wire on the speakers while tweaking other things. Bi-amping was the last step for me.

2. Yes, that's a lot of money for a speaker that matches your excellent speakers! But there are always other considerations, so there's nothing wrong with freedom of choice.

3. This one is a technical consideration. ATMOS speaker layout places the ceiling speakers within a range of angles. The locations you have available will work, but they are more properly considered to be Height speakers as specified by DTS. Either way, it's just a name. It will sound different than intended by Dolby, but it will still provide a fun experience. When setting up the RMC-1 you'll specify those speakers as Front and Rear Height in the Menu. ATMOS Tops are away from the front and rear walls, mine are 1.6 meters from the front/rear walls.

[leonski]

Read the article on biamp I linked from Eliot Sound Products. Sure, it works, but is not a magic solution. The one big problem is that each amplifier STILL must 'swing' the entire voltage of the input waveform.
Managing a TRUE biamp system with ACTIVE Line Level Crossovers, like MiniDSP while removing the speakers crossover fom the circuit results in REAL benefits if you have time and expertise to make it best....

B&W 8 series is NOT an inexpensive speaker no matter where purchased. The speakers you have not are a wonderful anchor for a 2 channel system.
91db sensitive speakers don't make ANY sense with a KiloWatt of power. And you never answered if you have multiple service circuits to feed all those amps. Many persons here in the States will buy all sorts
of power than use it off a SINGLE 15 amp circuit of 1800 watts / 1440 watts continuous.

Don't be fooled by 'efficiency' either. From your Wall Outlet to the output of the speaker your ENTIRE signal chain is no more than 4% or 5% efficienty. The remainder is HEAT.

Direct V Reflected sound? I don't know from HT stuff these days. They have completely LOST my interest. I find it odd that someone would spend that kind of money on 9.2 or whatever number of speakers and
subs you end up with....when a simlar sum spent on a PAIR of speakers and sub would result in Distinctly HIGH END sound. But that's just me. The additional expense of ALL the stuff needed from wiring to extra outlets
to room modifications like HOLES in the wall and such, just make me blanch. (turn pale)

[theswede]

Nov 20, 2020 18:21:17 GMT -5 giubio said:

OK, now it's my turn :-)

1. The bi-amping:
it can be redundant, not strictly necessary, but I think it can bring significant improvements in listening.
The separate amplification of woofer & mid-range from the tweeter can only bring benefits.
This is at least my experience with my other HiFi and HT systems owned in the past

2. The center speaker:
YES, to match the timbre, the B&W can be an option, but the suitable loudspeaker from B&W costs more than 6000 Euro (in Italy) that is roughly 7200 USD...
In my opinion, an exorbitant price that makes no sense
I'm not willing to spend that amount.

3. The Klipsch RP-500SA:
The four loudspeakers at the upper corners of the room, are "pointing to the listener at the center of the seat.
Sincerely I - technically - do not understand why they should not be considered Dolby Atmos.
On the contrary, I am convinced that direct sound versus reflected sound is better, even if literally Klipsh does not say exactly that.

Not yet definitively decided, but most probably I will go for the 2 x XPA-DR2 to drive the two B&W 802 in pure bi-ambing (one XPA-DR2 for each speaker) and XPA-6 + XPA-4 to drive the center channel in bi-amping and the 4+4 surround speakers .
For the pre-amplifier...I am considering the RMC-1 instead of the 1L version because of the all-channels equipped with the AKM4490 converters and the possibility to add extra channels in the future.

In a serious set up like this I would not use the XPA-6 and XPA-4 but rather the DR-3 and DR-2 without bi-amping these speakers or if cost and space is not an issue use DR amps for everything. I was using XPA G3 for my surround speakers thinking it would not matter but I was seriously wrong, it was a major improvement swapping the surround amp particularly at higher volume settings.

[leonski]

Dec 6, 2020 3:32:31 GMT -5 theswede said:

Nov 20, 2020 18:21:17 GMT -5 giubio said:

OK, now it's my turn :-)

1. The bi-amping:
it can be redundant, not strictly necessary, but I think it can bring significant improvements in listening.
The separate amplification of woofer & mid-range from the tweeter can only bring benefits.
This is at least my experience with my other HiFi and HT systems owned in the past

2. The center speaker:
YES, to match the timbre, the B&W can be an option, but the suitable loudspeaker from B&W costs more than 6000 Euro (in Italy) that is roughly 7200 USD...
In my opinion, an exorbitant price that makes no sense
I'm not willing to spend that amount.

3. The Klipsch RP-500SA:
The four loudspeakers at the upper corners of the room, are "pointing to the listener at the center of the seat.
Sincerely I - technically - do not understand why they should not be considered Dolby Atmos.
On the contrary, I am convinced that direct sound versus reflected sound is better, even if literally Klipsh does not say exactly that.

Not yet definitively decided, but most probably I will go for the 2 x XPA-DR2 to drive the two B&W 802 in pure bi-ambing (one XPA-DR2 for each speaker) and XPA-6 + XPA-4 to drive the center channel in bi-amping and the 4+4 surround speakers .
For the pre-amplifier...I am considering the RMC-1 instead of the 1L version because of the all-channels equipped with the AKM4490 converters and the possibility to add extra channels in the future.

In a serious set up like this I would not use the XPA-6 and XPA-4 but rather the DR-3 and DR-2 without bi-amping these speakers or if cost and space is not an issue use DR amps for everything. I was using XPA G3 for my surround speakers thinking it would not matter but I was seriously wrong, it was a major improvement swapping the surround amp particularly at higher volume settings.

I would only remark as to power needed.
The B&W are probably as bad as the rest of the B&W line, being on the more difficult to drive side.   
I'd look at what the dealer demo'd them with.      Better watts, in this case, ARE better.   

As for the rest?    Klips are pretty sensitive.  The RP500SA does not list a sensitivity in the spec, but rather a 'conforms to dolby atmost'.....whatever THAT actually means.    I suspect little or nothing.  
But for sure?    Speakers for HT duties in surround and such are NOT a difficult load and given the demands, MOST such speakers are a modest load at worst and mostly 'easy' to drive.     The ONLY thing that jumped 
out at me was that DIPOLE speakers are not allowed.     

I WOULD however, agree with theswede about blimp.    Not really needed and IMO, a SINGLE amp of sufficient power and 'goodness' should prevail.   The beneifits of passive biamp are Minimal at best.  

I also see from a quick glance at the ATMOST setup guide that the reference level is about 80db.     This means that LESS THAN 1 WATT per speaker is used for this function.....