xmc1 refurb on sale for $999 does it still make sense to buy

[synmag]

I was a long time owner/fan of the lmc-1 which broke down on my this summer. I picked up a Rotal RSP-1069 which I had high hopes for but I think the lmc-1 sounded better. Does it still make sense at this stage of things i.e. Atmos to buy it? I'm in a condo where 5.1 is more than enough for me. My biggest concern is support if I plunk down the $999 which is almost $1500 Canadian for me after it's all said and done.

I asked through chat what their future support expectation is and was told that they have lots of parts and will support it for the foreseeable future. When I pressed, they said it should be supported for 5 years out of warranty. I'm concerned about spending so much and have it fail out of warranty a few years down the road. If I were to buy it, it would be sufficient for me unless sound formats change significantly. That's my main concern is 2ch audio and movie soundtracks. The hi-def audio is what would be big upgrade for me in addition to the sound quality.

A bit concerned about people reporting various issues with sound re silence between songs etc.

I need to search but anyone know off-hand if 4k movies with high-def sound can be played from an HD/flash drive attached to the USB port?

[cawgijoe]

I owned the XMC-1 prior to trade in for the XMC-2. It was fantastic. I would say the XMC-2 is "better sounding", but certainly not much. If you have no plans to move to Atmos anytime soon, the XMC-1 should be a great unit. it's also great for 2 channel audio.

I guess my only worry as you are asking, is support down the road if repair is needed. The price is excellent at $999US.

Can't answer the flash drive question.

[indyscammer]

Nov 30, 2020 15:00:30 GMT -5 synmag said:

I need to search but anyone know off-hand if 4k movies with high-def sound can be played from an HD/flash drive attached to the USB port?

From the product page which tells me the USB is an audio only input.

Digital Video Inputs and Outputs:
(8): HDMI digital video inputs: HDMI 2.0b with HDCP 2.2 (all inputs support HDMI 2.0b and HDR (including dynamic HDR and Dolby Vision).
(2): HDMI digital video outputs: HDMI 2.0b with HDCP 2.2 (one with CEC and ARC). (both outputs support HDMI 2.0b and HDR - including dynamic HDR and Dolby Vision).
Digital Audio Inputs:
Internal high-performance AM/FM tuner.
(3): Toslink optical S/PDIF digital audio (up to 24/192).
(3): Coax (RCA) electrical S/PDIF digital audio (up to 24/192).
(1): AES/EBU (XLR) digital audio.
(1): USB Type B digital audio (UAC2 USB audio up to 24/192k)
Digital PCM and DSD audio supported on all HDMI inputs
Digital Audio Outputs:
(1): Toslink optical S/PDIF digital audio.
(1): Coax (RCA) electrical S/PDIF digital audio.
Other Inputs:
(2): USB Type A digital data inputs (for firmware updates and future enhancements).
(1): Ethernet port (RJ-45)
(network connection for Dirac and remote control applications).

[repeetavx]

If you only want 7.1 and don't want ATMOS. If you don't care that only the two main channels are fully balanced throughout the signal path. Then I would absolutely recommend the XMC-1. The most amazing sounding processor and DAC that I've ever owned.

[rbk123]

Not a lot of options at that price point due to your 2 channel requirement. Other good sounding processors are pricier and in the XMC-2 cost range. You could get a good 2 channel preamp and that would free you up for a less expensive processor/receiver-with-pre-outs for movies but not sure how painful it would be for you to rig a setup to switch between them, plus the combined cost would put you close to 1k.

I highly doubt they'll support the XMC-1 for 5 more years. I'd wager they'll support it until some short grace period after they end the trade-in program. Keep in mind whatever they may say or tell you, Dan will change course at the drop of a hat so I wouldn't put a lot of your weighing/factoring into that.

On the plus side, XMC-1's should be cheap on the used market 5 years from now.

[repeetavx]

Emotiva is advertising a One Year warranty period. So one year after the last XMC-1 is sold by Emotiva would be by my quess, the last day they "can" support repair of the XMC-1. It would be wonderful if they could support it longer, but I realize that parts availability is an issue.

[synmag]

All good points. Sorry, I don't want to take up space by responding to each of you. Here is my thinking incorporating above comments:

1. I'm sold on the sound quality based on comments here and professional reviews.

2. Given I was happy with the lmc-1's sound any of the newer units would have worked for me as they were all incrementally better sounding based on what I read but there is the non-serviceability issue along with the various configuration limitations.

3. The $999 may be an excellent value compared to the original price however it is still above my budget and I don't like paying for functions I'm not going to use i.e. balanced outputs, Dirac. This is one of the issues holding me back.

4. I agree about not trusting what they say about support times. The question is how long are the units going to be available for which the xmc1 can be traded in for? At one point they will be discontinued at which point there will be no tradein units. There is value to the 1 year warranty. Also, in theory they could decide to "ration" parts for under warranty units vs repairs.

5. I think that fact, that they are selling the refurbished units is keeping used prices up. I could live with the Rotel for longer but then it will decline in value as well so it may make sense to move now.

6. My biggest reason for holding back is the uncertain future of sound formats for movies. Though I imagine 5.1 will be the gold standard, the high-def formats might be superseded by atmos which again eliminates one of the reasons I'd want the xmc1. AFAIK only discs contain high-def audio tracks for movies. It would be nice to play 4k movies with high-def audio from an HD but it looks like that would be limited to a ripped file only as streaming services don't offer it.

7. I hate it when things are this uncertain but I think I might err on the side of caution and wait and see for when used prices on the xmc1 drop into the $500-600 range.

[synmag]

I was watching a youtube video of emotiva showing the xmc-1 on their roadshow in 2014. Dan talks about how they designed it to run cool because most processors run very hot resulting in failed units. I can attest to processors running very hot as many users complained how hot the lmc-1 was and emotiva always said it was "normal". My rotel also runs very hot but yet they don't seem to fail. Anyway it seems that the xmc1 should be more reliable and last longer based on this info.

I'm not sure when the black Friday sale will end but it's still available for $999. Damn...if they keep it at this price long enough I just might fold....

[vcautokid]

Well Processor. Meaning computer. Yeah. Meaning it will always be a moving target and never sits still. Demand on Processors is still high. Prices stay high. Economics there. How important is HDMI switching to you? Is it possible to switch video from the TV? Do you care about the latest audio codecs? We know Atmos is not in play. I went the other way and scored an older Processor for my bedroom for cheap. It will do 5.1. Will not switch HDMI. Does not do the latest DTS and Dolby Digital codecs. But regular DTS and Dolby Digital is there. It is balanced and unbalanced out. Built like a tank. Sounds great, and got it for a deal at $175.00! A $3000.00 Processor when new. Obviously it is old technology, but I carefully assessed my needs and this was all I needed. I could care less about latest anything as my smart TV manages all my content anyway. I even have a cheapy DAC that has optical out going to my Processor to manage my computer audio. Works great. If you don't want to fight obsolescence, than you have to go legacy. There are some that will switch HDMI but doubt at 500 to 600 they will pass 4K. You might get lucky and score one. I would bide my time, and search for bargains in legacy Processors. The XMC-1 is a good Processor and I have one of those too. It is my creation monitor and Processor for my entertainment in my living room. Anything at some point will lose support because parts will become scarce. But common parts like capacitors and other regular parts are bountiful. Anything specialized will dry up rather quickly.

[synmag]

Apologies for the length of this I just thought I provide a longer background to reinforce your point....

I totally agree with you. TBH my first amp was a high-end Yamaha Prologic processor in the early '90s which sounded excellent. Do you know what made the biggest impact on the sound? The sub. When I bought my first system I thought I would save money by not getting a sub and as soon as I set it up and played a movie it was totally lifeless with no impact. As soon as I bought the sub, the next day, it sounded amazing. If technology stood still I would have been happy with that amp pretty much forever. When DD/DTS came out 5.1 discrete channels were a game-changer, yet I didn't find it was an existential shift. When my prologic amp broke down in 2000s naturally I bought a pre/pro with DD/DTS namely the LMC-1. Then the HD audio came out (I can never remember the proper names for them Dolby truehd/dts master audio I believe) and I picked up the first Toshiba hd-dvd player with had the codec built-in and I was able to pass it to my LMC-1's analog in. That was a big step up in sound quality due to the significant bandwidth gain. I don't like to spend money when I don't have to so I never upgraded the LMC-1 to get the high def audio tracks and never upgraded my player with the codecs built in to pass the analog to the LMC-1.

However, when the LMC-1 broke down I still considered having it fixed as I loved the sound and aside from lacking high def I loved the sound. At that time, this summer, I decided to pass on the xmc-1 at USD$1200 as it was way too much and picked up, similar to you, a $3000 Rotel pre/pro for CAD$300. I figured I could still get a player with the high def codecs and pass it to the Rotel later and be a happy camper.

Problem was that the first time I played one of my favorite tracks that I knew well it clipped it at high volume that the LMC-1 had no problems with. I also haven't been able to set up the bass quite right as despite the awesome bass management of the Rotel I couldn't reproduce the punch of a movie track I was used to with the LMC-1. It's not my speakers either as for one the LMC-1 could do it despite its limitation of bass management and even on the Rotel I get good bass from my Denon through analog in using the Denon's bass management amazingly.

So, my intent was to try the Rotel and if I liked it I would keep it at least until the xmc-1 came down in price or something better came along or just keep it until it broke down which it shouldn't as they are built very well.

While I can probably fix the bass if I spent more time with it, I can't get over the fact that it clipped and couldn't handle the volume the LMC-1 could. It is also lacking the "true life like" sound of the LMC-1 which I'm sure the xmc-1 also has. In fact one of the reviews I read about the XMC-1 was that the reviewer loved the fact that it was able to reproduce a ghost's whisper in the lord of the rings coherently where other processors were not. I think I get that same feel generally with the LMC-1 which the Rotel lacks. Interestingly, I was just watching Treadstone on Amazon prime and there is a scene where you can hear people have a conversation in the background. I can't make out what they are saying though I wonder if I could with my LMC-1 or the xmc-1.

This turned out way longer than I thought, thanks for reading if you made it this long. To sum it up, the main reason for going with the xmc-1 is that it is significantly cheaper now. Funny enough, it's at the price the initial processor Emotiva promised was supposed to be that kept getting delayed and new features were added which more than doubled the price. Even the LMC-1 was supposed to be temporary as I was going to use the 40% discount towards the $1000 processor which never happened. Anyway, the main driver besides the price is the sound quality, high def movie codecs, and the ability to stream hi-def audio including DSD. The fact it has enough HDMI inputs to last a life time and can do 4k switching if I needed it to would make it a long term solution for me if it lasted. Without a dedicated movie room 5.1 channels are more than enough for me. No I don't need 4k switching but the 3 hdmi inputs on my tv will be limiting at some point and I don't know of anything that might recreate the sound for this price. The question is do I get it now or wait for it to depreciate more where it really becomes affordable.

The stars are starting to align though. At $999 it is great value compared to new, shipping to Canada is free now, CAD has strengthened recently and the low running temp which should make it more reliable would provide some peace of mind. Man this is agonizing....

[selind40]

synmag..... I have 2 UMC-1's, 1 upstairs and one in the finished part of my basement. The one upstairs has been getting quirky lately. I also have an XSP- G2 that I have set up for 2 channel listening.....of which I do prolly 80% music and 20% TV. The XSP-1 has had power on issues since I bought it, I sent it back for a flat rate fee ( couple hundred bucks )to get it fixed......worked great for about an year, the power on glitch is back. So I was kicking the tires on the XMC-1.....the old 2 birds with 1 stone kinda thing.....but I'm scared of the track record I have experienced with the XSP-1.....thousand bucks isn't the end of the world......but If in a year after the warranty is gone, it too starts acting up, it's all on me....and then I'm looking for another replacement. So....I feel your pain in trying to pull the trigger, GLW your decision.

[synmag]

Thanks for the sympathy. Yes, at this stage in my life CAD$1500 is quiet a bit and while I could make it work it would be painful if I had to replace it in a couple of years due to a breakdown or even if I had to ship it back to service it. My LMC-1 had to be shipped cross-border three times due to the stupid boot up loop. It probably ended up costing me double in the end but at least it did last close to 15 years and I was totally happy with the sound. As a matter of fact I still have the option to have it looked at locally and perhaps getting it fixed if it's simply a few caps.

[selind40]

Dec 2, 2020 15:13:27 GMT -5 synmag said:

Thanks for the sympathy. Yes, at this stage in my life CAD$1500 is quiet a bit and while I could make it work it would be painful if I had to replace it in a couple of years due to a breakdown or even if I had to ship it back to service it. My LMC-1 had to be shipped cross-border three times due to the stupid boot up loop. It probably ended up costing me double in the end but at least it did last close to 15 years and I was totally happy with the sound. As a matter of fact I still have the option to have it looked at locally and perhaps getting it fixed if it's simply a few caps.

If you have a person that can check it out, that may be the best option. Sadly, near me I've not come across a local shop that want's to do the old school type stuff.....the days of an oscilloscope and soldering iron and a guy that has the knowledge to use them is gone I'm afraid. 

[405x5]

Nov 30, 2020 15:00:30 GMT -5 synmag said:

I was a long time owner/fan of the lmc-1 which broke down on my this summer. I picked up a Rotal RSP-1069 which I had high hopes for but I think the lmc-1 sounded better. Does it still make sense at this stage of things i.e. Atmos to buy it? I'm in a condo where 5.1 is more than enough for me. My biggest concern is support if I plunk down the $999 which is almost $1500 Canadian for me after it's all said and done.

I asked through chat what their future support expectation is and was told that they have lots of parts and will support it for the foreseeable future. When I pressed, they said it should be supported for 5 years out of warranty. I'm concerned about spending so much and have it fail out of warranty a few years down the road. If I were to buy it, it would be sufficient for me unless sound formats change significantly. That's my main concern is 2ch audio and movie soundtracks. The hi-def audio is what would be big upgrade for me in addition to the sound quality.

A bit concerned about people reporting various issues with sound re silence between songs etc.

I need to search but anyone know off-hand if 4k movies with high-def sound can be played from an HD/flash drive attached to the USB port?

Were I in your shoes I would buy that XMC1 without waiting and without hesitation.
Dolby Atmos was “the bomb 💣 “ that blew everything. If not for that there would be no “2” and anyone who followed the history knows why.
Nothing wrong with Atmos except for back around 2014, the impeccably bad timing.
1vs 2 XMC sound quality? I would submit that a true A/B setup could make the two virtually indistinguishable, or the XMC 1 APPEAR to sound better than the 2!

Bill

[warwickmon]

I am interested in the XMC-1. I have a Sherbourn SR120 receiver. Can I bypass all the receiver parts of the SR120 and just use the amplifier section to power the XMC-1? With the XMC-1, can I have a 5.1 section and a separate 2 channel section? I have 2 in-wall speakers in my kitchen where the wires run through the wall, under my floor and back up to where the stereo is located. I want to be able to play music in the kitchen through the system. Is that possible with the XMC-1? I have some external USB drives with a bunch of movies. Can I stream these through the XMC-1 through a USB-DAC through this system? Most of these are .avi or .mpeg and some ripped DVDs. Not even 4K.

Thanks, Dan

[Ex_Vintage]

Nov 30, 2020 18:13:34 GMT -5 synmag said:

All good points. Sorry, I don't want to take up space by responding to each of you. Here is my thinking incorporating above comments:


3. The $999 may be an excellent value compared to the original price however it is still above my budget and I don't like paying for functions I'm not going to use i.e. balanced outputs, Dirac. This is one of the issues holding me back.

I find that Dirac is nearly priceless for 2 channel audio. I have a less than perfect room that my system is in (like most) and it would be impossible for me to hang the needed room treatments to eliminate the issues that my room presents. I just re-calibrated my system recently and after setting the new Dirac filters, the sound was very good. Switching back and forth between Stereo mode and Reference Stereo is night and day. Without Dirac, the sound is flat with little to no dimension to the sound. With filters in use, it sounds excellent.

[selind40]

Dec 2, 2020 16:54:10 GMT -5 Ex_Vintage said:

Nov 30, 2020 18:13:34 GMT -5 synmag said:

All good points. Sorry, I don't want to take up space by responding to each of you. Here is my thinking incorporating above comments:


3. The $999 may be an excellent value compared to the original price however it is still above my budget and I don't like paying for functions I'm not going to use i.e. balanced outputs, Dirac. This is one of the issues holding me back.

I find that Dirac is nearly priceless for 2 channel audio. I have a less than perfect room that my system is in (like most) and it would be impossible for me to hang the needed room treatments to eliminate the issues that my room presents. I just re-calibrated my system recently and after setting the new Dirac filters, the sound was very good. Switching back and forth between Stereo mode and Reference Stereo is night and day. Without Dirac, the sound is flat with little to no dimension to the sound. With filters in use, it sounds excellent.

Which mode uses the Dirac?

[Ex_Vintage]

Dec 2, 2020 17:01:12 GMT -5 selind40 said:

Dec 2, 2020 16:54:10 GMT -5 Ex_Vintage said:

Which mode uses the Dirac?

All modes except Reference Stereo and Direct. That's how I have the EQ set for the various modes. Each mode that is not Direct or Reference Stereo are selectable, either Preset 1, Preset 2 or Dirac.

[synmag]

EDIT: see this is why I don't bother quoting people LOL. Never mind multiples...

[/quote]
Were I in your shoes I would buy that XMC1 without waiting and without hesitation.
Dolby Atmos was “the bomb 💣 “ that blew everything. If not for that there would be no “2” and anyone who followed the history knows why.
Nothing wrong with Atmos except for back around 2014, the impeccably bad timing.
1vs 2 XMC sound quality? I would submit that a true A/B setup could make the two virtually indistinguishable, or the XMC 1 APPEAR to sound better than the 2!

Bill
[/quote]

I guess it's fortunate for someone like me that the xmc-1 stayed 7.2 given the prior units had various issues. I didn't follow the history but with the usual delays I can imagine how it went down. A similar thing happened with the LMC-1 as well regarding the inputs. That was the time when HDMI was just coming out hence the after thought attempt with the HDMI input on the LMC-1. It only carried audio so even if I used it the unit was limited by the # of inputs for me not the type. It was going to be a temporary solution for me. The theory was that the LMC-1 was going to be "free" with the 40% savings off the next pre/pro with proper HDMI inputs. With 20/20 hindsight though it's just as well since it would have been the first HDMI standard 1 or was it 1.1.

[synmag]

Dec 2, 2020 17:01:12 GMT -5 selind40 said:

Dec 2, 2020 16:54:10 GMT -5 Ex_Vintage said:

I find that Dirac is nearly priceless for 2 channel audio. I have a less than perfect room that my system is in (like most) and it would be impossible for me to hang the needed room treatments to eliminate the issues that my room presents. I just re-calibrated my system recently and after setting the new Dirac filters, the sound was very good. Switching back and forth between Stereo mode and Reference Stereo is night and day. Without Dirac, the sound is flat with little to no dimension to the sound. With filters in use, it sounds excellent.

I find that ignorance is bliss when it comes to room correction. I managed to make all my previous amps sound great with the included tools. I don't think the Yamaha had any speaker adjustments other than perhaps levels. I had to play around with the LMC-1 but got it to the point it sounded amazing to me without any special tools or room treatments. But since Dirac can be purchased after the fact I believe, it's good to have the option for later.