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Post by gus4emo on Dec 6, 2020 16:06:12 GMT -5
I had some posts in this thread below. Not sure if people still check that thread. Besides, my topic has been more about subwoofers the past few weeks, and not what the original post was about. emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/57757/airmotiv-6s-b1?page=4&scrollTo=1057056I have the SVS PB-2000 Pro. I wanted to try a bigger sub, while on my trial period with SVS. I have had the Hsu VTF-3 for a few weeks. After almost two weeks of tech support with Hsu, and having the amp replaced, we can't figure out why I'm getting low output. Even after the amp replacement. We tried several different setting changes. And I can barely tell it's on, when I'm 2-3 feet away. It moves, but there's little output. I'm sending it back. Hopefully they figure something out. I could still be doing something wrong, but if I am, we can't figure out what. I'm trying the same settings on the receiver from the SVS PB, to the Hsu, and no matter what adjustments I make, I can feel output a few feet away with the SVS PB, but not with the Hsu. Meanwhile, I still want to try one 15" subwoofer before my trial with the SVS PB 2000 Pro ends. I am thinking about the PSA V1512DF. I have an HSU 15 incher and an Outlaw 12 incher, the HSU is set to go deep, it can go down to 16 hz, the Outlaw is set for max output, for music I only use the Outlaw, and both for movies, love both settings... |
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Post by ttocs on Dec 6, 2020 16:25:46 GMT -5
Then I'd be thinking about a mismatch of receiver output impedance and subwoofer input impedance, this is one reason to try the Speaker Level input on the HSU Sub. The speaker would need to be set as Large in the processor, this makes the signal full range. Which Yamaha receiver do you have, and which output is connected to the subwoofer? I have the TSR-700. I'm using a RCA cable on the subwoofer out on the receiver. It's the same output on the receiver I use to connect to the SVS sub. (Both SVSs I tried, the SB 2000 Pro and the PB 2000 Pro). What type of cable would I need to connect from subwoofer out to speaker level? I don't have much time to order another cable online. I already asked Hsu to create a return label. And if I order the PSA, I want to do it tonight so it can ship tomorrow. This should be a 15 foot cable I can find at Best Buy today. So if you can find such a 15 foot cable at Best Buy, and link to it, then I can see if it's in stock. Thanks for your suggestions and your time.
Speaker Level connection uses plain old speaker wire. Connect from the Speaker Out terminals of the Left or Right, remember to set them as Large for full range, and connect to Speaker Input on subwoofer. Disconnect the RCA cable. As always, volume low to begin with. |
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Post by ttocs on Dec 6, 2020 16:29:40 GMT -5
I'm still relatively new to receivers, having only gotten one in October. But the way I've used them with subs, is to use the sub out on the receiver, to the LFE in on the sub, using a RCA cable. This worked for the two SVS subs. And according to the instructions from Hsu, this was the way to do it too. Plus during the tech support with Hsu, this was also how they said to connect it. So they said it was the right way. Yeah, for the record, I'm just suggesting the Speaker Level connection for diagnosis. Using this connection is for very specific results and when there are other controls that can be used for the ultimate result. |
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Post by ttocs on Dec 6, 2020 16:40:39 GMT -5
What type of cable would I need to connect from subwoofer out to speaker level? I don't have much time to order another cable online. I already asked Hsu to create a return label. To aid with a visual, here's a diagram showing the speaker cables going from the 5 channel amp to the Main Left and Right speaker inputs (as well as the Wides and Center), and then continuing to each subwoofer's Speaker Level Inputs.  |
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Post by nuraman00 on Dec 6, 2020 16:58:55 GMT -5
I have the TSR-700. I'm using a RCA cable on the subwoofer out on the receiver. It's the same output on the receiver I use to connect to the SVS sub. (Both SVSs I tried, the SB 2000 Pro and the PB 2000 Pro). What type of cable would I need to connect from subwoofer out to speaker level? I don't have much time to order another cable online. I already asked Hsu to create a return label. And if I order the PSA, I want to do it tonight so it can ship tomorrow. This should be a 15 foot cable I can find at Best Buy today. So if you can find such a 15 foot cable at Best Buy, and link to it, then I can see if it's in stock. Thanks for your suggestions and your time.
Speaker Level connection uses plain old speaker wire. Connect from the Speaker Out terminals of the Left or Right, remember to set them as Large for full range, and connect to Speaker Input on subwoofer. Disconnect the RCA cable. As always, volume low to begin with. Which of these speaker ports do I use?
Page 30.
Right now, the 2 Surrounds; the Center; and the two Fronts are in use.
Also, if I use speaker wire, do I then set the Hsu crossover to IN?
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Post by nuraman00 on Dec 6, 2020 17:03:45 GMT -5
What type of cable would I need to connect from subwoofer out to speaker level? I don't have much time to order another cable online. I already asked Hsu to create a return label. To aid with a visual, here's a diagram showing the speaker cables going from the 5 channel amp to the Main Left and Right speaker inputs (as well as the Wides and Center), and then continuing to each subwoofer's Speaker Level Inputs. Thanks for the picture.
I don't have a XMC-2 or a basX 800.
I just have the Yamaha TSR-700 (same thing as the V6A, the TSR-700 is a Costco version of the V6A).
What outputs from the TSR-700 can I use to connect to the Hsu? Other than the RCA sub out. Since we want to try speaker wire now.
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Post by ttocs on Dec 6, 2020 17:17:17 GMT -5
Speaker Level connection uses plain old speaker wire. Connect from the Speaker Out terminals of the Left or Right, remember to set them as Large for full range, and connect to Speaker Input on subwoofer. Disconnect the RCA cable. As always, volume low to begin with. Which of these speaker ports do I use?
Page 30.
Right now, the 2 Surrounds; the Center; and the two Fronts are in use.
Also, if I use speaker wire, do I then set the Hsu crossover to IN?
Use your choice of Left or Right main speaker output. The Hsu crossover should be set to its highest setting for its range. The main purpose here is to see if the Speaker Input on the sub works better than RCA input. So any increase in output is welcome. The other channels can stay connected if you wish, no harm. Please make the Left/Right Fronts Large in the processor so the sub gets all the low frequencies. |
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Post by ttocs on Dec 6, 2020 17:20:43 GMT -5
To aid with a visual, here's a diagram showing the speaker cables going from the 5 channel amp to the Main Left and Right speaker inputs (as well as the Wides and Center), and then continuing to each subwoofer's Speaker Level Inputs. Thanks for the picture.
I don't have a XMC-2 or a basX 800.
I just have the Yamaha TSR-700 (same thing as the V6A, the TSR-700 is a Costco version of the V6A).
What outputs from the TSR-700 can I use to connect to the Hsu? Other than the RCA sub out. Since we want to try speaker wire now.
If it's easier, just disconnect the speaker cable from the Left or Right front speaker and connect THAT to the subwoofer. It's a true speaker wire connection, nothing fancy, just speaker wire. |
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Post by nuraman00 on Dec 6, 2020 17:29:45 GMT -5
Which of these speaker ports do I use?
Page 30.
Right now, the 2 Surrounds; the Center; and the two Fronts are in use.
Also, if I use speaker wire, do I then set the Hsu crossover to IN?
Use your choice of Left or Right main speaker output. The Hsu crossover should be set to its highest setting for its range. The main purpose here is to see if the Speaker Input on the sub works better than RCA input. So any increase in output is welcome. The other channels can stay connected if you wish, no harm. Please make the Left/Right Fronts Large in the processor so the sub gets all the low frequencies. Thanks for the picture.
I don't have a XMC-2 or a basX 800.
I just have the Yamaha TSR-700 (same thing as the V6A, the TSR-700 is a Costco version of the V6A).
What outputs from the TSR-700 can I use to connect to the Hsu? Other than the RCA sub out. Since we want to try speaker wire now.
If it's easier, just disconnect the speaker cable from the Left or Right front speaker and connect THAT to the subwoofer. It's a true speaker wire connection, nothing fancy, just speaker wire. If I do that, and this works, how will I eventually connect the front speakers, and the sub, together?
Or could I also use one of the "surround back / zone 2 / bi-amp" labeled ports from the receiver?
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Post by nuraman00 on Dec 6, 2020 17:31:12 GMT -5
Which of these speaker ports do I use?
Page 30.
Right now, the 2 Surrounds; the Center; and the two Fronts are in use.
Also, if I use speaker wire, do I then set the Hsu crossover to IN?
Use your choice of Left or Right main speaker output. The Hsu crossover should be set to its highest setting for its range.The main purpose here is to see if the Speaker Input on the sub works better than RCA input. So any increase in output is welcome. The other channels can stay connected if you wish, no harm. Please make the Left/Right Fronts Large in the processor so the sub gets all the low frequencies. There's also an "out" or an "in" switch for the Hsu crossover setting. When using the sub out from the receiver, I'm supposed to set the crossover to out.
I think for this speaker wire method, I should use in?
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Dec 6, 2020 17:36:39 GMT -5
Use your choice of Left or Right main speaker output. The Hsu crossover should be set to its highest setting for its range. The main purpose here is to see if the Speaker Input on the sub works better than RCA input. So any increase in output is welcome. The other channels can stay connected if you wish, no harm. Please make the Left/Right Fronts Large in the processor so the sub gets all the low frequencies. If it's easier, just disconnect the speaker cable from the Left or Right front speaker and connect THAT to the subwoofer. It's a true speaker wire connection, nothing fancy, just speaker wire. If I do that, and this works, how will I eventually connect the front speakers, and the sub, together?
Or could I also use one of the "surround back / zone 2 / bi-amp" labeled ports from the receiver?
If it works, this could prove there is something wrong with the RCA input or that there is an incompatibility, either way, Hsu would need to explain why there would be a difference. In your system, I would not recommend to use the Speaker Level input. This input is dedicated to those channels that are directly connected, and those channels must be set as Large so the sub can "receive" the low frequencies. In my system this connection is to "augment" the bass for my L&R set as Large, but I also have controls on the speakers which aid in blending the subs. It gets complicated. But in my diagram you can trace the yellow lines which represents Bass Management for all Small speakers. |
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Post by ttocs on Dec 6, 2020 17:37:35 GMT -5
Use your choice of Left or Right main speaker output. The Hsu crossover should be set to its highest setting for its range.The main purpose here is to see if the Speaker Input on the sub works better than RCA input. So any increase in output is welcome. The other channels can stay connected if you wish, no harm. Please make the Left/Right Fronts Large in the processor so the sub gets all the low frequencies. There's also an "out" or an "in" switch for the Hsu crossover setting. When using the sub out from the receiver, I'm supposed to set the crossover to out.
I think for this speaker wire method, I should use in?
oh, sorry, I missed that. Set that to IN. Which probably means that the crossover is Active. And make certain there is not other input to the sub. |
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Post by nuraman00 on Dec 6, 2020 17:44:49 GMT -5
If I do that, and this works, how will I eventually connect the front speakers, and the sub, together?
Or could I also use one of the "surround back / zone 2 / bi-amp" labeled ports from the receiver?
If it works, this could prove there is something wrong with the RCA input or that there is an incompatibility, either way, Hsu would need to explain why there would be a difference. In your system, I would not recommend to use the Speaker Level input. This input is dedicated to those channels that are directly connected, and those channels must be set as Large so the sub can "receive" the low frequencies. In my system this connection is to "augment" the bass for my L&R set as Large, but I also have controls on the speakers which aid in blending the subs. It gets complicated. But in my diagram you can trace the yellow lines which represents Bass Management for all Small speakers. Ok, so this is just meant as something I'm trying temporarily, given my setup. It's not a long term solution, for my setup.
Ok, trying it now.
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Post by ttocs on Dec 6, 2020 17:47:01 GMT -5
If it works, this could prove there is something wrong with the RCA input or that there is an incompatibility, either way, Hsu would need to explain why there would be a difference. In your system, I would not recommend to use the Speaker Level input. This input is dedicated to those channels that are directly connected, and those channels must be set as Large so the sub can "receive" the low frequencies. In my system this connection is to "augment" the bass for my L&R set as Large, but I also have controls on the speakers which aid in blending the subs. It gets complicated. But in my diagram you can trace the yellow lines which represents Bass Management for all Small speakers. Ok, so this is just meant as something I'm trying temporarily, given my setup. It's not a long term solution, for my setup.
Ok, trying it now.
yep |
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Post by nuraman00 on Dec 6, 2020 18:20:37 GMT -5
Ok, I tried it. The sub appears to be moving, just like before. It does just about everything except actually produce output.
Interestingly enough, even though I only had the high level input connected, it sounded a tiny bit more responsive when I had the crossover switch set to out, instead of in. Even though if using high level inputs, I should be using in.
When I had it set to in, I could move the volume to 3 o clock, before I started hearing rattling. But just like before, even if it rattles, it still doesn't produce bass output.
I think I am done with this. I'm connecting back my regular speakers now.
And remember when I said I did 2 stupid things yesterday, while moving my subs around?
I did another stupid thing just now. I fell off my rolling chair, onto the ground, right after I hit play. I can't remember the last time I fell off this chair, and I've had it for 21 years I think.
I think I just need to order the PSA, hopefully that works as it should, I can then decide which I like better between it and the SVS PB 2000 Pro, and finally put this whole home theater setup to bed.
And watch the Blu Ray concert that I won in a contest, which is what inspired me to get started on this whole setup, in late September. That's supposed to be the thing I look forward to.
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Post by ttocs on Dec 6, 2020 18:42:16 GMT -5
Ok, I tried it. The sub appears to be moving, just like before. It does just about everything except actually produce output. Interestingly enough, even though I only had the high level input connected, it sounded a tiny bit more responsive when I had the crossover switch set to out, instead of in. Even though if using high level inputs, I should be using in. When I had it set to in, I could move the volume to 3 o clock, before I started hearing rattling. But just like before, even if it rattles, it still doesn't produce bass output. I think I am done with this. I'm connecting back my regular speakers now. And remember when I said I did 2 stupid things yesterday, while moving my subs around? I did another stupid thing just now. I fell off my rolling chair, onto the ground, right after I hit play. I can't remember the last time I fell off this chair, and I've had it for 21 years I think. I think I just need to order the PSA, hopefully that works as it should, I can then decide which I like better between it and the SVS PB 2000 Pro, and finally put this whole home theater setup to bed. And watch the Blu Ray concert that I won in a contest, which is what inspired me to get started on this whole setup, in late September. That's supposed to be the thing I look forward to. Ouch! I hope you're ok. I haven't read the manual for that sub, but I suspect that when set to "Out" there is no crossover involved so the subwoofer will be receiving higher frequencies and try to produce those. I'm concerned about the "it's moving but not producing bass" thing. If the woofer is moving, it must be making sound. Maybe that sound is being cancelled and thus inaudible? If sound is being cancelled, it takes two drivers to accomplish this. It's one of the reasons I asked about phase yesterday. Have you used a SPL meter to see if it detects anything? And if so, at what SPL? You would need to hold the meter, or your phone with a SPL app, almost against the subwoofer. Something just occurred to me. Have you used the Yamaha's built-in calibration? If so, I suggest you do a quick run to see if the sub behaves differently. |
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Post by nuraman00 on Dec 6, 2020 19:07:42 GMT -5
Ok, I tried it. The sub appears to be moving, just like before. It does just about everything except actually produce output. Interestingly enough, even though I only had the high level input connected, it sounded a tiny bit more responsive when I had the crossover switch set to out, instead of in. Even though if using high level inputs, I should be using in. When I had it set to in, I could move the volume to 3 o clock, before I started hearing rattling. But just like before, even if it rattles, it still doesn't produce bass output. I think I am done with this. I'm connecting back my regular speakers now. And remember when I said I did 2 stupid things yesterday, while moving my subs around? I did another stupid thing just now. I fell off my rolling chair, onto the ground, right after I hit play. I can't remember the last time I fell off this chair, and I've had it for 21 years I think. I think I just need to order the PSA, hopefully that works as it should, I can then decide which I like better between it and the SVS PB 2000 Pro, and finally put this whole home theater setup to bed. And watch the Blu Ray concert that I won in a contest, which is what inspired me to get started on this whole setup, in late September. That's supposed to be the thing I look forward to. Ouch! I hope you're ok. I haven't read the manual for that sub, but I suspect that when set to "Out" there is no crossover involved so the subwoofer will be receiving higher frequencies and try to produce those. I'm concerned about the "it's moving but not producing bass" thing. If the woofer is moving, it must be making sound. Maybe that sound is being cancelled and thus inaudible? If sound is being cancelled, it takes two drivers to accomplish this. It's one of the reasons I asked about phase yesterday. Have you used a SPL meter to see if it detects anything? And if so, at what SPL? You would need to hold the meter, or your phone with a SPL app, almost against the subwoofer. Something just occurred to me. Have you used the Yamaha's built-in calibration? If so, I suggest you do a quick run to see if the sub behaves differently. Yes, I tried Yamaha's calibration before the first time I used the Hsu. Since I was switching from a SVS to a Hsu.
I have a Zoom H2N digital recorder which can monitor dB levels. I tried that before, over a week ago I think. With the SVS, I can see some movement. With the Hsu, nothing really.
I tried switching the phase too, most of the time it didn't make a difference. Except one time, when I did switch it to 180 degrees phase, it sounded worse / weird. Most of the other time though, when I would switch it to 180 degrees, it wouldn't make much difference.
I've tried switching the phase on both the receiver, as well as the Hsu.
If the sound is being cancelled, I don't know by what. I've tried having both the SVS and the Hsu, side by side, in many areas in the room, at this point. The SVS always does something.
It just shouldn't be this hard to get it to do something reasonable. I haven't even gotten it to do that, in 2 weeks. Not one time.
Also, my previous sub, from 1998 - 2016, was an 11 lb., 44 watt subwoofer. I was happy with that, during that entire time. I don't think the Hsu has even been able to match that, because something is likely wrong with it. If I'm 2-3 feet away from a sub, I should be able to hear that it's a sub. Even my old 44 watt sub did something. I didn't have to hassle with it. It was my first sub, I had never heard one before. I plugged it in, turned it on, and thought it was great.
Maybe I'm mis-remembering that sub, since it's been more than 4 years since I had it, but I remember just being able to plug it in, and I could tell it worked. And I was in the same room the last time I had it, in 2016, as I am now.
That's all I've been trying to get at with his Hsu, to start with. I was easily able to get 2 SVS subs working, now it's just a matter of what's the best I can do, given my space, the sound I want in my big couch, and furniture layout?
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Post by ttocs on Dec 6, 2020 19:27:26 GMT -5
Yes, I tried Yamaha's calibration before the first time I used the Hsu. Since I was switching from a SVS to a Hsu. The calibration was "before" connecting the Hsu? or the calibration was run with the Hsu? I'm just a bit confused here. But yes, you're right, it should not be difficult at all to get sound from a sub. It's just baffling. The SVS works normally and gets loud, correct? Rattles the windows and such? |
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Post by ttocs on Dec 6, 2020 19:38:34 GMT -5
Have you checked the Speaker settings in the YPAO area for +-Levels for the subwoofer?  |
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Post by nuraman00 on Dec 7, 2020 0:12:25 GMT -5
Yes, I tried Yamaha's calibration before the first time I used the Hsu. Since I was switching from a SVS to a Hsu. The calibration was "before" connecting the Hsu? or the calibration was run with the Hsu? I'm just a bit confused here. But yes, you're right, it should not be difficult at all to get sound from a sub. It's just baffling. The SVS works normally and gets loud, correct? Rattles the windows and such? For the calibration, what I mean is I connected the wires, then ran Yamaha's YPAO, so it could approximate the distance and do room correction.
Both sealed SVS and the ported SVS work normally. (I returned the sealed a few days ago, since I decided the ported was better.)
I run the SVS volume to max, and the AVR sub volume to +6 (minimum is at -10).
+6 for music, I turn it down to +3 for TV.
I might turn it down to +3 for certain songs too, as +6 would rattle too much.
It doesn't exactly rattle the windows, mainly because I just have two tiny widows, then a sliding door in this room. But if I'm a few feet away, I can definitely feel its impact, and I can definitely say it's a lot better than my old entry level sub that I had for more than 16 years, which I was happy with. I am now just trying to see if I can get something with a little more impact with certain songs when I'm on my couch, which is a little farther away.
For most things, the SVS PB is fine. But if I'm going through this whole setup process, I might as well see what options are out there. Since I don't change my equipment very often, as seen by how long I kept that old sub.
That's why I wanted to try a 15" driver. The heights of these subs are going to make it a little harder to fit where I want them. But if I think they sound a lot better, it will be worth it.
If not, for most material, the SVS PB is fine.
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