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Post by jumper on Dec 27, 2020 16:51:00 GMT -5
Looking for some opinions on the XPA-DR1 monoblocks as an upgrade to my XPA-1L, thoughts on any noticeable improvements would be greatly appreciated. I'm also seriously considering the ATI AT-6002, I know it's in a higher price category but I like the specs. Any thoughts on the ATI vs my XPA-1L or the DR1's? Any other amp recommendations? I've got full range towers that play down to 25hz and 4ohms so I feel they can benefit from great amplification.
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 27, 2020 16:57:36 GMT -5
My suggestion, spend your money on a decent sub woofer, that will make far more of an improvement than swapping out XPA-1L's.
Happy New Year
Gary
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Post by jumper on Dec 27, 2020 17:22:03 GMT -5
My suggestion, spend your money on a decent sub woofer, that will make far more of an improvement than swapping out XPA-1L's. Happy New Year Gary I agree 100%, how about doing both? 😀 |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Dec 27, 2020 19:31:50 GMT -5
Looking for some opinions on the XPA-DR1 monoblocks as an upgrade to my XPA-1L, thoughts on any noticeable improvements would be greatly appreciated. I'm also seriously considering the ATI AT-6002, I know it's in a higher price category but I like the specs. Any thoughts on the ATI vs my XPA-1L or the DR1's? Any other amp recommendations? I've got full range towers that play down to 25hz and 4ohms so I feel they can benefit from great amplification. I asked Lonnie Vaughn his opinion in November of last year what the best amp, in terms of sound quality, Emotiva has ever sold. He said it was the XPA-1L. So, you already have their best amp in that regards. |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Dec 27, 2020 19:38:53 GMT -5
Looking for some opinions on the XPA-DR1 monoblocks as an upgrade to my XPA-1L, thoughts on any noticeable improvements would be greatly appreciated. I'm also seriously considering the ATI AT-6002, I know it's in a higher price category but I like the specs. Any thoughts on the ATI vs my XPA-1L or the DR1's? Any other amp recommendations? I've got full range towers that play down to 25hz and 4ohms so I feel they can benefit from great amplification. Another option might be the ATI 4002 depending on your speakers. My buddy has the Revel Salon 2 with the ATI 6002 driving them. It’s one powerful amp and super clean! |
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Post by rbk123 on Dec 27, 2020 22:07:59 GMT -5
I asked Lonnie Vaughn his opinion in November of last year what the best amp, in terms of sound quality, Emotiva has ever sold. He said it was the XPA-1L. So, you already have their best amp in that regards. Interesting. I have read on here in the past he said that about the SA-250. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 27, 2020 23:33:59 GMT -5
My suggestion, spend your money on a decent sub woofer, that will make far more of an improvement than swapping out XPA-1L's. I agree 100%, how about doing both? 😀 Unnecessary, by adding a suitable subwoofer you will have relieved the XPA-1L’s of more than 50% of their previous load in a wattage sense. This frees them up to even better handle (as if that’s possible) the frequencies above. Cheers Gary |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Dec 27, 2020 23:52:08 GMT -5
I asked Lonnie Vaughn his opinion in November of last year what the best amp, in terms of sound quality, Emotiva has ever sold. He said it was the XPA-1L. So, you already have their best amp in that regards. Interesting. I have read on here in the past he said that about the SA-250. The SA-250 is an older amp. So, depending on when he said that, both could be true. It could also be a matter of semantics as technically, the SA-250 was a Sherborn amp. |
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Post by tropicallutefisk on Dec 28, 2020 6:38:14 GMT -5
I replaced a 1L with a DR1 for my center channel. I wouldn't say it was a huge improvement, but it was a noticeable improvement. To my ears, the DR1 is more refined and smoother. I always felt there was just a hint of grittiness to the 1L. I don't regret the choice at all, but if I was cash strapped and looking for improvements I'm not sure if the 1L to DR1 swap would be most bang for the buck. As for ATI, I have only heard the 6002, but it was outstanding. It was demo'd with a pair of Maggie 0.7s and it really made them sing. I would love to hear ATI and EMO side by side for a direct comparison.
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Post by routlaw on Dec 28, 2020 18:59:19 GMT -5
While I've never experienced the XPA-1L's I did own the XPA-1 Gen 2 for about 6 years. Really like them but changed over to the DR-1's for the mains and the DR-3 for center and rears in a combo HT and and two channel music system. I have no regrets what so ever and for a litany of different reasons. Like you I also have full size towers that play even lower than yours. Plus they are a difficult load to drive due to their impedance curve. However my Genesis speakers are effectively bi-amped with built in subwoofers. Regardless I can easily tell the difference between the many amps I have had driving these speakers including but not limited to the Gen 2 mono blocs compared to the DR-1's. In my system the difference was immediately noticeable and not subtle.
Until Recently I had never heard of the ATI line of audio gear but having been down the very expensive audio gear path far too many times their offerings would not interest me in the least even if they outperformed the Emotiva equipment by substantial margins, which I have my doubts. I'm sure they play well and sound great but so does my system as it exist now and for a fraction of the price.
I can't comment on why Lonnie made the statement regarding the 1L's compared to the other line of amps they have made but perhaps they really do outperform the XPA-1's though I am not sure why this would be. Sort of doesn't make sense to me given they were cut from the same genetic cloth one just having more power than the other.
Hope this helps.
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Post by leonski on Dec 28, 2020 20:01:47 GMT -5
JUMPER:
Or maybe rid yourself of the Panny Plasma which must be nerly a decade old. And 1080 at best. Some models of Panasonic Plasmas were among the best ever up to that point. Panasonic got many of the engineers from the Pioneer KURO project and
put them to good use.
but times have changed and the NEW standard are the OLED sets from LG, who apparently sells panels to SONY, VIZEO and Panasonic.. My LG is hand-down the best display I've ever seen in a house.
ROUTLAW:
The Genesis 6.1 is 90db sensitive which generally means it makes GOOD use of available power. But you SHOULD use a 'good' amp rated to better than 4ohms. I don't know how particularly difficult this is to drive, not having access to phase / reactance measures.
I hope you have 2 or 3 dedicated circuits at the very least.
It is NOT THE AMOUNT of POWER but rather how well the amplifier does driving reactive loads. 2 amps can measure within 1db into a resistor but differ drastically when driving a REAL load.
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Post by jjkessler on Dec 28, 2020 23:12:28 GMT -5
I have 11 XPA-1L ‘s in my system being fed by my RMC-1L driving a 7.2.4 home theater. I previously had XPA-1’s driving the F/C/R and went back to all XPA-1L’s and personally like them quite a bit. Sound phenomenal in my home theater to me.
The subs are dual SVS PB12 plus
11 channels of fully differential audio from processor through the amplifier with great channel separation. at a bargain price in my opinion (I’m pretty sure I’m well under $5k for all 11 amps). Also keeps the basement home theater nice and warm
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Post by leonski on Dec 29, 2020 2:25:45 GMT -5
When I was thinking 'upgrade' the 1L was on the list. But since I'm a stereo guy? Only a pair of 'em....
JJ? If I had that setup, I'd insist in 4 or 5 dedicated circuits....
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Post by jumper on Dec 29, 2020 3:01:55 GMT -5
JUMPER: Or maybe rid yourself of the Panny Plasma which must be nerly a decade old. And 1080 at best. Some models of Panasonic Plasmas were among the best ever up to that point. Panasonic got many of the engineers from the Pioneer KURO project and put them to good use. but times have changed and the NEW standard are the OLED sets from LG, who apparently sells panels to SONY, VIZEO and Panasonic.. My LG is hand-down the best display I've ever seen in a house. Lol, where is it showing that I have a Panny plasma??? That was ages ago! I've got 65" LG OLED's (CX) in the house now. But my amp upgrade is for my 2 channel rig, not HT. 😀 |
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Post by rbk123 on Dec 29, 2020 8:52:42 GMT -5
Lol, where is it showing that I have a Panny plasma??? Your signature says "Panny 60" plasma". |
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Post by routlaw on Dec 29, 2020 12:05:07 GMT -5
ROUTLAW: The Genesis 6.1 is 90db sensitive which generally means it makes GOOD use of available power. But you SHOULD use a 'good' amp rated to better than 4ohms. I don't know how particularly difficult this is to drive, not having access to phase / reactance measures. I hope you have 2 or 3 dedicated circuits at the very least. It is NOT THE AMOUNT of POWER but rather how well the amplifier does driving reactive loads. 2 amps can measure within 1db into a resistor but differ drastically when driving a REAL load. I have 4 dedicated circuits in this room. Your connotation of "good" amp is not clear to me within the context of this conversation, but do recall your many comments regarding your dislike or disdain for these new Get 3 amps. However understand I have owned and had the following different amps driving the same speakers, Krell, PS Audio, InnerSound (now Roger Sanders Audio) all engineered and made by Coda, Arcam, Marantz Integrated, and now two different Emotiva. They all performed differently for sure, not a single one of them had a melt down no matter how hard they were driven and as difficult as it will be for some to believe in my opinion the Krell performed the second worst even though it was rated to double its load all the way down to 1 ohm from a 200 WPC @ 8 ohm load. Go figure. I'll stick with the DR-1's for now. I have no issue with them at least not yet. Thanks |
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Post by leonski on Dec 29, 2020 14:08:30 GMT -5
ROUTLAW: The Genesis 6.1 is 90db sensitive which generally means it makes GOOD use of available power. But you SHOULD use a 'good' amp rated to better than 4ohms. I don't know how particularly difficult this is to drive, not having access to phase / reactance measures. I hope you have 2 or 3 dedicated circuits at the very least. It is NOT THE AMOUNT of POWER but rather how well the amplifier does driving reactive loads. 2 amps can measure within 1db into a resistor but differ drastically when driving a REAL load. I have 4 dedicated circuits in this room. Your connotation of "good" amp is not clear to me within the context of this conversation, but do recall your many comments regarding your dislike or disdain for these new Get 3 amps. However understand I have owned and had the following different amps driving the same speakers, Krell, PS Audio, InnerSound (now Roger Sanders Audio) all engineered and made by Coda, Arcam, Marantz Integrated, and now two different Emotiva. They all performed differently for sure, not a single one of them had a melt down no matter how hard they were driven and as difficult as it will be for some to believe in my opinion the Krell performed the second worst even though it was rated to double its load all the way down to 1 ohm from a 200 WPC @ 8 ohm load. Go figure. I'll stick with the DR-1's for now. I have no issue with them at least not yet. Thanks A good amp is based on the ability to drive whatever load you require of it. If you have a really awful speaker with high excursions in impedance AND reactance, you will need a robust amp. Too bad that those who TEST such things rarely make those kinds of measures. Stereophile is the exception. Look at frequency response V impedance graphic for any speaker and it will include PHASE data as another line. In General, a speaker where the lines cross or are in close proximity to one another AND very low, like below 3 ohms maybe, and over 45 degrees, can be construed to be a more difficult load. Driving a resistor to heat the room is NOT really the issue here. I don't have any data on the Genesis speakers. And VERY good to have multiple circuits. Most are not familiar with reactance in a speaker. When measured at a certain frequency it can look alternately like a Capacitor OR an Inductor. It varies constantly from one end of the frequency range to the other extreme. SOME amps are not capable or simply don't LIKE such loadings. Some speakers like the now gone Apogee Scintilla went down to 1 ohm or whatever and were Notorious Amp Killers. This is THE extreme example of a low impedance speaker. www.reality-audio.com/scintilla.htmlAs for the new amps? IMO, only......I am not a big fan of switchers and the new 'rail' design (G? or H?) may be audibly problematic. But without a doubt, EMO found the path forward to SAVE WEIGHT which I believe was killing them in shipping and returns. Also, the 'High Bias' designs of G2 and the 1L are gone. Back to a more conventional bias scheme. That may be an issue to some. I really nearly bought the 1L amps years ago when I was ridding myself of a 'D' amp. I WILL ADMIT to a prejudice here. I also like dynamic power....which I tend to value more than continuous power. For which a conventional linear is Just Fine.... And the MOST IMPORTANT part? YOU seem happy and content with your DR-1s. That is terrific and I hope you don't 'get the itch' to spend yet MORE $$$ on upgrades which may not actually substantially Better what you have NOW. Was your Sanders amp the Magtech? I saw and heard that at a show and put it on the 'aspiration' list. But it was also driving their 'Stats......big huge panels. |
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Post by jumper on Dec 29, 2020 14:54:06 GMT -5
Lol, where is it showing that I have a Panny plasma??? Your signature says "Panny 60" plasma". Thanks, I've been browsing from my phone and my signature doesn't show up for me there - went ahead and updated. Those plasmas were fantastic though ;-) |
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Post by leonski on Dec 29, 2020 16:14:10 GMT -5
You had me worried there for a while. Best of the Panasonic Plasma sets were VERY good, indeed, but outstripped by the newest OLED displays.
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Post by routlaw on Dec 29, 2020 17:46:03 GMT -5
www.reality-audio.com/scintilla.htmlAs for the new amps? IMO, only......I am not a big fan of switchers and the new 'rail' design (G? or H?) may be audibly problematic. But without a doubt, EMO found the path forward to SAVE WEIGHT which I believe was killing them in shipping and returns. Also, the 'High Bias' designs of G2 and the 1L are gone. Back to a more conventional bias scheme. That may be an issue to some. I really nearly bought the 1L amps years ago when I was ridding myself of a 'D' amp. I WILL ADMIT to a prejudice here. I also like dynamic power....which I tend to value more than continuous power. For which a conventional linear is Just Fine.... And the MOST IMPORTANT part? YOU seem happy and content with your DR-1s. That is terrific and I hope you don't 'get the itch' to spend yet MORE $$$ on upgrades which may not actually substantially Better what you have NOW. Was your Sanders amp the Magtech? I saw and heard that at a show and put it on the 'aspiration' list. But it was also driving their 'Stats......big huge panels. I am familiar with some of the old Apogee speakers. One friend has a pair of Studio Grands perhaps one of if not the best speaker I have ever heard and with some mods we implemented made them considerably better. We changed the double 10" woofers per side, total of four, with some updated Seas drivers that were much faster and more articulate than the original supplied cheap Vifa's. The owner used to have a pair of Krell Studio Master mono blocs but we replaced them with the InnerSound KikoWatt mono blocs which blew the doors off the Krells. Not even close. Also heard the Scintillas once but didn't care for them at the time being driven by another Krell stereo amp, but don't remember the model. The Sanders amps at the time were referred to as the ESL amps (if memory serves me correct, its been awhile) which were 300 WPC with a boat load of silicon on each side something like a total of about 40 output devices. This little 40 lb amp also annihilated the Krells. Also had on loan for a period of time a pair of KiloWatt mono blocs, very nice amps perhaps the best I have ever heard. Also familiar with those hybrid Electrostatic speakers, even had a pair of them for awhile. Incredible speaker but extremely small sweet spot yet very efficient at 98 db, when used with their crossover amp. Yes its highly unlikely I will be changing amps anytime soon. Regardless of what anyone thinks of this technology my perspective is they are the most effortless sounding amps I have encountered. It's obvious by now these amps are not for everyone however. Each to his own. I'll quit at that but be glad to answer any questions anyone might have about the DR-1's. Thanks |
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