Speaker upgrade suggestions

[rdavidw]

Looking for some suggestions on upgrading my system.  Here is what I an currently running:

Family Room
5.1 - Polk LSi15 Towers / LSiC Center / LSiFX Surrounds / Velodyne SPL 1200 Sub
Emotiva XMC-1 Processor / XPA-2 Amp / XPA-3 Amp
Samsung 82" 4K TV / Pro-Ject RM 1.3 Turntable (Acrylic Platter, Ortofon 2M Blue Cartridge, Pro-Ject Speedbox S & Tube Box S) / Roku Ultra / Media PC

Basement
7.1 - Polk S60 Towers / 255C-LS Center / 265-LS Surrounds / 80F/X-LS Rear Surrounds / SVS PC-2000 Sub
Emotiva MC-700 Processor / A-300 Amp / A-500 Amp
Vizio 70" TV / Roku Ultra / Media PC / PS4

Master Bedroom
5.1 - Polk 265-LS In-Wall / 255C-LS Center / 80F/X-LS Surrounds / Emotiva Bass-X S8 Sub
Pioneer Elite VSX-47TX Receiver
Vizio 65" 4K TV / Roku Ultra

Screen Room
Stereo - Pair of Polk Atrium 8 SDI
Emotiva A-150 off Family Room XMC-1 Zone 2

Outdoor Bar
Stereo - Pair of Polk Atrium 8 SDI
Emotiva A-150 off Family Room XMC-1 Zone 2
Vizio 40" 4K TV off Family Room XMC-1

Both the family room and basement are used slightly more for music then movies.  The family room is played in two channel for music but on the more modest basement system music sounds better when left on 7.1.  The Family room is large, about 25' wide and 40' deep and 20'tall.  The basement room is smaller at 19' wide, 35' deep and a 9' ceiling.  

The basement system seems fairly well balanced in terms of the quality of the speakers and components.  I like the not too bright sound of the Polk speakers.  The lower mid-range is a bit muddy but fine for movies and background music for the bar.  On advantage of my basement is that I can keep my tower speakers a foot or two off the back wall.  In my family room I can only pull them about 6" off, (wife).

I am looking to have a place for dedicated critical listening, some place where I can just sit and listen without distraction and I am fine with a sweet spot.  Perhaps my family room system would be the best place for that.  I like the current sound, it images fairly well.  I upgraded the woofers on my old Polk LSi15 small towers and the old velodyne sub is fairly musical.

I have listened to a few more expensive speakers such as the Polk LSiM707, Klipsch Heresy, Mangnepan 1.7 but only in showrooms, and, for whatever reason they did not sound as good as my current family room system.  I'm 52 years old my hearing is slightly diminished, maybe my expectations in the showroom were higher?

My question is this, will spending a few grand wisely significantly improve the sound of my family room system?  If so, is that best spent on upgrading my speakers?  Think the Tekton Double Impacts with a matching center would be a good option?  Would my XPA-2 amp be a good fit for those speakers or would a tube amp be a better fit?

Thanks for any suggestions!  Cheers

[creimes]

Hey David,

Speakers are always a hard suggestion coming from others who for the most part may not share the same likes as another individual, reading what you have typed is you for sure will be very used to the sound signature of Polk. I currently have Polk M20 speakers upstairs where my kids watch TV as I got them super cheap and it's just a system that can take abuse and I won't care haha, one tower has already been knocked over numerous times and has had physical damage to the cabinet.

I recently sold my three Emotiva T1 towers and went with Chane 753 towers for my LCR, in the between time of selling the T1 and getting the Chanes I put the Polk in their place and wow the sound was completely different, being used to the T1 the Polk's were a lot less dynamic and detailed, and a speaker having more detail and presentation than another can make some people think the sound is harsh, I have been there myself. When changing something major in a system such as a speaker it can take some time to get used to the changes.

You mention Tekton DI's which are a very popular speaker and something I have always wanted to hear but into Canada they get very expensive and shipping IMO should be done on a pallet being the size most of the Tekton speakers are. The Chane towers I recently purchased are very large as well but came to me on a pallet by LTL Freight for less possibility of damage. So far I am really enjoying these 753 towers for both music and surround alike and to my ears are the best speakers I have owned to date, the imaging, sound stage and dynamics are amazingly good, but remember this is my room with my gear and my ears. Jon over at Chane has the 700 series out and a new L series as well but both lines have sold out on the first production runs.


One thing I really like about going with Tekton is you can choose what color you want them to be finished in, the Chane 753 I own are a very basic finish but more of the build cost is pout into the sound rather than a fancy paint or veneer finish, but Tekton does currently have a long wait list from what I have heard. Also like you already know most speakers benefit from some space from the wall, better imaging and such.

Chane is a smaller company but has a very good following hence why all three lines are pretty much all sold out at the moment.

If you would like to take a look here is the website www.chanemusiccinema.com/

Others I could think of are Tekton, SVS, PSB, Warfedale, Monitor Audio, Focal, Totem, Paradigm, Dynaudio but most of those brands you will pay higher prices due to many markups and such.

Cheers,
Chad

[rdavidw]

Thanks creimes!

I wonder if it would make more sense to leave my family room system the way it is and move my turntable down to my basement system and make my basement my dedicated listening area for two channel?



I could replace my Polk S60 Towers with the Tekton DIs and replace the Emotiva A-300 with a decent two channel tube amp, something in the $1k range.  Perhaps I could order the DIs to color match my wall paint.

I am not too concerned about possibly diminishing movie playback in 7.1 with the in wall center and surrounds and in ceiling rear surrounds.  My primary focus is music in stereo.

One way to go would be to just get a integrated two channel tube amp.  The problem with that is I still want to use 7.1 for movies and don't want the clutter of two sets of tower speakers side by side.  If I was to get a two channel tube amp and keep the Emotiva MC-700 (which is great budget processor) would that limit the performance of a tube amp in the $1k range and the Tekton  DI speakers?  My sources will be the turntable, a PC with high res music files and a Roku Ultra for movies, You Tube and other streaming. 

As far as room treatments go I am planning on getting a carpet for under the sofa and coffee table for starters.

I have been following Boomzilla and am interested in his review of the DIs and what to power them with.

Thank you for any suggestions!      

[selind40]

I just ordered some Tekton Pendragons....sold my Emotiva T2+ to my buddy.....if I didn't know better, I said you really really like Polk speakers. .  Good luck with your search.....it's all part of the fun IMHO.

[Lsc]

I have Revel speakers in 2 rooms and they are really good. I bought a whole set of the old Concerta speakers used - F12 x 4, C12 and S12 over a few years. I also had the Revel F208 / C208 which I bought new - sold the F208 and got the F228Be new.

For 2 channel listening and home theater the Revels at various levels are excellent. It's a slippery slope though. Sometimes it's better to just keep what you have especially when you have so many speakers from the same brand.

But if you would like to upgrade your 2 channel experience, a pair of Revel floor standing speakers (like the F208) might really open your ears. Now if you can't tell the difference, then consider yourself lucky! No upgrade needed .

[selind40]

Jan 2, 2021 17:15:50 GMT -5 Lsc said:

I have Revel speakers in 2 rooms and they are really good. I bought a whole set of the old Concerta speakers used - F12 x 4, C12 and S12 over a few years. I also had the Revel F208 / C208 which I bought new - sold the F208 and got the F228Be new.

For 2 channel listening and home theater the Revels at various levels are excellent. It's a slippery slope though. Sometimes it's better to just keep what you have especially when you have so many speakers from the same brand.

But if you would like to upgrade your 2 channel experience, a pair of Revel floor standing speakers (like the F208) might really open your ears. Now if you can't tell the difference, then consider yourself lucky! No upgrade needed .

Couple years ago I bought a used ERC-3 cd player off a lady on Craigslist.....her husband left stuff after he divorced her and took off. She asked me If I'd be interested in a really big speaker out in her garage that she has no use for and it's to heavy I could just have it. Her husband had ordered Revel F208 Performa 3's.....one came in with a crack in the back.....Revel sent him a replacement and told him to NOT ship back the cracked one.......Long story short I've got a really big center channel now in my basement that sounds amazing.  I never wanted to spend $2500.00 for one to match it so I'd have a pair.  Maybe some day I'll find a single black F208 performa3 for a reasonable price.

[rdavidw]

Polk headquarters were a few miles from my house back in the day. I do like their sound signature in general. I checked out a pair of the LSiM 707s some time back at a local shop. Seemed too bright for my taste and the low end did not seem as snappy as my old LSi15. That is in direct contrast to what everyone on the Polk forum reports, that the low end is much better and faster on the 707s. I don't think I know anything they don't. There are so many variables its hard to know how it will sound in your set up. I do hear a big difference in my system when I move the speakers a little or change stuff around such as a new phono cartridge or mode setting. I do trust the many years of experience forums like this one can contribute.

I don't want to move my nicer Emotiva XMC-1 (GEN I) down to my basement as its a great fit in my family room setup and I use the Zone II features from there.

Anyone have any guesses on how much of an improvement there will be for music by just replacing my basement Polk S60 towers with the Tekton DI, powered from my current Emotiva A-300 amp and MC-700 processor?
How much improvement from there by also replacing the Emotiva A-300 amp with a tube amp in the $1k price range?
Keeping with the "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link" would there then be a need to upgrade to a better processor from my current Emotiva MC-700? I don't need any more features then the MC-700 currently has. I have a mid-fi turntable and my other sources are 4k streaming and a PC.

Cheers!

[selind40]

Jan 2, 2021 16:10:27 GMT -5 rdavidw said:

Thanks creimes!

I wonder if it would make more sense to leave my family room system the way it is and move my turntable down to my basement system and make my basement my dedicated listening area for two channel?
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I could replace my Polk S60 Towers with the Tekton DIs and replace the Emotiva A-300 with a decent two channel tube amp, something in the $1k range.  Perhaps I could order the DIs to color match my wall paint.

I am not too concerned about possibly diminishing movie playback in 7.1 with the in wall center and surrounds and in ceiling rear surrounds.  My primary focus is music in stereo.

One way to go would be to just get a integrated two channel tube amp.  The problem with that is I still want to use 7.1 for movies and don't want the clutter of two sets of tower speakers side by side.  If I was to get a two channel tube amp and keep the Emotiva MC-700 (which is great budget processor) would that limit the performance of a tube amp in the $1k range and the Tekton  DI speakers?  My sources will be the turntable, a PC with high res music files and a Roku Ultra for movies, You Tube and other streaming. 

As far as room treatments go I am planning on getting a carpet for under the sofa and coffee table for starters.

I have been following Boomzilla and am interested in his review of the DIs and what to power them with.

Thank you for any suggestions!      

Nice set-up......I mean, 8 Kegs with multiple handles.....holy smokes, man.  I gotta tell ya, I am in envy of the beer selection.......what was the original question again? 

[rdavidw]

Yes selind40, the beer and wine making and the reef aquarium play nicely with a good sound system. I have been making beer since the early 90s and the basement bar was a popular place to entertain before the pandemic and is a great place to hide out with the family until it passes.  The outdoor bar gets lots of use too. 

[rdavidw]

Ok - I am leaning towards going with leavings my family room system alone and moving my turntable down to the basement.

Replace the Polk S60 towers with the Tekton Double Impacts.  I will see if I can get them color matched to my back wall and will order grills for them.  Think it worth doing the $300 upgrade kit or the $600 Be tweeter upgrade?

Replace my Emotiva A-300 amp with a Willsenton R8.  Anyone have recommendations on tubes for this?  Perhaps the KT88? Amazon Any other suggestions in this price range?

Keep the in-wall center and surrounds and the Emotiva MC-700 processor and A-500 amp for the in-wall speakers and use the Pre-ins on the Willsenton R8 from the MC-700.

For movies the current system sounds great, I am hoping with these upgrades movies will still sound around as good maybe a little better or a little less.  The $4K~$5k upgrade with be just for stereo music.  My SVS PC-2000 Sub seems like a great fit for movies but not as musical as my old sealed Velodyne SPL 1200 Sub I have upstairs.  I have pulled the SVS further away from the corner and that has helped some.  Should I look at other subs or perhaps just kill the sub for music?

[405x5]

Best “upgrade” advice I can offer is to read up on loudspeaker interactions between boundaries and floor coverings (or not). Also furniture location. Making a room more (or less) live and relocated reflective surfaces makes all the difference in the world. Already appears you have some speakers that appeal to your ears.

Bill

[rdavidw]

Awesome advice 405x5. My dad got a pair of Allison CD-9s and a NAD receiver in the mid 80s I grew up listening to. Wonderful sound!

[daveczski65]

Replace the Polk S60 towers with the Tekton Double Impacts. I will see if I can get them color matched to my back wall and will order grills for them. Think it worth doing the $300 upgrade kit or the $600 Be tweeter upgrade?

Your gonna like the DIs,,just make sure you give them time to break in! About 40 or more hrs. As far as a tube amp,,I wood go with a Black ice F22,Boomzilla here a
Has given them great reviews with his Tekton DI s, I have the upgrade on my tekton Electrons, sound great,the Be upgrade center tweeter I hear is worth it also.,,Good luck in your search.

[ttocs]

Do the fish make you play Finding Nemo all the time? Nice setup you got there!

Jan 2, 2021 19:04:43 GMT -5 rdavidw said:

How much improvement from there by also replacing the Emotiva A-300 amp with a tube amp in the $1k price range?
Keeping with the "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link" would there then be a need to upgrade to a better processor from my current Emotiva MC-700? I don't need any more features then the MC-700 currently has. I have a mid-fi turntable and my other sources are 4k streaming and a PC.

Cheers!

The weakest link is what I can view in the photos, the beautiful but bare floors and walls. The rugs will be very welcome acoustically speaking. The more, the merrier. Tapestries on the walls can help as well. Large spaces can be tough to tame.

A neat experiment would be to get some blankets, comforters, drop-cloths, pillows and such, and just toss 'em on the floor everywhere and experience what a calmer room would sound like.

The tube mono amps I have I built from kits, but you can get them built also. They sound fabulous and easily beat out my Krell amp for holographic imaging and sound so real you can reach out and touch it! Tubes4hifi.com has a stereo amp called the VTA ST-120, and it can be purchased built, tested, and including the tubes for about $1700. Bob Latino is a legend and a great guy. I built my amps getting close to two years ago and I'm still amazed! I stopped shopping for amps when I finally realized that the amazing sound I was hearing was for real, that was about an hour after I started playing music through them. FYI there's nothing automatic with these amps, no remote control.

You can always go used with some great names like Conrad Johnson or McIntosh for a few $$$$ more. Or the Black Ice Audio tube integrated that Boom has written about. Lots of choices.

[rdavidw]

Jan 3, 2021 18:47:28 GMT -5 daveczski65 said:

Replace the Polk S60 towers with the Tekton Double Impacts. I will see if I can get them color matched to my back wall and will order grills for them. Think it worth doing the $300 upgrade kit or the $600 Be tweeter upgrade?

Your gonna like the DIs,,just make sure you give them time to break in! About 40 or more hrs. As far as a tube amp,,I wood go with a Black ice F22,Boomzilla here a
Has given them great reviews with his Tekton DI s, I have the upgrade on my tekton Electrons, sound great,the Be upgrade center tweeter I hear is worth it also.,,Good luck in your search.

Boomzilla sure seems to know what he is talking about.  The Black Ice F22 looks great at $1,700 but I don't think it has a Pre-In option.  My wife and sons use the system also in 7.1 for TV, video games and streaming music.  I am the only one that uses the turntable.  I need to be able to have the universal Logitech remote be able to power on the whole system and change the source easily as they are not very technical.  For simplicity of operation, I would prefer a decent quality two channel tube amp without a integrated preamp.

This Willsenton R8  got good reviews on YouTube with Jay pairing it with the DIs: www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKw07n6qqBY&t=229s
The Willsenton R8 does have Pre-Ins but unfortunately, when every the unit is powered on it defaults to CD as the source and TR as the mode.  I want to have the amp power on and off with the processor which I can do from a powered outlet on the processer trigger.  I may be able to program the Harmony One remote to change the source to Pre-In on the R8 but I would rather not go with that option if I can avoid it.

Another amp that looks similar to the R8 is the MUZISHARE X7 at the same price.   This one uses toggle switches for the Pre-In source and Mode so it should work better to assimilate into my duel use movie / music system.  Anyone have any experience on how this will sound compared to the Willsenton R8?  I do like the looks of the Willsenton better but that is not a big deal.  

If I did a integrated amp with Pre-Ins I could hook my turn table up to it directly and see if it sounds better then running it through the MC-700.  I would loose the sub but that may be better anyway. 


 

[rdavidw]

Jan 3, 2021 19:04:36 GMT -5 ttocs said:

Do the fish make you play Finding Nemo all the time? Nice setup you got there!

Jan 2, 2021 19:04:43 GMT -5 rdavidw said:

How much improvement from there by also replacing the Emotiva A-300 amp with a tube amp in the $1k price range?
Keeping with the "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link" would there then be a need to upgrade to a better processor from my current Emotiva MC-700? I don't need any more features then the MC-700 currently has. I have a mid-fi turntable and my other sources are 4k streaming and a PC.

Cheers!

The weakest link is what I can view in the photos, the beautiful but bare floors and walls. The rugs will be very welcome acoustically speaking. The more, the merrier. Tapestries on the walls can help as well. Large spaces can be tough to tame.

A neat experiment would be to get some blankets, comforters, drop-cloths, pillows and such, and just toss 'em on the floor everywhere and experience what a calmer room would sound like.

The tube mono amps I have I built from kits, but you can get them built also. They sound fabulous and easily beat out my Krell amp for holographic imaging and sound so real you can reach out and touch it! Tubes4hifi.com has a stereo amp called the VTA ST-120, and it can be purchased built, tested, and including the tubes for about $1700. Bob Latino is a legend and a great guy. I built my amps getting close to two years ago and I'm still amazed! I stopped shopping for amps when I finally realized that the amazing sound I was hearing was for real, that was about an hour after I started playing music through them. FYI there's nothing automatic with these amps, no remote control.

You can always go used with some great names like Conrad Johnson or McIntosh for a few $$$$ more. Or the Black Ice Audio tube integrated that Boom has written about. Lots of choices.

Great idea on the room treatments!  I am going to get a large rug for starts.   The basement room is about quarter the size of my family room as the family room has 20' ceilings and opens up to a loft and other large rooms.  I think the basement will be more manageable acoustically and the better choice for upgrading.   

The VTA ST-120 built by Bob for $1,700 looks like a good option.  Would my current Emotive MC-700 be a good pre-amp for this?  Is there a way to easily bias the tubes?  Safe for 4 ohm speakers? 

I will also keep an eye out for some used gear.

Thanks!

[rdavidw]

Jan 3, 2021 17:11:48 GMT -5 405x5 said:

Best “upgrade” advice I can offer is to read up on loudspeaker interactions between boundaries and floor coverings (or not). Also furniture location. Making a room more (or less) live and relocated reflective surfaces makes all the difference in the world. Already appears you have some speakers that appeal to your ears.

Bill

The Polk sound signature in general does appeal to my ears, especially for home theater.  For music, the S60s lack detail and texture for me.  They sound dynamic and I like the overall tone.  (Sorry, I don't know the correct terms to describe what I am hearing).  The Klipsch Heresy sounded too "in your face" to me and generally fatiguing.  The Magnepans seemed to disappear and had a nice mellowness but didn't sound dynamic or have a lively sound.  They kind of put me to sleep ; ) but in a good way.  I only listened to those in other systems, not in my room.   Hoping the Tektons will be the sweet spot between those two.

[creimes]

Really love the room there, and lovely house and just a tad bigger than my 850sqft haha, I have found like many others putting together a nice 2ch setup or room where music sounds it's best is having a treated room or at least some acoustic treatments, my room which serves for both movies and music has been treated with some DIY panels I have built though mine are plain colors you would most likely be better off with some sort of printed or artistic ones which can be purchased as well. If going with Tekton many people rave about using Parasound with them, maybe an amp like the A23+ would be a good fit, if using this system for surround as well and getting more use I'm not sure if a tube amp is the way to go but I don't know a lot about tubes other than owning a tube headphone amp for a while, many others here would have more knowledge for sure.

Chad

[ttocs]

Jan 3, 2021 21:16:45 GMT -5 rdavidw said:

Jan 3, 2021 19:04:36 GMT -5 ttocs said:

Do the fish make you play Finding Nemo all the time? Nice setup you got there!

The weakest link is what I can view in the photos, the beautiful but bare floors and walls. The rugs will be very welcome acoustically speaking. The more, the merrier. Tapestries on the walls can help as well. Large spaces can be tough to tame.

A neat experiment would be to get some blankets, comforters, drop-cloths, pillows and such, and just toss 'em on the floor everywhere and experience what a calmer room would sound like.

The tube mono amps I have I built from kits, but you can get them built also. They sound fabulous and easily beat out my Krell amp for holographic imaging and sound so real you can reach out and touch it! Tubes4hifi.com has a stereo amp called the VTA ST-120, and it can be purchased built, tested, and including the tubes for about $1700. Bob Latino is a legend and a great guy. I built my amps getting close to two years ago and I'm still amazed! I stopped shopping for amps when I finally realized that the amazing sound I was hearing was for real, that was about an hour after I started playing music through them. FYI there's nothing automatic with these amps, no remote control.

You can always go used with some great names like Conrad Johnson or McIntosh for a few $$$$ more. Or the Black Ice Audio tube integrated that Boom has written about. Lots of choices.

Great idea on the room treatments!  I am going to get a large rug for starts.   The basement room is about quarter the size of my family room as the family room has 20' ceilings and opens up to a loft and other large rooms.  I think the basement will be more manageable acoustically and the better choice for upgrading.   

The VTA ST-120 built by Bob for $1,700 looks like a good option.  Would my current Emotive MC-700 be a good pre-amp for this?  Is there a way to easily bias the tubes?  Safe for 4 ohm speakers? 

I will also keep an eye out for some used gear.

Thanks!

I don't know enough about the MC-700. But if it's anything like the UMC-200, it'll be fine.

The bias test points are on the front, just need a inexpensive meter. The bias has been very stable with M-125 monos. 4Ω is perfect, no problemo, rated at 4Ω, 8Ω, and 16Ω.

There are many here in the Lounge that have Bob Latino amps, and they all know way more than me about them, just look at the signatures. I bought mine based on recommendations from folks here. Once I spoke to Bob, that sealed the deal. A more helpful person you will not find. Get the upgraded caps.