DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jan 16, 2021 12:34:15 GMT -5
IMO, the speaker and its intended room could be thought of as one component. Start with those nice linear graphs, if you choose to, but understand that the in-room response will in the majority of cases be dramatically different. And, at the end of the day, most people don’t even like a flat in-room response, as well documented by Harman and B&K. Ultimately, personal preference rules. Root canal or massage. Your choice and your $$$. Absolutely right, although loudspeaker designers design for "flat" response because that is the best starting point to allow the widest array of users to enjoy the system. A wise and good friend of mine once said, "A properly treated room allows you to hear more of the system and less of the room." People really fail to comprehend how much of what they hear is actually the speaker-room interaction and nothing to do with anything else in the electronics system. It is the primary acoustic influencer, and usually the most neglected. |
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Post by leonski on Jan 16, 2021 12:55:32 GMT -5
Best sounding speakers IMO omnidirectional MBL. I like the industrial look but probably not for everybody. As I have said on this forum before, if I had the money and the listening room to handle them, I would own MBL. Crack me Up! Sure, MBL is an incredible listen. Heard 'em in a room I'd judge WAY too small. A big show in a Hotel. But I couldn't imagine staggering out into the Living Room late one night, flipping on the switch and seeing those 'robot looking' speakers. Might have a heart attack. What really got me at the demo were the Amplifiers. Each the size of a Steamer Trunk from a 1940s movie. |
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Post by brutiarti on Jan 16, 2021 13:33:44 GMT -5
IMO, the speaker and its intended room could be thought of as one component. Start with those nice linear graphs, if you choose to, but understand that the in-room response will in the majority of cases be dramatically different. And, at the end of the day, most people don’t even like a flat in-room response, as well documented by Harman and B&K. Ultimately, personal preference rules. Root canal or massage. Your choice and your $$$. Absolutely right, although loudspeaker designers design for "flat" response because that is the best starting point to allow the widest array of users to enjoy the system. A wise and good friend of mine once said, "A properly treated room allows you to hear more of the system and less of the room." People really fail to comprehend how much of what they hear is actually the speaker-room interaction and nothing to do with anything else in the electronics system. It is the primary acoustic influencer, and usually the most neglected. Correct! Easier to identify when you have several systems and they react diferent depending on the room regardless of sound quality related to the components. |
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Post by leonski on Sept 15, 2021 1:22:27 GMT -5
Speakers, IMO, continue to be the weak link and most subjective of all components. I call speakers the strongest part of any system as they are by far the most powerful in terms of "what you hear." So rather then the weak link, I would call them the user's strongest tool for creating a pleasing soundspace.  Problem is? when it comes off the rails......you can end up with a sonic holocaust. Speakers continue to be the most subjective part of nearly any 'serious' system. Cables / Wires may be on the list but unless the speakers are some Very Exotic load, you'll be able to find a number of amps which will drive them well and be nearly indistinguisable from one another. You can have any number of bits of electronics meeting the 'waveform IN = waveform OUT' criteria, (or pretty darn close....<0.5% distortion, say?) but speakers? OUCH..... That's why even though I believe source first, if I'm asked to go shopping for some gear with anyone, I always like to look at speakers / amps as a 'set'... |
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 15, 2021 9:40:51 GMT -5
Speakers? I want the "three Ds" - Detailed + Dynamic + Dimensional. I can tolerate minor deviations from "flat."
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Sept 15, 2021 10:38:30 GMT -5
I really do tend to prefer accuracy - at least in terms of distortion and frequency response. I definitely want a system that will allow me to hear all of the detail that's there in the recording... but I dislike systems that exaggerate detail. Likewise, I want a system that presents me with whatever dynamics are there in the recording... but not one that exaggerates them.
I'm not especially concerned with whether a speaker is exceptionally flat... but I do tend to avoid any that have any sort of obvious "house sound" attached to them.
As for imaging, and sound stage, and dimensionality... I'm actually pretty neutral on those. I've had speakers that produce a narrow sound stage... and ones that produce a "huge holographic sound stage that extends way behind and to the sides of the speakers"... And, to be quite honest, I don't specifically prefer one over the other. The absolute best sound stage I've ever heard was with a pair of Spica Angeluses... although they had quite a few other shortcomings.
I'm much more concerned with how the individual instruments sound than with where they end up in the sound stage. And, when I listen to headphones, although I tend to find doing so inconvenient, I usually consider the difference between headphone and speaker listening to be a good thing.
I mostly listen to modern studio recordings and rock or symphonic metal concert recordings. With studio recordings, there is usually no "original sound stage", so what you hear is whatever the mixing engineer created for you... And, with modern rock concerts, when you're actually there, it's pretty much the same thing... whatever the mixing engineer created for you using the venue's PA system...
So, when you listen to the recording, attempting to "accurately recreate the sound stage of the original experience" is usually also moot.
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 15, 2021 11:37:08 GMT -5
“Accuracy” was always my number one objective. I found the combination of accuracy and cost effectiveness in the Allison:One back in 1977.
The one thing that eluded me until 2001 was subwoofer integration. As a lay person with this hobby (and having other priorities more pressing) it took me that long, along with home theater integration, to have those speakers respond with a subwoofer where they sometimes lacked depending on what room and positions they were placed.
It was a blast after so much elapsed time to revisit my music collection and hear those low passages that were missed until then.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 15, 2021 12:09:02 GMT -5
re: speakers. The key word, which was mentioned above, is "subjective." Buy speaker you like the sound of. This is far more important than any measurement.
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 15, 2021 13:41:34 GMT -5
re: speakers. The key word, which was mentioned above, is "subjective." Buy speaker you like the sound of. This is far more important than any measurement. Amen to that…. A friend years ago was at my old place and he was giving my speakers a listen. In very little time he shrugged it off and asked me….”You think that sounds good??” One mans pleasure is another’s poison. |
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Post by leonski on Sept 15, 2021 14:50:45 GMT -5
re: speakers. The key word, which was mentioned above, is "subjective." Buy speaker you like the sound of. This is far more important than any measurement. 100%, DY. One man's MEAT is another man's POISON. We have all heard stuff we didn't quite think was that hot....and for those who have backgrounds.......at ALL price points. I heard the Focal Grand Utopia.....in what I'll ADMIT was an awful space. It's easy to find 100$ speakers you don't like! That's why you PAY SOMEONE......to build / voice speakers you can trust to sound like YOU think they 'should'.... But since it didn't get over THAT hurdle, I crossed 'em off my Christmas list.......As if ANYONE would get me 180,000$ worth of speaker. Me? I Still Lust After the ORIGINAL Large Advent. Would it still have that 'magic'? I don't know, but I'd love to LISTEN to some in 'good' condition...... I want to Migrate UP to Los Angeles and listen to some KLIPSCH Forte IV. Probems ensue IF I like them a lot.......Than I end up building a Latino amp....The ST-120, probably..... |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Sept 16, 2021 9:01:14 GMT -5
I had a pair of Large Advents... back when they first came out... in fact I had the fancier ones with the real walnut veneer...
I do have quite fond memories of them... especially the bass.
As I recall, they had excellent bass, and the treble was OK, but the midrange was less than stellar.
(The orange peel mid/tweeter was a bit of a compromise on both the very highest frequencies and the midrange.)
Also, as I recall, the tune my local shop always demoed them with was.... Dance With Me... by Orleans...
But, if you're really serious about Advents, you want TWO pairs. 
re: speakers. The key word, which was mentioned above, is "subjective." Buy speaker you like the sound of. This is far more important than any measurement. 100%, DY. One man's MEAT is another man's POISON. We have all heard stuff we didn't quite think was that hot....and for those who have backgrounds.......at ALL price points. I heard the Focal Grand Utopia.....in what I'll ADMIT was an awful space. It's easy to find 100$ speakers you don't like! That's why you PAY SOMEONE......to build / voice speakers you can trust to sound like YOU think they 'should'.... But since it didn't get over THAT hurdle, I crossed 'em off my Christmas list.......As if ANYONE would get me 180,000$ worth of speaker. Me? I Still Lust After the ORIGINAL Large Advent. Would it still have that 'magic'? I don't know, but I'd love to LISTEN to some in 'good' condition...... I want to Migrate UP to Los Angeles and listen to some KLIPSCH Forte IV. Probems ensue IF I like them a lot.......Than I end up building a Latino amp....The ST-120, probably..... |
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Post by marcl on Sept 16, 2021 10:05:00 GMT -5
I had a pair of Large Advents... back when they first came out... in fact I had the fancier ones with the real walnut veneer...
I do have quite fond memories of them... especially the bass.
As I recall, they had excellent bass, and the treble was OK, but the midrange was less than stellar.
(The orange peel mid/tweeter was a bit of a compromise on both the very highest frequencies and the midrange.)
Also, as I recall, the tune my local shop always demoed them with was.... Dance With Me... by Orleans...
But, if you're really serious about Advents, you want TWO pairs.
100%, DY. One man's MEAT is another man's POISON. We have all heard stuff we didn't quite think was that hot....and for those who have backgrounds.......at ALL price points. I heard the Focal Grand Utopia.....in what I'll ADMIT was an awful space. It's easy to find 100$ speakers you don't like! That's why you PAY SOMEONE......to build / voice speakers you can trust to sound like YOU think they 'should'.... But since it didn't get over THAT hurdle, I crossed 'em off my Christmas list.......As if ANYONE would get me 180,000$ worth of speaker. Me? I Still Lust After the ORIGINAL Large Advent. Would it still have that 'magic'? I don't know, but I'd love to LISTEN to some in 'good' condition...... I want to Migrate UP to Los Angeles and listen to some KLIPSCH Forte IV. Probems ensue IF I like them a lot.......Than I end up building a Latino amp....The ST-120, probably..... I have a pair of "The Smaller" that I bought in '82 to use for surrounds. Did the woofer re-foam myself, which was not too hard. Surprisingly good bass, but yes ... colored midrange by today's standards. Also have similar vintage Dynaco A25. Now officially replaced by a pair of the elusive Magnepan LRS. |
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Post by leonski on Sept 16, 2021 15:13:00 GMT -5
I don't know I could find a ONE pair in pristine shape let along TWO PAIR (2) to do the old 'stacked Advent' thing.
If I had 'em? I'd FIRST wire in parallel.....like I guess you're supposed to. THAN I'd try SERIES and experient with facing
one backwards and experiment with relative speaerk phase. Wire 'em +- / +- OR +- /-+ !!!
INTENT, of the Large Advent, as I am given to understand it.....was to get MOST of the way to 'the best available' at a fraction the price.
Thus a 2-way not 3 or 4.
That this speaker is still fondly remembered is testiment to the success of the original design......
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